Train fire at London Bridge (08/04)

[aleggatta]

1K92 was delayed at Carshalton Beeches with a Wheel Slip Protection fault indication, leading to a cumulative delay of about 11 minutes. The train then proceeded to London Bridge, and judging by social media posts from Southeastern passengers, it appears to have been on fire on approach to the terminus. Investigations are underway (obviously) but it would appear the WSP fault indication may be linked to the subsequent fire in roughly the same place. This doesn’t necessarily mean the correct fault indication was shown earlier in the journey.

The WSP fault would most certainly be linked, having seen first hand WSP sensors post any sort of bearing issue I can tell you that it is quite a mess to clean up! '1st gen' 377's (377 /1-/5) don't have Hot axle box detection so bearing failure would only be detected by lineside equipment or physical examination, with the first train bourne indication being the WSP sensor.

 

[Crossover]

1K92 was delayed at Carshalton Beeches with a Wheel Slip Protection fault indication, leading to a cumulative delay of about 11 minutes. The train then proceeded to London Bridge, and judging by social media posts from Southeastern passengers, it appears to have been on fire on approach to the terminus. Investigations are underway (obviously) but it would appear the WSP fault indication may be linked to the subsequent fire in roughly the same place. This doesn’t necessarily mean the correct fault indication was shown earlier in the journey.

1K92 (as with all Southern services to/from Guildford) is booked to be a 10 coach train formed of 3 + 3 + 4 coach units, which was the case today (ie. 2x 377/3 units at one end, and usually a 377/1 at the other). The unaffected country end 4 coach unit has been removed, and the affected middle 3 coach unit + trapped London end 3 coach unit remain at London Bridge awaiting a possession to give space for fitters to make them safe for removal.

Thanks for confirming

 

[RichardKing]

1K92 was delayed at Carshalton Beeches with a Wheel Slip Protection fault indication, leading to a cumulative delay of about 11 minutes. The train then proceeded to London Bridge, and judging by social media posts from Southeastern passengers, it appears to have been on fire on approach to the terminus. Investigations are underway (obviously) but it would appear the WSP fault indication may be linked to the subsequent fire in roughly the same place. This doesn’t necessarily mean the correct fault indication was shown earlier in the journey.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G19559/2019/04/08/advanced - I wonder if the slight delay at Bookham on the earlier London Bridge-Guildford service (1K91) was related to this?

 

[EdChap]

Now if you read Surrey Live and the amazing testimony from a passenger on the train you can appreciate the incident so much more.....

A Surrey commuter on a London Bridge train that caught fire has described how he "almost had to jump over the flames" to escape from the carriage.

Rob Tearle, from Fetcham , was travelling to work on Monday (April 8) from Leatherhead in the carriage where the fire broke out. It is believed that the brakes set alight, with photographs from the scene showing flames originating from underneath the carriage.

Mr Tearle said there was an "oily smell" on the train "all the way" through his journey, and said he heard something "quite big" drop off the bottom of the Southern Rail service.

He added: "It was a bit smelly, a bit like being on a steam train. We must have gone past Norwood Junction and there was a big clonk. Something must have dropped off."

 

[RichardKing]

So, the unit remains at London Bridge today and, according to Southern, should be moved later tonight. Does anyone know why engineers weren't able to move it last night? Are extra tools needed?

 

[aleggatta]

So, the unit remains at London Bridge today and, according to Southern, should be moved later tonight. Does anyone know why engineers weren't able to move it last night? Are extra tools needed?

I would guess that the limited access to the platforms from the road and the required gear(Im guessing its a skate job now) being in Brighton would have been the limiting factor, with the skates generally being brought to site on a lorry. I think only once has the equipment got to site not via lorry for a skate job, and that was when a spare unit was loaded up on depot and taken to site (I think for the very reason of limited road access to the siding the unit was dumped in). it is slightly disappointing, and I would guess if the right people had been able to make the decisions it might have been able to be moved last night, but a lot of preparation would have had to have been made during the day, and sometimes the depot workload takes priority, seeing as the unit was sat in a platform not blocking a junction or mainline it was probably the lesser of two evils to leave it an extra day.

 

[RichardKing]

I would guess that the limited access to the platforms from the road and the required gear(Im guessing its a skate job now) being in Brighton would have been the limiting factor, with the skates generally being brought to site on a lorry. I think only once has the equipment got to site not via lorry for a skate job, and that was when a spare unit was loaded up on depot and taken to site (I think for the very reason of limited road access to the siding the unit was dumped in). it is slightly disappointing, and I would guess if the right people had been able to make the decisions it might have been able to be moved last night, but a lot of preparation would have had to have been made during the day, and sometimes the depot workload takes priority, seeing as the unit was sat in a platform not blocking a junction or mainline it was probably the lesser of two evils to leave it an extra day.

Thanks for explaining
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O97507/2019/04/10/advanced - I'm guessing this is the diagram for the planned stock move tonight. Looking at the timings, I guess it will be a skate job.

 

[david737]

So, the unit remains at London Bridge today and, according to Southern, should be moved later tonight. Does anyone know why engineers weren't able to move it last night? Are extra tools needed?

They did attempt to fit wheel skates last night but one of the jacks failed & the decision was made to leave it until tonight as there wouldn't have been enough time to complete the work without affecting the start up of the morning service.

 

[RichardKing]

They did attempt to fit wheel skates last night but one of the jacks failed & the decision was made to leave it until tonight as there wouldn't have been enough time to complete the work without affecting the start up of the morning service.

Makes sense as extra time would have to be factored in to examine the tracks to check for any damage before the first trains.

 

[tsr]

They did attempt to fit wheel skates last night but one of the jacks failed & the decision was made to leave it until tonight as there wouldn't have been enough time to complete the work without affecting the start up of the morning service.

I believe an axle suffered fairly catastrophic damage as well as the skate issue.

The plan is definitely to move the unit at (very) slow speeds to Selhurst tonight, top and tailed with “good” units.

 

[Expression357]

I believe an axle suffered fairly catastrophic damage as well as the skate issue.

The plan is definitely to move the unit at (very) slow speeds to Selhurst tonight, top and tailed with “good” units.

10mph on plain track and 3mph over points and crossings.

At such speed there’s quite a significant gapping risk.

So needed to make the combined formation long.

Unlikely to go down the Sydenham Corridor as going into Selhurst Depot from the Norwood Junction end - don’t want to gap across the ladder.

 

[Surreytraveller]

10mph on plain track and 3mph over points and crossings.
At such speed there’s quite a significant gapping risk.
So needed to make the combined formation long.
Unlikely to go down the Sydenham Corridor as going into Selhurst Depot from the Norwood Junction end - don’t want to gap across the ladder.

Wasn't it part of a 10 car anyway ?

 

[tsr]

10mph on plain track and 3mph over points and crossings.

At such speed there’s quite a significant gapping risk.

So needed to make the combined formation long.

Unlikely to go down the Sydenham Corridor as going into Selhurst Depot from the Norwood Junction end - don’t want to gap across the ladder.

Yes, likely to run via the Portsmouth Lines and Selhurst station at the moment.

The 11 coach formation should hopefully prevent gapping, fingers crossed.

Wasn't it part of a 10 car anyway ?

Yes, but the country end 4 were undamaged, so they were uncoupled and toddled away yesterday to be reused on applicable services.

 

[RichardKing]

This has brought back memories of a similar incident a couple of years ago, where a 377 suffered a similar (if not, identical) fault at Shoreham. If I remember correctly, the Driver reported dragging brakes earlier on in the journey, but was told to continue.
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/southern-class-377-fire-shoreham-by-sea.152470/

It was a bearing failure resulting in the Axle box exploding and the chevron combusting as a result...

 

[infobleep]

Due to the fire, all the London Bridge to and from Guildford services were cancelled this morning. Would that be due to lack of platform space at London Bridge?

The services from Guildford were 6:39 and 7:12, and from London Bridge, 5:55.

They ran this evening, although one started from Epsom due to a train fault, which my or may or may not be unrelated.

 

[USBT]

Thanks for explaining
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O97507/2019/04/10/advanced - I'm guessing this is the diagram for the planned stock move tonight. Looking at the timings, I guess it will be a skate job.

They made it to Selhurst at 0337 after a delayed departure from LBG. Total journey time 2hr26. Hopefully regular services are fine this morning.

 

[infobleep]

They made it to Selhurst at 0337 after a delayed departure from LBG. Total journey time 2hr26. Hopefully regular services are fine this morning.

I see it was 66 minutes late leaving London Bridge but according to Real Time Trains, assuming it's accurate, it was 116 minutes late at Brunswick Court Junction, the next listed point.

The trains from Guildford to London Bridge ran todsy, abet one was delayed due to a faulty train ahead.

 

[aleggatta]

I see it was 66 minutes late leaving London Bridge but according to Real Time Trains, assuming it's accurate, it was 116 minutes late at Brunswick Court Junction, the next listed point.

That is because it would have been timed for a normal run at line speed, but with the required low speed for the skates (10mph plain line, 3mph points/crossings) there would never be a timing schedule in the system for it, however it would have been planned to take that long, and the planners would worked the route around any pre planned workings.

 

[jon0844]

Got to capture that perfect Twitter moment so that you can get a thousand messages from media organisations asking permission to use your picture/video!

In seriousness however the person talking on the phone might have been calling the emergency services, and eyewitness photos/video can sometimes aid later investigations. That said some distance would certainly have been a sensible idea rather than milling around it.

To be fair, there's probably nothing more satisfactory in life than having a thousand requests to use your photo or video and saying yes to all but the Daily Mail.

 

[Crossover]

That is because it would have been timed for a normal run at line speed, but with the required low speed for the skates (10mph plain line, 3mph points/crossings) there would never be a timing schedule in the system for it, however it would have been planned to take that long, and the planners would worked the route around any pre planned workings.

It actually only lost 10 minutes, overall, on the run, suggesting it was timed for a very low top speed. Could the hour taken from the station to the next junction be attributed to something more operational, such as motoring for a distance but observing the skate/faulty axle to make sure all was OK before continuing on the run (maybe enhanced monitoring of the behaviour of the consist over points etc.)? I speak as a layperson here, so this is only a hypothesis

 

[Skimpot flyer]

To be fair, there's probably nothing more satisfactory in life than having a thousand requests to use your photo or video and saying yes to all but the Daily Mail.

Unless of course, in bending down to get a closer look at the flames, you singe your sensitive bits...
Then, when you explain to the doctor, he’ll say ‘Which station was this? Burnham-on-Crouch?’

 

[TRAX]

Surely you mean Burnham-on-Crotch ?

 

[RichardKing]

Any news on 377 309? Is it back in service yet?