Train Driving in Snow

[MerlinRail 804]

Obviously, there’s a timetable to keep on the railway, but at the same time, safety should come first. Today’s snow made me think of trains and how they muddle through. Are there any adjustments that drivers make to keep maximum safety in the snow? I can imagine longer intervals between increasing power when pulling away, and braking earlier for stations, but what other adjustments are made. Are there blanket TSRs, or is it just up to driver discretion to decide a safe speed? Or is it just treated like rain and everyone carries on as normal?

 

[Sly Old Fox]

In falling snow a train driver must make a full service brake application for approximately 10 seconds every 3-5 minutes, to try and prevent the brakes from getting jammed.

The maximum line speed in falling snow is 100mph.

 

[dk1]

Just additional running brake tests (roughly every 5 minutes) when snow is actively blowing about. Apart from that unless any safety systems are isolated it’s normal running. Doesn’t overly affect things.

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The maximum line speed in falling snow is 100mph.

Maybe because our maximum line speed is 100mph, but I have never heard of any line speed restriction in snow fall.

 

[paulmch]

The rule book is a bit of a light touch when it comes to snow; it only mandates that you carry out frequent running brake tests when snow is falling or being disturbed by the passage of trains to ensure that braking performance isn't being affected.

Everything else is left to TOC-specific instructions. At my company we're required to run at 10mph below line speed and carry out a full service brake test, reducing speed by at least 10mph, every 3-5 minutes.

 

[Snow1964]

In technical terms there are 4 types :

1) Brake rigging, where the brake block arms are links attached to frame (which is obsolete nowadays)

2) Tread brake blocks on arms attached to bogie frames (possibly all gone, but maybe few specialist vehicles still in use)

3) Disc brakes clamping a disk mounted on the axle (most common type)

4) Disc brakes pressing side of wheel (used on light track force bogies)

Of these 3 tends not to be a problem, ice can build up between the pad and disc, but the use of brakes every few minutes generates lots of heat and melts it before blocks of ice become significant. lying snow has to be deep to reach the disc. But as normally underneath train falling snow is shielded

4) The longer arms (and being mounted nearer outside of train) make these bit more vulnerable to snow, than discs between wheels

1 and 2) were prone to wet snow clogging the arms

 

[Unobrow]

As well as regular brake applications as already stated. If the depth of snow is 8 inches or deeper, it must be reported and normal running suspended.

 

[Tractor37]

All trains full service brake application every 3 to 5 minutes observing a reduction of at least 10mph.

Tread brake trains no reduction in speed necessary - normal psr speeds.

Disc brake trains to run at 10mph below normal line speed down to a minimum of 50mph. Below psr’s of 50mph no further reduction necessary.

Otherwise drive as normal.

 

[Efini92]

Just additional running brake tests (roughly every 5 minutes) when snow is actively blowing about. Apart from that unless any safety systems are isolated it’s normal running. Doesn’t overly affect things.

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Maybe because our maximum line speed is 100mph, but I have never heard of any line speed restriction in snow fall.

I think it’s because the TOC’s have been allowed to introduce their own working instructions.
It’s 100mph max at Avanti if snow is falling or being disturbed by the passage of trains.

 

[800001]

New trains like the class 80X fleet also have a snow button, so if it’s snowing, if the snow button is pressed, the train will either one axle or one bogie at a time, gently apply the brake, then do the next axle/bogie etc etc to assist with keeping snow from building up.

 

[Bill EWS]

Never found it a problem. Heavy frost in the early hours was something to keep an eye on and could make for a difficult start off with a heavy freight train or wheel lock when braking. I had that quite a few times over the years. The class 60's were very good at handling those conditions.

 

[dk1]

I think it’s because the TOC’s have been allowed to introduce their own working instructions.
It’s 100mph max at Avanti if snow is falling or being disturbed by the passage of trains.

Fair enough. Wonder if it has anything to do with TASS? There was an occasion where several Pendolinos had outer skins broken due to ice after VT failed to introduce any speed reductions.

 

[muz379]

I imagine that driving into falling snow especially if thick can also be quite disorienting as well so no doubt extra concentration required . And on occassion if snow is heavy enough it can also obscure signals .

 

[DarloRich]

Just drive more defensively & check equipment isnt snow logged surely - you can hardly give it the scandi flick into the corners !

 

[12LDA28C]

Obviously, there’s a timetable to keep on the railway, but at the same time, safety should come first. Today’s snow made me think of trains and how they muddle through. Are there any adjustments that drivers make to keep maximum safety in the snow? I can imagine longer intervals between increasing power when pulling away, and braking earlier for stations, but what other adjustments are made. Are there blanket TSRs, or is it just up to driver discretion to decide a safe speed? Or is it just treated like rain and everyone carries on as normal?

No need to brake earlier for stations, generally snow does not make for slippery conditions. Very fine rain/drizzle is much worse for that.

 

[dk1]

Obviously, there’s a timetable to keep on the railway, but at the same time, safety should come first. Today’s snow made me think of trains and how they muddle through. Are there any adjustments that drivers make to keep maximum safety in the snow? I can imagine longer intervals between increasing power when pulling away, and braking earlier for stations, but what other adjustments are made. Are there blanket TSRs, or is it just up to driver discretion to decide a safe speed? Or is it just treated like rain and everyone carries on as normal?

Unless it’s severe snow fall then we just carry on as normal. Doesn’t really affect us. Just adds a bit of difference to the day.

 

[hexagon789]

Where is that instruction listed in the Rule Book? Never heard that before.

It's certainly in the Scotland Region Sectional Appendix and I understand dates from the introduction of 158s.

 

[chuff chuff]

It's certainly in the Scotland Region Sectional Appendix and I understand dates from the introduction of 158s.

158 75 mph max or 10 mph below line speed ,below 50 mph no restriction.
All other traction when wholly or partially fitted with disc brakes then 19 mph below line speed again no restriction below 50 mph.
This is for scotrail at least

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158 75 mph max or 10 mph below line speed ,below 50 mph no restriction.
All other traction when wholly or partially fitted with disc brakes then 19 mph below line speed again no restriction below 50 mph.
This is for scotrail at least

10 mph below not 19.

 

[12LDA28C]

It's certainly in the Scotland Region Sectional Appendix and I understand dates from the introduction of 158s.

Having just checked, you're quite correct and I believe that's why it was brought in - predicted diminished performance of disc brakes in snow conditions?

 

[Acey]

Can get a bit iffy if it freezes on the juice rail ,been stuck on more than one occasion on the SE network !

 

[driver9000]

Where is that instruction listed in the Rule Book? Never heard that before.

It is now devolved to company instructions. It certainly used to be in the Rule book and is a long standing instruction at the companies I've worked for.

 

[BrokenSam]

I imagine that driving into falling snow especially if thick can also be quite disorienting as well so no doubt extra concentration required . And on occassion if snow is heavy enough it can also obscure signals .

Not as bad as the fog gets I've found. Though not had much experience driving in snow bar once last year.

 

[Stossgebet]

Some modern trains have a 'snow brake'. With this mode set, the train will continually apply brake force to one bogie at a time, keeping them all functional. This takes away the need for the driver to do a manual brake application every few minutes. However, the speed must still be kept 10mph below the maximim line speed (except where the line speed is 50mph or below).

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In addition. This is why the timetable often falls apart. Long distance trains are more likely to lose time in snowy conditions, and will cause all the knock on disruption we are familiar with.

 

[MotCO]

Is there a danger that snow blocks points mechanisms? Presumably, if the points are not fully in position, the protecting signal will show red.

 

[12LDA28C]

As well as regular brake applications as already stated. If the depth of snow is 8 inches or deeper, it must be reported and normal running suspended.

I always thought that was a bizarre rule. Once the railhead is covered, how is a driver expected to know if the snow is 2 inches deep, 8 inches deep or more?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Nov 2024 ==

Is there a danger that snow blocks points mechanisms? Presumably, if the points are not fully in position, the protecting signal will show red.

I would assume so, clearly less of a risk if point heaters are installed and working correctly.

 

[Egg Centric]

However, the speed must still be kept 10mph below the maximim line speed (except where the line speed is 50mph or below).

158 75 mph max or 10 mph below line speed ,below 50 mph no restriction.

Pedantically, this would mean at 55mph you would have to do 45mph while at 50 or 60 you would do 50mph. Is this interpreted literally so that 55mph = 45mph, or is the sensible 55mph = 50mph interpretation used? Neither would surprise me on the railway!

 

[Rockhopperr]

158’s have to stop at Snow Boards in falling Snow too. Couple of them on the HML

 

[trundlewagon]

Pedantically, this would mean at 55mph you would have to do 45mph while at 50 or 60 you would do 50mph. Is this interpreted literally so that 55mph = 45mph, or is the sensible 55mph = 50mph interpretation used? Neither would surprise me on the railway!

No reduction below 50, so if line speed is 55 you only knock 5 off.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

No need to brake earlier for stations, generally snow does not make for slippery conditions. Very fine rain/drizzle is much worse for that.

If it doesn’t affect the braking distance, why the reduced speeds? I would’ve thought the point of reducing speed would be to keep braking distance the same, unless it’s to do with the actual train’s mechanics or something?

 

[Krokodil]

The most likely hazard these days is fallen trees.

 

[MerlinRail 804]

The most likely hazard these days is fallen trees.

Anything global warming related seems to be a rather significant threat these days.