Train driver 'freewheels' broken down train 13 MILES to London Euston after a power cut

[ComUtoR]

Did they coast into Radlet Jn and then accelerate into St Albans or cross over to the slow, letting the EMT fly past ?

What you can also do is compensate for the coasting. If your down on linespeed, you can coast under restrictive and brake later, instead of your normal brake point. Thus, mitigating against the drop in speed. Or just refrain from braking altogether and use the natural gradient as your braking.

Coasting is good because you don't draw power. Regen is good but being told to use the brake specifically to recover the juice, introduces risk. Reducing our workload is beneficial to fatigue management and mitigates against some incidents. I would rather see an encouragement to drive accordingly than to drive to recover energy and to recover the timetable. First priority - drive safe.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Did they coast into Radlet Jn and then accelerate into St Albans or cross over to the slow, letting the EMT fly past ?

What you can also do is compensate for the coasting. If your down on linespeed, you can coast under restrictive and brake later, instead of your normal brake point. Thus, mitigating against the drop in speed. Or just refrain from braking altogether and use the natural gradient as your braking.

Coasting is good because you don't draw power. Regen is good but being told to use the brake specifically to recover the juice, introduces risk. Reducing our workload is beneficial to fatigue management and mitigates against some incidents. I would rather see an encouragement to drive accordingly than to drive to recover energy and to recover the timetable. First priority - drive safe.

Best commentary on here for a long time .....excellent. Give us a blast on the horn next time you see some (volunteer) activity at St Albans Box ...

 

[Bald Rick]

Did they coast into Radlet Jn and then accelerate into St Albans or cross over to the slow, letting the EMT fly past ?

What you can also do is compensate for the coasting. If your down on linespeed, you can coast under restrictive and brake later, instead of your normal brake point. Thus, mitigating against the drop in speed. Or just refrain from braking altogether and use the natural gradient as your braking.

Coasting is good because you don't draw power. Regen is good but being told to use the brake specifically to recover the juice, introduces risk. Reducing our workload is beneficial to fatigue management and mitigates against some incidents. I would rather see an encouragement to drive accordingly than to drive to recover energy and to recover the timetable. First priority - drive safe.

DF all the way, and coasted all the way from Elstree. I have experienced this about half a dozen times in the past year or so.

Agree about driving safe as first priority, driver workload etc. But the sectional running times assume the train is driven in a certain way.

 

[ComUtoR]

Yeah, pretty weird to coast all the way if your losing time. If I was booked on the through platform and on Green then power all the way. I always get checked down for Radlet so I'm coasting by default from Elstree. We have some places where the difference between coasting and holding linespeed makes little to no difference. Guess which way my DM wants me to drive

SRT Vs PDP Vs Driver Vs Planner Vs WTT Vs PTT You can assume the train is driver a certain way all you like but I'm the dude/dudette up the pointy end. It is a circular argument that comes up all the time. I don't have any real solutions or suggestions but the SRT never reflects the reality. A little off topic, for now.

*edit* a minor thought. What colour was the Driver wearing ? Guys and Gals in blue are rarely over the DF side so tend to drive a little defensive. I remember one time, (not at band camp) when I panicked and hit the brake for silkstream.. on the fast ! Ooops.

 

[Cowley]

I’m pretty sure that I read an article in the Railway Magazine sometime in the last couple of years which talked about trains freewheeling the last thirty miles or so down to Euston but I can’t find it now.
Very interesting thread though guys. Thanks to the contributors.

 

[Essan]

Coasting when under power is one thing, but how do you coast when you have come to a complete halt - as stated in the news story? Is the gradient really that steep? That all it takes is to release the brakes and the train will not only move, but pick up sufficient speed that it arrives in Euston only a few minutes late?

 

[Dr Hoo]

Back when I did my footplate experience in around 1974 there were several Euston drivers who had honed their ability to coast long distances on Sunday mornings when schedules often had 'weave time' that wasn't always used and there were very few other trains about so running slow didn't have any penalty.

Bourne End neutral section (north of Hemel Hempstead) to Euston was quite common. Sometimes a locomotive that had been shut off for the neutral section wouldn't power up again.

On the Midland side it was possible to coast from Leagrave to St Pancras (over 30 miles). With a diesel idling the brakes were still kept off, of course. Got a bit slow towards London though.

No radios to tell the signallers what was happening in those days.

 

[HowardGWR]

What could be achieved on the GWML, I wonder? Is it not all downhill from Swindon to Pad? OK, almost flat, but still, down is down?

 

[Nippy]

I've had HEX units coast from Airport Jn to Padd, after they've called to say they need clear signals.

 

[Class172]

I imagine a train that has just passed the Blackwell Summit (top of Lickey) could theoretically travel some distance southwards without power. I don't know the line profile exactly but it's pretty flat towards Tewkesbury.

 

[Bald Rick]

Yeah, pretty weird to coast all the way if your losing time. If I was booked on the through platform and on Green then power all the way. I always get checked down for Radlet so I'm coasting by default from Elstree. We have some places where the difference between coasting and holding linespeed makes little to no difference. Guess which way my DM wants me to drive

SRT Vs PDP Vs Driver Vs Planner Vs WTT Vs PTT You can assume the train is driver a certain way all you like but I'm the dude/dudette up the pointy end. It is a circular argument that comes up all the time. I don't have any real solutions or suggestions but the SRT never reflects the reality. A little off topic, for now.

*edit* a minor thought. What colour was the Driver wearing ? Guys and Gals in blue are rarely over the DF side so tend to drive a little defensive. I remember one time, (not at band camp) when I panicked and hit the brake for silkstream.. on the fast ! Ooops.

Not a bluey!

 

[Sacro]

Although it's downhill from Carpender's Park, it's uphill to get there from Bushey. Not sure how he managed that bit.

 

[Mike99]

This is truly an excellent thread, thank you to all the drivers giving us enthusiasts real life information of what its like, and how you do this difficult job. Its very interesting. Thank You

 

[Silverlinky]

Coasting when under power is one thing, but how do you coast when you have come to a complete halt - as stated in the news story? Is the gradient really that steep? That all it takes is to release the brakes and the train will not only move, but pick up sufficient speed that it arrives in Euston only a few minutes late?

Exactly........from a stand it would be impossible to achieve what has been reported.

That service would have stopped at Watford Junction, accelerated up to about 80mph by Bushey (where it wasn't booked to call) and then probably lost power and coasted. To have arrived only a couple of minutes late would have meant maintaining almost line speed, which is anywhere between 75mph and 100mph dependant on the location.....

 

[swt_passenger]

Just have to hope Chris Grayling doesn’t read this thread, and suggests removing wires all over the place...

 

[70014IronDuke]

I’m pretty sure that I read an article in the Railway Magazine sometime in the last couple of years which talked about trains freewheeling the last thirty miles or so down to Euston but I can’t find it now.
Very interesting thread though guys. Thanks to the contributors.

I remember reading an account in the first 12 - 18 months of electrification into Euston - I suppose somewhere south of Tring summit - of a loco which lost power way, way out of Euston and coasted all the way. At the time, this was novel, of course - I hadn't realised it was so common today.

 

[evotista]

This thread reminds me of the RAIL magazine article about the Day in the Life of the longest Pendolino diagram ...

https://www.railmagazine.com/trains/current-trains/britain-s-hardest-working-train

It"s a good read in total, but the following text extract is of note ....

'Arrival at Glasgow Central is two minutes early. Due in at 1601, 390104 has arrived at 1559, and as RAILalights, Dansky is waiting for us. “It may be worth noting, but I didn’t apply power for the last 27 miles. I coasted,” he tells us.'

So coasting 27 miles into GLC is possible ... I wonder what the longest "Coast" is that is pratically achievable under greens on the UK network?

 

[InOban]

Considering Carstairs is over 200m above Glasgow central, it's hardly surprising.

 

[HowardGWR]

Considering Carstairs is over 200m above Glasgow central, it's hardly surprising.

Romantic thoughts, shades of 'The Night Mail'.

 

[driver9000]

This thread reminds me of the RAIL magazine article about the Day in the Life of the longest Pendolino diagram ...

https://www.railmagazine.com/trains/current-trains/britain-s-hardest-working-train

It"s a good read in total, but the following text extract is of note ....

'Arrival at Glasgow Central is two minutes early. Due in at 1601, 390104 has arrived at 1559, and as RAILalights, Dansky is waiting for us. “It may be worth noting, but I didn’t apply power for the last 27 miles. I coasted,” he tells us.'

So coasting 27 miles into GLC is possible ... I wonder what the longest "Coast" is that is pratically achievable under greens on the UK network?

Coasting Shap to Carnforth is possible. I regularly coast for 20 miles or more on some routes.

 

[DanTrain]

Beatock to Glasgow must be possible, that’s got to be a fair way. Also, what about the highland mainline or west Highland line, I should imagine they have some decent distances on them?

 

[Dai Corner]

Only a comparatively short distance, but I'm looking forward to an IET coasting down Filton bank so they can say a train has gone from Paddington to Temple Meads entirely on electric power.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

On the ECML the approach to Kings Cross is downhill almost all the way from Potters Bar, 12 miles out, though drivers will usually take power on exiting the tunnels where the linespeed increases.

. . . what about the highland mainline or west Highland line, I should imagine they have some decent distances on them?

The descent from Slochd Summit to Milburn Junction (on the approach to Inverness) is about 1250 feet (380 metres) over 22 miles - they don't get much steeper than that over a sustained distance on the mainlines, but drivers still take power through the pass at Mealmore Lodge (where the line begins to swing west, away from the A9) and again to get over Culloden Viaduct.

 

[nw1]

I think the old third-rail slammer 42x used to do this on the South Western lines. You could often hear a sudden 'knock' sound and the usual electric hum of the train disappear, often about a minute before stations. Can't remember where but presumably on a downhill stretch.

 

[PaulLothian]

The descent from Slochd Summit to Milburn Junction (on the approach to Inverness) is about 1250 feet (380 metres) over 22 miles - they don't get much steeper than that over a sustained distance on the mainlines, but drivers still take power through the pass at Mealmore Lodge (where the line begins to swing west, away from the A9) and again to get over Culloden Viaduct.

Have certainly been on services that coasted from Drumochter Summit to Blair Atholl - maybe 17.5 miles. Don't know if they could actually coast further, as each time I have made the effort to notice, the train has stopped at BA!

 

[Elecman]

Presume you could Coast long distances down in both directions from Aisgill summit

 

[xotGD]

I remember a discussion years ago regarding whether or not you could count Class 50s for haulage on a scratching move between the two Exeter stations if they just released the brakes to trundle down the hill and didn't apply power.

 

[Cowley]

I remember a discussion years ago regarding whether or not you could count Class 50s for haulage on a scratching move between the two Exeter stations if they just released the brakes to trundle down the hill and didn't apply power.

I remember wondering that at the time and definitely counting 47258 when we rushed up to Central to get it one day.
To be fair he did open it up to get it rolling...

 

[Boodiggy]

Although it's downhill from Carpender's Park, it's uphill to get there from Bushey. Not sure how he managed that bit.

Capenders Park is 14m60ch from Euston, 13mp is south of Hatch End.

 

[johnr57]

This is truly an excellent thread, thank you to all the drivers giving us enthusiasts real life information of what its like, and how you do this difficult job. Its very interesting. Thank You

+1

to an enthusiast it this sort of intelligent well informed content that makes this forum so worthwhile

thank you gentlemen