Train crew (due to take over from Leeds) left behind at previous stop (York)

[syorksdeano]

I'm currently on a delayed CrossCountry service due to shortage of train manager. Apparently they left him at York.

Fair play to the guy he's walked down and apologised to everyone but how could this have happened?

 

[theblackwatch]

How's he managed to walk down and apologise if he was left behind?

 

[Mathew S]

Whoops! How far did it get before they realised and stopped? Presumably the next station?

 

[syorksdeano]

Leeds

 

[cjmillsnun]

I'm currently on a delayed CrossCountry service due to shortage of train manager. Apparently they left him at York.

Fair play to the guy he's walked down and apologised to everyone but how could this have happened?

The driver walked down? He was brave.

 

[syorksdeano]

Sorry was delayed for half hour at Leeds which is the usual next stop

 

[Mathew S]

Leeds

Less than excellent.

I dont know the answer to this, but I'm assuming it was a Voyager? So who does the doors? You'd hope it would difficult to leave a TM behind if they're closing the doors.

 

[1e10]

Less than excellent.

I dont know the answer to this, but I'm assuming it was a Voyager? So who does the doors? You'd hope it would difficult to leave a TM behind if they're closing the doors.

It'll be a Voyager. The TM gives two on the buzzer after closing the doors, so it's difficult to see how this could happen.

 

[robbeech]

Perhaps they were due a change of TM at Leeds but he was boarding at York but was delayed on a connecting service.

 

[tsr]

Not the first time and won't be the last. We've had one or two threads on this recently.

Some trains can quite easily leave someone behind if the guard (conductor / TM etc.) has a non-interlocked local door from which they can dispatch the train. This can apply to BR era multiple units (such as 455/8s) and HSTs, for example. All the driver may need to do is think they have heard "2" on the buzzer, take power and the train may be able to leave with the local door open and the guard on the platform.

The guard may also be alerted to something amiss occurring on the platform, and think it is preventing the train from moving even though they've given "2" on the bell or buzzer, and yet find the driver is in fact able to move the train. (In this case they should have pushed the bell or buzzer once - "1" is to stop - before making arrangements to leave the train and deal with the issue.

If there are power doors controlled by the driver under instruction from the guard, the driver could close all the doors but the guard's local door could shut as well (for example, if the local door switch is not active at the panel) or, if it is a slam door, it could be pushed shut. The driver, again, may think they have heard "2" and depart with all doors safely closed and interlocked, but with the guard on the platform.

If the train has DOO functionality as well as guard control, the driver could dispatch by DOO method in error, and forget they should have guard dispatch. Admittedly this is most unlikely on XC!

There have, from time to time, also been train wiring and other faults which have caused these issues.

Any of the above can occur quite suddenly and subsequently cause long delays and much paperwork...

 

[syorksdeano]

This is what I was thinking. Is the change of staff at Leeds and he missed the train or is it York and how did it leave without him?

 

[Mathew S]

It'll be a Voyager. The TM gives two on the buzzer after closing the doors, so it's difficult to see how this could happen.

Thanks, that's what I thought. There was a similar case on a Northern (150?) a while ago, also near Leeds I think, and equally difficult to understand.

 

[Mag_seven]

Maybe the TM in question was supposed to be travelling passenger on the train from York to Leeds to relieve the current TM at Leeds?

 

[Minilad]

TM was on a PNB at York and was booked to assist on the train to Leeds then work the train forward from there. There was a late platform change at York by all accounts which made the TM miss the service. They had to travel to Leeds on a following TPE service and take over the service from there.
The train at no point had no TM on board and the TM that missed the train had no responsibility to do the dispatch at York

 

[tsr]

Maybe the TM in question was supposed to be travelling passenger on the train from York to Leeds to relieve the current TM at Leeds?

Actually another possibility. It might be an easier way to explain someone else walking through the train.

EDIT: See the post above. So you are correct. So it wasn't the TM for the York-Leeds bit who was left behind. It was "a" TM who happened to later be diagrammed to work it!

 

[6Gman]

Maybe the TM in question was supposed to be travelling passenger on the train from York to Leeds to relieve the current TM at Leeds?

We used to try to avoid doing that for precisely this reason.

 

[221129]

Maybe the TM in question was supposed to be travelling passenger on the train from York to Leeds to relieve the current TM at Leeds?

Sort of.

 

[Mathew S]

TM was on a PNB at York and was booked to assist on the train to Leeds then work the train forward from there. There was a late platform change at York by all accounts which made the TM miss the service. They had to travel to Leeds on a following TPE service and take over the service from there.
The train at no point had no TM on board and the TM that missed the train had no responsibility to do the dispatch at York

Thanks @Minilad, makes sense and easy to see how that could happen.

 

[221129]

Thanks, that's what I thought. There was a similar case on a Northern (150?) a while ago, also near Leeds I think, and equally difficult to understand.

Not at all.

 

[BestWestern]

Thanks, that's what I thought. There was a similar case on a Northern (150?) a while ago, also near Leeds I think, and equally difficult to understand.

The 150 is far easier to understand; I'd wager it was a 150/1 with a non-interlocked crew door.

 

[221129]

TM was on a PNB at York and was booked to assist on the train to Leeds then work the train forward from there. There was a late platform change at York by all accounts which made the TM miss the service. They had to travel to Leeds on a following TPE service and take over the service from there.
The train at no point had no TM on board and the TM that missed the train had no responsibility to do the dispatch at York

Quite. Can always rely on the forum to jump to conclusions though.

 

[tsr]

Quite. Can always rely on the forum to jump to conclusions though.

Technical explanation, not stating the cause...

 

[syorksdeano]

Minilads explanation makes sense and explains the TM saying it left without him. I was just struggling to work out how it happened. All we got told was we left without the TM

 

[Mathew S]

Not at all.

From the point of view of a 'lay-person' such as the typical passenger, it's going to be difficult to grasp how train crew get left behind. For example, most aren't likely to understand things like buzzers, interlocking, and so on.

 

[syorksdeano]

The thing is I'm just a passenger so I don't know the day to day running of the railway, and judging by the complexities don't want to

 

[Eric]

Thanks, that's what I thought. There was a similar case on a Northern (150?) a while ago, also near Leeds I think, and equally difficult to understand.

I was on that 150 and the conductor had got off via the slam door to push the doors, so that they were fully closed.

As soon as the conductor had done so, the driver was accelerating out of the station with the conductor forced to jump back on at the back or faced being left behind.

As other posters have said - this appears to be a regular occurrence on certain stock like the 150s.

 

[Mojo]

I’ve also known for traincrew to forget they are due a relief and then carry on leaving the relief behind, or similarly pick up the wrong train!

 

[Robertj21a]

TM was on a PNB at York and was booked to assist on the train to Leeds then work the train forward from there. There was a late platform change at York by all accounts which made the TM miss the service. They had to travel to Leeds on a following TPE service and take over the service from there.
The train at no point had no TM on board and the TM that missed the train had no responsibility to do the dispatch at York

Presumably, if the late platform change was so late that even the TM missed the train then most of the passengers must have missed it too !

 

[infobleep]

Presumably, if the late platform change was so late that even the TM missed the train then most of the passengers must have missed it too !

Perhaps the passengers ran for the train as it was a late change, thinking the train won't wait for them, as they don't wait, even in circumstances such as this.

In contrast perhaps the TM didn't run for the train as although it was a late change, he thought the train would wait for him, as they do wait, even in circumstances such as this.

 

[Sean Emmett]

Was on a steam special at Marylebone. Lots of waving from staff on the platform and away we went.

But none of them was the guard, who had to get a taxi to pick the train up at Denham...