Train cancellation due to lineside incidents

[Deltic1961]

Trains cancelled between Aberdeen and Dyce today as a body was found on a roundabout.

I can understand closing the road but the rail line is behind a fence and everything is in a forensic tent.

People going past on a train would see very little so why cancel trains on a busy line for an incident that has nothing to do with the railways.
Loss of revenue for Scotrail too so who makes these decisions?

 

[Dieseldriver]

Only a guess but I wonder if the Police needed to conduct a search on the railway for any evidence?

 

[GusB]

BBC have reported the incident here:

Police probe after body found on Aberdeen roundabout

The death is being treated as unexplained and trains on the nearby railway line have been suspended.

www.bbc.co.uk

Detectives in Aberdeen are investigating after a body was discovered on a roundabout in Dyce.

Emergency services were called to the roundabout near the Marriot Hotel, at Stoneywood Road and Victoria Street, at about 03:30 on Saturday.

Locals reported road closures and the presence of a police forensic tent.

Officers said they were currently treating the death as unexplained. It is not known if the body was a man or a woman.

Rail services on the nearby Inverness to Aberdeen line have been affected.

ScotRail tweeted that all lines were closed.

The fact that the death is being treated as being "unexplained" means that they'll be exploring all possibilities and looking for evidence. If it was your loved one that was found, surely you'd expect the police to leave no stone unturned in trying to find out what happened.

 

[Deltic1961]

Yes, fully agree of course but as stated the rail line is fully fenced off so can't see the relevance of that to the investigation.

Pretty sure the last train service is around 23:30 and the body was discovered at 03:30

 

[skyhigh]

Yes, fully agree of course but as stated the rail line is fully fenced off so can't see the relevance of that to the investigation.

I'm sure they're not doing it for the fun of it. Just because you can't see the relevance doesn't mean there isn't any!

 

[Snow1964]

Only a guess but I wonder if the Police needed to conduct a search on the railway for any evidence?

Probably the question should have been why do trains need to be cancelled for miles, rather than stopped at previous signal, and allowed to proceed under caution to search zone which can be cleared of searchers to let a train pass at slow speed, before they resume search.

Unless there is evidence on the actual rails (as opposed to lying on ground, ballast or sleepers), especially as undergrowth near the fence is more likely to have evidence (if any exists), the forensic teams requiring no trains passing is tad excessive. But sometimes safety is used as a trump card to inconvenience passengers.

 

[ivorytoast28]

Probably the question should have been why do trains need to be cancelled for miles, rather than stopped at previous signal, and allowed to proceed under caution to search zone which can be cleared of searchers to let a train pass at slow speed, before they resume search.

Fenced off areas for railways aren't exactly large with the rails/sleepers taking up most of the space so it would be disturbing a crime scene should the train pass through regardless as it will move things.

But in general it does seem odd that it would actually be part of the crime scene

 

[AVK17]

The railway has been closed on the instruction of the Procurator Fiscal because it is believed that the murder weapon was disposed of on the track. They have to forensically search and recover it in a controlled way and that's what is taking the time. Network Rail and BTP have been pushing very hard to get the line reopened since the early hours of the morning but the COPFS and Police Scotland are not budging. Ignoring them and running trains anyway would be a criminal offence in itself (obstruction of the police or even attempting to defeat the ends of justice).

 

[Llanigraham]

Probably the question should have been why do trains need to be cancelled for miles, rather than stopped at previous signal, and allowed to proceed under caution to search zone which can be cleared of searchers to let a train pass at slow speed, before they resume search.

Because quite simply members of the Police (in this instance) are not aware of all the dangers that the railway has, so can and do do the wrong things, putting themselves into danger. The only way that can be alleviated is to have each one escorted by a trained railway person, and there aren't enough of them.

Unless there is evidence on the actual rails (as opposed to lying on ground, ballast or sleepers), especially as undergrowth near the fence is more likely to have evidence (if any exists), the forensic teams requiring no trains passing is tad excessive. But sometimes safety is used as a trump card to inconvenience passengers.

No safety is not the trump card, it is the predominate card, and passengers would be even more inconvenienced if an incident did take place.

 

[Falcon1200]

The railway has been closed on the instruction of the Procurator Fiscal because it is believed that the murder weapon was disposed of on the track.

Very disappointing, but of course the railway cannot simply ignore the PF. Although it surely would have been possible to check that the alleged weapon was not actually on a rail or likely to be disturbed by the passage of trains, and then carry out the full search between trains?

 

[Darandio]

Strange that we get told on here that they are searching for a murder weapon despite all official sources still treating it as unexplained at this point.

 

[800001]

Probably the question should have been why do trains need to be cancelled for miles, rather than stopped at previous signal, and allowed to proceed under caution to search zone which can be cleared of searchers to let a train pass at slow speed, before they resume search.

Unless there is evidence on the actual rails (as opposed to lying on ground, ballast or sleepers), especially as undergrowth near the fence is more likely to have evidence (if any exists), the forensic teams requiring no trains passing is tad excessive. But sometimes safety is used as a trump card to inconvenience passengers.

You don’t clear a crime scene to allow a train past at caution, before allowing the police back on to tracks.

Mainly because any train entering then becomes part of the crime scene, so it’s a no go straight away.

Secondly the time taken to unblock a line, then reblock will be a long time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2022 ==

Strange that we get told on here that they are searching for a murder weapon despite all official sources still treating it as unexplained at this point.

Maybe because the poster has more knowledge of what is happening the the majority of us on here?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2022 ==

Strange that we get told on here that they are searching for a murder weapon despite all official sources still treating it as unexplained at this point.

Maybe because the poster has more knowledge of what is happening the the majority of us on here?

 

[Darandio]

Maybe because the poster has more knowledge of what is happening the the majority of us on here?

Quite possibly. Maybe the poster actually is the police and wanted the forum to have an exclusive.

 

[AVK17]

Strange that we get told on here that they are searching for a murder weapon despite all official sources still treating it as unexplained at this point.

Yes I should have just said "a weapon".

 

[the sniper]

Strange that we get told on here that they are searching for a murder weapon despite all official sources still treating it as unexplained at this point.

Official sources were saying the Queen was alive until 18:29 on the 8th September, posters on here also suggested otherwise...

 

[Edsmith]

It's certainly not unreasonable to ask questions rather than just assume the police must have done it for a good reason etc.

 

[the sniper]

It's certainly not unreasonable to ask questions rather than just assume the police must have done it for a good reason etc.

Maybe not unreasonable, but I'm not sure why one wouldn't assume it was done for good reason. What alternative reason would there be?

 

[Edsmith]

Maybe not unreasonable, but I'm not sure why one wouldn't assume it was done for good reason. What alternative reason would there be?

It has been known for police to over react in such situations.

 

[the sniper]

It has been known for police to over react in such situations.

It has been, particularly in the case of the locals, but I think it's more unlikely that they'd have shut the railway just for the sake of it than for a reason.

 

[Deltic1961]

According to the news police are remaining on site tonight keeping both the road and rail line shut.

You'd think if they were looking for something they'd have found it by now as the incident was reported at 3.30am.

Does seem a might excessive keeping the Aberdeen to Inverness rail line closed and aso the main A947 meaning a lengthy diversion.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes, fully agree of course but as stated the rail line is fully fenced off so can't see the relevance of that to the investigation.

Pretty sure the last train service is around 23:30 and the body was discovered at 03:30

No doubt the rail company and Network Rail would have challenged the decision as the last thing they want to do is not run trains and have to deal with the disruption of displaced units and crews.

Ultimately though if it’s an active crime scene and they need to undergo a search (someone could have thrown evidence over a fence onto the track for instance), then that’s the way it goes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2022 ==

Strange that we get told on here that they are searching for a murder weapon despite all official sources still treating it as unexplained at this point.

A differences between what has briefed to the media and what is happening at the time no doubt.

 

[Busaholic]

No doubt the rail company and Network Rail would have challenged the decision as the last thing they want to do is not run trains and have to deal with the disruption of displaced units and crews.

Ultimately though if it’s an active crime scene and they need to undergo a search (someone could have thrown evidence over a fence onto the track for instance), then that’s the way it goes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2022 ==



A differences between what has briefed to the media and what is happening at the time no doubt.

There's also the possibility of DNA evidence somewhere between the fence, its surrounds and the spot where a weapon landed, if indeed one was found. If the death resulted from foul play I'd expect all forensic stops to be pulled out, so railway passengers would just have to be inconvenienced.

 

[Ediswan]

Ultimately though if it’s an active crime scene and they need to undergo a search (someone could have thrown evidence over a fence onto the track for instance), then that’s the way it goes.

I do know of one occasion when the police admitted defeat.

Some friends were kayaking down a white water river and came across a police search of the river and bank, suspected murder. Impossible to go back upstream. Getting out of the boats would cause more disturbance than passing through on the water. After some discussion, allowed to pass through. I suspect the police manuals now say to close known river access points. (Maybe they already did but it had not been done.)

 

[Horizon22]

There's also the possibility of DNA evidence somewhere between the fence, its surrounds and the spot where a weapon landed, if indeed one was found. If the death resulted from foul play I'd expect all forensic stops to be pulled out, so railway passengers would just have to be inconvenienced.

Indeed. A crime scene and a search for forensics would take precedent over any industry, transport included.

 

[railfan99]

Indeed. A crime scene and a search for forensics would take precedent over any industry, transport included.

Unfortunately though, the OP was correct as others have been.

In Western countries, there seems at times to be huge over reaction by police and other 'emergency services', who shut down rail lines for even minor reasons that can grossly inconvenience thousands of passengers.

In my city, despite having the largest tram network in the world, police often park vehicles on or blocking tram tracks, but say when asked that 'they'll move it'. No conception that trams can't take an alternative route in most cases, and similarly here, why shut down a rail line for endless hours when surely an efficient line search wouldn't take long?

I bet in many Asian nations to which I've been, there's far more consideration of quickly bringing transport (especially trains) back to normal operation.

 

[AVK17]

Unfortunately though, the OP was correct as others have been.

In Western countries, there seems at times to be huge over reaction by police and other 'emergency services', who shut down rail lines for even minor reasons that can grossly inconvenience thousands of passengers.

In my city, despite having the largest tram network in the world, police often park vehicles on or blocking tram tracks, but say when asked that 'they'll move it'. No conception that trams can't take an alternative route in most cases, and similarly here, why shut down a rail line for endless hours when surely an efficient line search wouldn't take long?

I bet in many Asian nations to which I've been, there's far more consideration of quickly bringing transport (especially trains) back to normal operation.

Securing a conviction for murder requires a scrupulous chain of custody for forensic evidence and that sometimes means an extended process to recover said evidence from the crime scene in a suitable manner. I'm sure you'd be over the moon if a member of your family was murdered and the trial of the alleged perpetrator collapsed because the police did a botched job of searching the scene and recovering evidence.

If your car was parked in a car park and someone was killed less than 100 yards away you certainly would be allowed to just jump in your car and drive away until the police had given up the scene.

 

[Edsmith]

Unfortunately though, the OP was correct as others have been.

In Western countries, there seems at times to be huge over reaction by police and other 'emergency services', who shut down rail lines for even minor reasons that can grossly inconvenience thousands of passengers.

In my city, despite having the largest tram network in the world, police often park vehicles on or blocking tram tracks, but say when asked that 'they'll move it'. No conception that trams can't take an alternative route in most cases, and similarly here, why shut down a rail line for endless hours when surely an efficient line search wouldn't take long?

I bet in many Asian nations to which I've been, there's far more consideration of quickly bringing transport (especially trains) back to normal operation.

This is very true and I recently saw Croydon Tramlink brought to a standstill by a thoughtlessly parked police car.

Maybe if the police gave some sort of explanation as to why the railway line between Aberdeen and Dyce needs to be closed people would be a bit more understanding? As far as I'm aware they haven't given any such explanation.

 

[185143]

This is very true and I recently saw Croydon Tramlink brought to a standstill by a thoughtlessly parked police car.

Maybe if the police gave some sort of explanation as to why the railway line between Aberdeen and Dyce needs to be closed people would be a bit more understanding? As far as I'm aware they haven't given any such explanation.

Seen it happen in Manchester too. Someone assaulted staff in a pub, who phoned the Police. Sadly the assailant found out and ran, the Police came pretty quickly and parked the van outside and ran in expecting him to still be on scene.

Then a tram came and there wasn't enough clearance. One of the officers came and shifted it pretty quickly as soon as they found out though, which was from a couple of smokers outside the pub going back inside!

 

[Deltic1961]

Passed by about 10 minutes ago after work and the road is still fully cordoned off with three officers standing there.

Looks like the Aberdeen to Inverness service will be disrupted for at least part of tomorrow.

All the statements from the police are vague to say the least and don't offer any explanation of what's actually going on apart from an unexplained death.

Do Scotrail recover the lost revenue and cost of replacement buses from anybody or is it just "one of those things"?

 

[Falcon1200]

Ultimately though if it’s an active crime scene and they need to undergo a search (someone could have thrown evidence over a fence onto the track for instance), then that’s the way it goes.

Can't argue with that, but how extensive a search has been deemed necessary, and will anyone from the Police be required to defend their conduct?

If the death resulted from foul play I'd expect all forensic stops to be pulled out, so railway passengers would just have to be inconvenienced.

How long for? The railway is still closed today, well over 24 hours after the incident!

Do Scotrail recover the lost revenue and cost of replacement buses from anybody ...?

Yes, from Network Rail as this is an incident attributable to the infrastructure owner, and will form part of NR's Performance figures.