Train cancellation due to lineside incidents

[railfan99]

Securing a conviction for murder requires a scrupulous chain of custody for forensic evidence and that sometimes means an extended process to recover said evidence from the crime scene in a suitable manner. I'm sure you'd be over the moon if a member of your family was murdered and the trial of the alleged perpetrator collapsed because the police did a botched job of searching the scene and recovering evidence.

If your car was parked in a car park and someone was killed less than 100 yards away you certainly would be allowed to just jump in your car and drive away until the police had given up the scene.

If there's even a suspicion of these crimes, normal practice worldiwde would be for a large number of police to be involved, and generally quickly (though for remote locations, slower).

You don't appear to understand my point about efficiency. A line search is doubtless tedious and needs to be carefully organised and carried out centimetre by centimetre, but many hands, while perhaps not making 'light work', ought reduce the time it takes. Why is the line still closed after 24 hours?

 

[APT618S]

Unfortunately though, the OP was correct as others have been.

In Western countries, there seems at times to be huge over reaction by police and other 'emergency services', who shut down rail lines for even minor reasons that can grossly inconvenience thousands of passengers.

I agree, personally my view is if the police wish to close a line the local police force should be charged for this, perhaps £100-£1000 per minute, depending on the line, may concentrate minds somewhat.

 

[Deltic1961]

Someone who lives nearby posted on the community forum that they had the police at their door saying "a few days" before the road and rai line would open.

I'm all for police doing their job but that's getting ridiculous.

 

[Glasgowbusguy]

If it's a small weapon or even a suspicion that it's buried they could be litterly moving ballast to find a weapon. There was a murder across from me in march and the road in bridge was closed for 4 days

 

[scotraildriver]

Weapons were allegedly thrown onto the line. A full fingertip forensic search of the line is required and the personnel required won't be on site and able to start the search until 0800 Sunday.

 

[AlterEgo]

Weapons were allegedly thrown onto the line. A full fingertip forensic search of the line is required and the personnel required won't be on site and able to start the search until 0800 Sunday.

Thanks for the update. I’m sure whoever the deceased’s loved ones are appreciate the significant effort involved in finding out what has happened to them.

 

[Deltic1961]

Police Scotland have now stated it was a woman's body found and a 22 year old man has been arrested.

The house in question is very close to the railway line, just feet away, but it has caused confusion with them originally stating the body was found on the roundabout.

Quote from the Aberdeen Live page:

Cops have confirmed they are treating the death of a woman, whose body was found in Dyce, as suspicious and have made an arrest. A 22-year-old man has been arrested in connection with the incident.

Officers were called to the scene between Stoneywood Road and Victoria Street in Dyce, Aberdeen at around 3.30am on September 17 where the body was discovered by cops on arrival. Trains have been cancelled in the area over the past 24 hours and local roads are still closed this morning.

Police initially said the woman's body was discovered on a roundabout but in their latest statement have said the find was made at 'an address on Stoneywood Road'.

Police arrest man after 'suspicious' death of woman in near Dyce roundabout

Officers were called to the scene between Stoneywood Road and Victoria Street in Dyce, Aberdeen at around 3.30am

www.aberdeenlive.news

 

[XAM2175]

Weapons were allegedly thrown onto the line. A full fingertip forensic search of the line is required and the personnel required won't be on site and able to start the search until 0800 Sunday.

The key term there being fingertip, as it quite literally involves forensic staff crawling across the entire scene.

 

[Edsmith]

The key term there being fingertip, as it quite literally involves forensic staff crawling across the entire scene.

Does it? At the moment the death is being treated as suspicious, which means it might not be and no such search is necessary.

 

[Elecman]

Can't argue with that, but how extensive a search has been deemed necessary, and will anyone from the Police be required to defend their conduct?



How long for? The railway is still closed today, well over 24 hours after the incident!



Yes, from Network Rail as this is an incident attributable to the infrastructure owner, and will form part of NR's Performance figures.

It should be recorded as against Others and thus not apply to the performance figures

 

[AlterEgo]

Does it? At the moment the death is being treated as suspicious, which means it might not be and no such search is necessary.

What do you expect the police to do when confronted with a suspicious death and suggestions a weapon has been disposed of on the railway?

 

[Edsmith]

What do you expect the police to do when confronted with a suspicious death and suggestions a weapon has been disposed of on the railway?

A weapon shouldn't be too difficult to spot.

 

[AlterEgo]

A weapon shouldn't be too difficult to spot.

That doesn't answer the question.

 

[Bald Rick]

It should be recorded as against Others and thus not apply to the performance figures

The performance regime has to attribute delays to either party in the track access contract. That is either NR or the TOC.

As an aside, the passengers delayed might not care about how or why they were delayed, and will still be entitled to compensation themselves.

 

[XAM2175]

Does it? At the moment the death is being treated as suspicious, which means it might not be and no such search is necessary.

A weapon shouldn't be too difficult to spot.

I was quoting the poster who said that a full fingertip search is required, so if we assume they're telling the truth then apparently the police and/or the Procurator Fiscal do believe it is necessary.

 

[zwk500]

Does it? At the moment the death is being treated as suspicious, which means it might not be and no such search is necessary.

I would hazard a guess that when police are unsure about a situation they assume the worst case scenario until it can be definitively ruled out. Therefore while a incident is suspicious and there is the possibility of a weapon being present they have to assume it's there until it's either found or the search is complete. (Or some other evidence comes to light from elsewhere)

A weapon shouldn't be too difficult to spot.

A weapon, or part of a weapon, could easily be obscured by any of a number of things lineside, from vegetation to equipment. A weapon can also be very small and/or coloured in a way that blends it into the environment.

 

[scotraildriver]

I was quoting the poster who said that a full fingertip search is required, so if we assume they're telling the truth then apparently the police and/or the Procurator Fiscal do believe it is necessary.

There is alot more detail available internally that I won't post here but it is very clear the railway needs to remain closed. Seems to be a nasty incident.

 

[XAM2175]

There is alot more detail available internally that I won't post here but it is very clear the railway needs to remain closed. Seems to be a nasty incident.

Cheers, I suspected that might be the case.

 

[Deltic1961]

The thing in this case though is the constant drip feed of information from official sources and the rumour mill on social media which seems to conflict this.

The police initially said the death was "unexplained" but from what I'm hearing locally it's far worse than that. Why can't the police just be straight with people and then they'd maybe more understanding about why they closed a main road and intercity rail service. To me unexplained could be someone who has collapsed from a heart attack and not what we're now believing to have happened.

Also they originally stated the body was found on the roundabout, but now it seems it was in a house.

They never ever want to just tell it like it is, even when the truth comes out anyway.

 

[Ediswan]

Also they originally stated the body was found on the roundabout, but now it seems it was in a house.
They never ever want to just tell it like it is, even when the truth comes out anyway.

From the photo here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-62946625
I tracked down the location: https://goo.gl/maps/x7UzVPxAkxgs3fPb7

The tent is outside a house, adjacent to a roundabout. I suspect a simple lack of precision in statements made (or quoted).

 

[TheEdge]

A weapon shouldn't be too difficult to spot.

Do you imagine the weapon is going to be an AK-47 or a comically large knife with bright red blood on it?

A big rock could be a weapon, a tent peg could be a weapon, a length of cable could be a weapon, a pencil, anything really.

 

[Edsmith]

The thing in this case though is the constant drip feed of information from official sources and the rumour mill on social media which seems to conflict this.

The police initially said the death was "unexplained" but from what I'm hearing locally it's far worse than that. Why can't the police just be straight with people and then they'd maybe more understanding about why they closed a main road and intercity rail service. To me unexplained could be someone who has collapsed from a heart attack and not what we're now believing to have happened.

Also they originally stated the body was found on the roundabout, but now it seems it was in a house.

They never ever want to just tell it like it is, even when the truth comes out anyway.

Exactly this, if the police issued a full explanation in the first place instead of trying to fob the public off there wouldn't be all these rumours on social media.

 

[DaleCooper]

Do you imagine the weapon is going to be an AK-47 or a comically large knife with bright red blood on it?

A big rock could be a weapon, a tent peg could be a weapon, a length of cable could be a weapon, a pencil, anything really.

...or a hypodermic needle, imagine trying to find one of them in grass, undergrowth, bushes, ballast, mud, etc.

 

[MotCO]

Exactly this, if the police issued a full explanation in the first place instead of trying to fob the public off there wouldn't be all these rumours on social media.

Sometimes the police need to withhold some details, otherwise the local crank may admit to the crime, and unless the 'suspect' confirms all the details, not just those released to the public, the police can rule them out.

 

[zwk500]

Exactly this, if the police issued a full explanation in the first place instead of trying to fob the public off there wouldn't be all these rumours on social media.

Perhaps when police issued the first report they were completely frank with where they were, and local news media has only picked up on earlier reports without checking what the latest situation is? Or, alternatively, the Police might have concerns that the individual responsible may flee, or evidence may be destroyed, if they say 'we're looking for Professor Plum with the Candlestick but don't know where he is'.

Being up front with the public involves being up front with the perpetrator. The correct answer to rumours on social media is for people not to share information that hasn't been officially released into the public domain.

 

[AVK17]

For the record the line was reopened at 14:00 this afternoon.

 

[scotraildriver]

The thing in this case though is the constant drip feed of information from official sources and the rumour mill on social media which seems to conflict this.

The police initially said the death was "unexplained" but from what I'm hearing locally it's far worse than that. Why can't the police just be straight with people and then they'd maybe more understanding about why they closed a main road and intercity rail service. To me unexplained could be someone who has collapsed from a heart attack and not what we're now believing to have happened.

Also they originally stated the body was found on the roundabout, but now it seems it was in a house.

They never ever want to just tell it like it is, even when the truth comes out anyway.

So if the police had said "there has been a suspected murder and we believe the weapon has been disposed of onto the railway" the perpetrator may well have seen this and headed back to move/remove said weapon. There is no way they would be so specific.

 

[Deltic1961]

I don't mean to that level, but why say the death is "unexplained" when it's plainly a murder. Papers now reporting the woman was stabbed and set on fire. That's not unexplained.

Dyce is a lovely quiet suburb and is pretty much crime free. This has shocked everyone here, but again lots of people dismayed with the way the police have reported the circumstances.

 

[Taunton]

The railway has been closed on the instruction of the Procurator Fiscal

Is this the same Procurator Fiscal in Aberdeen who caused the main line to Aberdeen to be closed for months after the Carmont derailment?

 

[Llanigraham]

I don't mean to that level, but why say the death is "unexplained" when it's plainly a murder. Papers now reporting the woman was stabbed and set on fire. That's not unexplained.

Dyce is a lovely quiet suburb and is pretty much crime free. This has shocked everyone here, but again lots of people dismayed with the way the police have reported the circumstances.

All suspicious deaths are treated as unexplained under a pathologist has determined otherwise.