-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Track Worker Killed By Train At Leeds
- Thread starter ukrob
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Crossforth
Established Member
I think I speak on behalf of the forum in that we send our respects to all of his family and friends
Indeed - and to the train driver.
wensley
Established Member
I second the thought already expressed and hope that the subsequent enquiry can reach conclusions of such a nature that such tragedies can be avoided in the future: for the sake of all parties affected.
GNERman
Established Member
I agree, apparently it was a Leeds - Skipton train so presumably a class 333
this is a real tragedy...
this is a real tragedy...
It was 333 , leeds - skipton.
and as far as i know there`s been trainee driving the train...
I was caught up in this today and can confirm a 333 was surrounded by police when I passed. I wasn't fully aware of the circumstances of the death, I instantly assumed suicide, but this is all the more tragic. My full condolences to the family.
Old Timer
Established Member
Naturally condolences go to this poor individual's family.
I have to say though that it is highly probable to be yet another case of Network Rail staff not complying with procedures.
Sorry but there is a continuing and recurrent theme of rules non-compliance in recent fatalities now that NR have taken control of Infrastructure maintenance, the view clearly being that the rules do not apply to NR staff.
Since NR took Maintenance in-house it has become so clear that NR ignore rules that I absolutely prohibit, on pain of immediate discipline, any of my staff to be protected by NR staff under any circumstances. If my own guys cannot cannot provide the requisite protection then we withdraw until this can be resolved.
I have to say though that it is highly probable to be yet another case of Network Rail staff not complying with procedures.
Sorry but there is a continuing and recurrent theme of rules non-compliance in recent fatalities now that NR have taken control of Infrastructure maintenance, the view clearly being that the rules do not apply to NR staff.
Since NR took Maintenance in-house it has become so clear that NR ignore rules that I absolutely prohibit, on pain of immediate discipline, any of my staff to be protected by NR staff under any circumstances. If my own guys cannot cannot provide the requisite protection then we withdraw until this can be resolved.
asylumxl
Established Member
I've got to say. An experienced railway worker making an obvious, fatal mistake. It does seem bizarre.
It's mentioned that he was 60, presumably getting close to retirement. Perhaps it was on purpose?
It's mentioned that he was 60, presumably getting close to retirement. Perhaps it was on purpose?
Sir_Clagalot
Member
- Joined
- 9 Aug 2007
- Messages
- 853
This is the kind of job that once you become cocky and complacent then it WILL bite, and bite hard.
i think it was fatal mistake, from what i`ve heard, he even acknowledged the horn
SouthEastern-465
Established Member
I pay my respects to the family but as a track worker shouldnt he be aware of the passing trains and other dangers?
Or maybe it may of been due to hes age he never heard the train coming eitherway I pay my respect to him and his family.
Or maybe it may of been due to hes age he never heard the train coming eitherway I pay my respect to him and his family.
tbtc
Veteran Member
Sorry news.
We all complaint about Health and Safety rules, but sometimes it's a small price to pay to avoid a situation like this
We all complaint about Health and Safety rules, but sometimes it's a small price to pay to avoid a situation like this
I appreciate that it's very easy to speculate on what happened and I don't want to stifle discussion on any subject. However I strongly object to the following comment;
"It's mentioned that he was 60, presumably getting close to retirement. Perhaps it was on purpose?"
Having worked with him I can also assure you that the member of staff involved was experienced and was not "cockey". In fact he was more safety focused than most!
Failing any other explanations comming forward from the investigation, although this may ultimately raise more questions than answers, then this could just be simple a lapse in concentration. Something that we (trackside staff, drivers in fact humans in general) are all guilty of.
Its just tragic that we work in an environment that doesn't forgive such lapses.
My thoughts are with his family, the rest of his gang and the drivers (I believe it was a trainee)
"It's mentioned that he was 60, presumably getting close to retirement. Perhaps it was on purpose?"
Having worked with him I can also assure you that the member of staff involved was experienced and was not "cockey". In fact he was more safety focused than most!
Failing any other explanations comming forward from the investigation, although this may ultimately raise more questions than answers, then this could just be simple a lapse in concentration. Something that we (trackside staff, drivers in fact humans in general) are all guilty of.
Its just tragic that we work in an environment that doesn't forgive such lapses.
My thoughts are with his family, the rest of his gang and the drivers (I believe it was a trainee)
I have to agree with sfy, we shouldn't make assumptions or speculate on something we don't know.
At the end of the day, the railway environment is an unforgiving environment if we get it wrong.
Whatever the circumstances, it is a loss, not only to family and friends but to the whole Trackworker / Railway Community.
Condolencies to family and friends.
At the end of the day, the railway environment is an unforgiving environment if we get it wrong.
Whatever the circumstances, it is a loss, not only to family and friends but to the whole Trackworker / Railway Community.
Condolencies to family and friends.
Last edited:
O L Leigh
Established Member
It sure is a puzzler. It's not unheard of for a trackworker to deliberately not get out of the way, but equally it's not unheard of for an experienced member of staff to make a silly mistake.
Either way, the authorities will get to the bottom of the matter. Idle speculation adds nothing and demeans us all. Lets not be ghoulish about it and wait until we know more for certain.
O L Leigh
Either way, the authorities will get to the bottom of the matter. Idle speculation adds nothing and demeans us all. Lets not be ghoulish about it and wait until we know more for certain.
O L Leigh
RRV Cowboy
New Member
- Joined
- 17 Oct 2009
- Messages
- 1
anyone ever thought that being made redundant may have been on his mind aswell like it is with all of network rails maintenance workers at 63 thats the type of person that network rail want to get rid of the great mr coucher says he wants to rid network rail of the old BR/EX Maintenance workers CULTURE as he puts it and to just to comment on what someone said above about how network rail workers are not commplying with procedures is utter crap when your stood in the cess watching a train pass at 70 mph and the driver is reading the paper, or looking down at his phone or even got his back turned messing about with something behind his seat or just blatantly not paying attention it not always the trackworkers at fault trains have forward facing cameras to show what trackworkers are doing why dont they have a camera showing what the driver is up to they aint as perfect as they claim to be. i was stood waiting for a train home oneday as a proceding train moved out of the station i noticed the driver was putting his hand in his side pocket to reach for his mobile phone he had his foot wedged on the dead man handle to keep the train moving while he did what ever he did on his phone would he do this if there was a camera in the cab watching him i think not
You sound very bitter RRV Cowboy. And your example doesn't actually work unless you saw the driver messing about with his phone (which you didn't, it is pure speculation what he was actually doing). For example, does the driver have to stop the train to scratch himself?
Before you say that I'm just sticking up for him, I'm not. If you read other posts of mine you will see that I am no fan of industries (including this one) covering each others backs. But you are just speculating.
If a train is going past at 70mph, how would you know the driver is reading a paper unless he was holding it up in front of him blocking the front window? How would know the driver is looking down "at his phone" just because he is looking down as a train passes at 70mph and you are actually BELOW him? Is it forbidden to look down at the controls and various meters?
Before you say that I'm just sticking up for him, I'm not. If you read other posts of mine you will see that I am no fan of industries (including this one) covering each others backs. But you are just speculating.
If a train is going past at 70mph, how would you know the driver is reading a paper unless he was holding it up in front of him blocking the front window? How would know the driver is looking down "at his phone" just because he is looking down as a train passes at 70mph and you are actually BELOW him? Is it forbidden to look down at the controls and various meters?
O L Leigh
Established Member
Oh lord. I had hoped we wouldn't get this.
Yes, OK. Drivers are not perfect. To put the legit side, sometimes we have to take our eyes off the road to check our schedule cards and timings, or to check the radio has changed areas correctly, or adjust the heating or ventilation, or the seat, or check a potential fault indication. Consequently, just every now and again, we may miss something as a result.
Then again, are all "tango's" as squeaky clean? Do they all acknowledge a driver's warning? Do they move to or stay in a position of safety? Do they even look over their shoulders to see where the train is approaching from? Do they make themselves conspicuous by standing in plain sight and not hiding behind boxes?
Neither side has the moral high ground, so bickering like this is pointless. I've seen and heard of some pretty crazy things that some of our boys in orange have done and am perfectly well aware of the sorts of things that some drivers get up to in the cab.
The front-facing camera is your friend as much as it is mine. If it shows a "tango" in plain sight and the OTMR shows that the driver did not sound the horn or apply the brake, there will be awkward questions to be asked. Mobile phone records will be obtained and scrutinised. It may not bring the "tango" back, but a driver in such a situation could find himself looking at prison time for manslaughter.
I have already said, as have others, that idle speculation is not required. The causes of this fatality will be investigated and discovered.
O L Leigh
Yes, OK. Drivers are not perfect. To put the legit side, sometimes we have to take our eyes off the road to check our schedule cards and timings, or to check the radio has changed areas correctly, or adjust the heating or ventilation, or the seat, or check a potential fault indication. Consequently, just every now and again, we may miss something as a result.
Then again, are all "tango's" as squeaky clean? Do they all acknowledge a driver's warning? Do they move to or stay in a position of safety? Do they even look over their shoulders to see where the train is approaching from? Do they make themselves conspicuous by standing in plain sight and not hiding behind boxes?
Neither side has the moral high ground, so bickering like this is pointless. I've seen and heard of some pretty crazy things that some of our boys in orange have done and am perfectly well aware of the sorts of things that some drivers get up to in the cab.
The front-facing camera is your friend as much as it is mine. If it shows a "tango" in plain sight and the OTMR shows that the driver did not sound the horn or apply the brake, there will be awkward questions to be asked. Mobile phone records will be obtained and scrutinised. It may not bring the "tango" back, but a driver in such a situation could find himself looking at prison time for manslaughter.
I have already said, as have others, that idle speculation is not required. The causes of this fatality will be investigated and discovered.
O L Leigh
royaloak
Established Member
RRVcowboy, fail the drivers assessments did we?
I have never read such a bull**** first post, if a track-worker gets run over are you trying to say the driver should have swerved when he saw them there? I know sometimes drivers don't give the road 100% attention but as for your "reading the newspaper" line goes, have you actually SEEN it or are you just surmising thats what the driver is doing if he is looking down!
i have lost count of the number of times P-Way staff were effectively hiding behind tunnels with their backs to me with no look out etc, do you want us to blow up when we are 10ft away at 60mph and deafen them or just whisk past and hope they don't step back, posts like yours in a thread where some-one has lost his life are sick in the extreme,I hope you are happy with yourself!
This train was being used by the training school with a trainee driving so do you think that they might be sticking to the rules a bit.
I have never read such a bull**** first post, if a track-worker gets run over are you trying to say the driver should have swerved when he saw them there? I know sometimes drivers don't give the road 100% attention but as for your "reading the newspaper" line goes, have you actually SEEN it or are you just surmising thats what the driver is doing if he is looking down!
i have lost count of the number of times P-Way staff were effectively hiding behind tunnels with their backs to me with no look out etc, do you want us to blow up when we are 10ft away at 60mph and deafen them or just whisk past and hope they don't step back, posts like yours in a thread where some-one has lost his life are sick in the extreme,I hope you are happy with yourself!
This train was being used by the training school with a trainee driving so do you think that they might be sticking to the rules a bit.
90019
Established Member
That was my first thought on reading his post.
Maybe he's just seen O L's avatar?
the sniper
Established Member
- Joined
- 4 Sep 2007
- Messages
- 3,498
Unless your suggesting it was suicide then you could equally argue that he might have been thinking about the X Factor, the fall of the British Empire, Harry Potter, Gail Porter or what he was going to have for dinner that night! He could have been thinking about anything, though he was most probably focusing on the task in hand and suffered a tragic lapse in concentration. To politicise the poor guys death is bad form on your part chap, especially as we've already seen that people who know him have been reading this thread.
Just to touch on your attack on train drivers, I've never personally seen a driver do any of those things while their train is in motion. Though I don't work on the railways at the moment, in my time on this earth I've spent a heck of a lot of time around the railways, so if it was as bigger problem as you make out then I'm sure I would have encountered it at least once. Also, I've read quite a lot of RAIB reports over the last two years, in the majority of cases involving near misses, injuries or fatalities to track workers the reports normally state that the driver had acted properly (sounded horn appropriately, braked ect) with fault being placed on signallers or, more often, the track workers themselves...
royaloak
Established Member
Old Timer
Established Member
RRV
Your post on here is neither constructive nor welcome.
The "Deadman's" handle that you saw a Driver's foot wedged against has been long gone. It's actually been a pedal for many, many years. UNless a Driver was some sort of contortionist it is all but impossible for him to put his feet up as you describe.
Your comment denying that network Rail trackworkers are not complying with the rules is, to quote yourself, "absolute crap" and suggests little if any experience ojn the track.
Of course were you really to be an RRV operator then of course you above most would know this to be the case.
Your post on here is neither constructive nor welcome.
The "Deadman's" handle that you saw a Driver's foot wedged against has been long gone. It's actually been a pedal for many, many years. UNless a Driver was some sort of contortionist it is all but impossible for him to put his feet up as you describe.
Your comment denying that network Rail trackworkers are not complying with the rules is, to quote yourself, "absolute crap" and suggests little if any experience ojn the track.
Of course were you really to be an RRV operator then of course you above most would know this to be the case.
I'm getting a bit disheartened at this thread.
As a trackworker I have seen SOME fellow trackworkers do stupid, if not reckless things. I'll even admit to doing some stupid things myself in the past.
I've also witnessed drivers on the phone, not sounding the horn and on one occasion i was even passed by a train driven by a newspaper.
The point I was trying to make is that all people are fallible. Sometimes people just have a "moments".
Its the same as when you're driving down the motorway and you can't remember the previous couple of minutes, the same reason when making tea, you put the teabags in the fridge instead of the milk.
I've no idea exactly what happened in this instance and probably never will. All i do know is it that it was a tragedic event for all involved.
As a trackworker I have seen SOME fellow trackworkers do stupid, if not reckless things. I'll even admit to doing some stupid things myself in the past.
I've also witnessed drivers on the phone, not sounding the horn and on one occasion i was even passed by a train driven by a newspaper.
The point I was trying to make is that all people are fallible. Sometimes people just have a "moments".
Its the same as when you're driving down the motorway and you can't remember the previous couple of minutes, the same reason when making tea, you put the teabags in the fridge instead of the milk.
I've no idea exactly what happened in this instance and probably never will. All i do know is it that it was a tragedic event for all involved.
I'm not a moderator on this forum but is this really an appropriate discussion to be having on a thread about a mans death, where he has been hit by a trainee driver and "senior" driver on the approaches to a major station? There is a time and a place to thrash this out over this incident. It will be at a future date at
The Wharf
Stores Road
Derby
DE21 4BA
Surely discussion unrelated to this incident should be removed and placed elsewhere. I have a feeling that someone is going to put their foot (or their job) in it.
The Wharf
Stores Road
Derby
DE21 4BA
Surely discussion unrelated to this incident should be removed and placed elsewhere. I have a feeling that someone is going to put their foot (or their job) in it.
SFY, again you are right!!!
To post some of these comments on here is wrong beyond belief. At the end of the day, a person has died for what ever reason, by whatever train, driven by whoever. No one can say that at some point in the day they don't have momentary lapses of concentration and like I previously posted, these can prove fatal whether on the Rail or Road or even at home.
As a trackworker myself, I like others have all seen things that shouldn't have been done by both "Tangos" and Drivers and RRV Operators, here and now is not the time to slate, point fingers or sumize at the reasons for this.
Gile01
To post some of these comments on here is wrong beyond belief. At the end of the day, a person has died for what ever reason, by whatever train, driven by whoever. No one can say that at some point in the day they don't have momentary lapses of concentration and like I previously posted, these can prove fatal whether on the Rail or Road or even at home.
As a trackworker myself, I like others have all seen things that shouldn't have been done by both "Tangos" and Drivers and RRV Operators, here and now is not the time to slate, point fingers or sumize at the reasons for this.
Gile01
RRV, i don`t think your post is appropriate.
trainee that was driving the train is in early 20s ( apparently he was one of the best on a course), there had to be dtm on board and train had just left leeds station, so probably the speed was roughly 30-40 mph.
so i oppose all the comments u`ve made. he didn`t read newspaper, play with mobile or even scratch his back. he sounded horn and done everything he was supposed to do, because, as you can imagine, you do everything by the book if you have manager in front cab!
trainee that was driving the train is in early 20s ( apparently he was one of the best on a course), there had to be dtm on board and train had just left leeds station, so probably the speed was roughly 30-40 mph.
so i oppose all the comments u`ve made. he didn`t read newspaper, play with mobile or even scratch his back. he sounded horn and done everything he was supposed to do, because, as you can imagine, you do everything by the book if you have manager in front cab!
- Status