Track redoubling & other projects in Wales

[davetheguard]

Having just returned from my first journey along the superbly scenic Cambrian Coast Line for about thirty years (why did I leave it so long?), thoughts turned to current developments in Wales.

Is the proposed hourly frequency to Aberystwyth still on the cards, and if so, when is it expected to start? The new loop at Dovey Junction was looking very rusty, although the redoubled Fron to Welshpool section looks like it has had some use.

I know that the main line from Swansea to Llanelli has now also been redoubled and in regular use, but the other major redoubling project seems to have gone very quiet: Wrexham to Chester. Does anyone know if physical work has started yet?

Then there's the new station at Energlyn north of Caerphilly, South Wales re-signalling, and the associated extra passing loop in the Valleys to permit a doubling of frequency to Merthyr.

Does anyone have the latest news on any of these Welsh projects, or of any that I've missed out?

 

[Rhydgaled]

Having just returned from my first journey along the superbly scenic Cambrian Coast Line for about thirty years (why did I leave it so long?), thoughts turned to current developments in Wales.

Is the proposed hourly frequency to Aberystwyth still on the cards, and if so, when is it expected to start? The new loop at Dovey Junction was looking very rusty, although the redoubled Fron to Welshpool section looks like it has had some use.

I know that the main line from Swansea to Llanelli has now also been redoubled and in regular use, but the other major redoubling project seems to have gone very quiet: Wrexham to Chester. Does anyone know if physical work has started yet?

Then there's the new station at Energlyn north of Caerphilly, South Wales re-signalling, and the associated extra passing loop in the Valleys to permit a doubling of frequency to Merthyr.

Does anyone have the latest news on any of these Welsh projects, or of any that I've missed out?

Cambrian main line hourly service is, I think, still on the cards, but heavily delayed from the published 'by 2011' start date. It has been reported on this fourm that linespeed changes (mostly increases I surmise) are being undertaken on the Cambrian line to allow trains to get between the loops quicker so that a reliable hourly timetable can be operated (ERTMS had some side effects that meant, while the loops would have allowed an hourly service without the linespeed works, the timetable could have collaspsed too easily if anything got delayed). Maybe the hourly service will finally arrive in 2014/2015, we can only guess.

The redoubled line between Llanelli and Swansea will be used to allow more trains to call at Gowerton from the May 2013 timetable (can't remember the start date). To my suprise, I think there are still some ATW services that won't call and the ones that do are still only on a request basis. Strange.

Wrexham-Chester I think was only ever going to be a partial redoubling. I didn't notice any redoubling work underway on the section when I went to the Llangollen railway the other weekend.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Having just returned from my first journey along the superbly scenic Cambrian Coast Line for about thirty years (why did I leave it so long?), thoughts turned to current developments in Wales.

Is the proposed hourly frequency to Aberystwyth still on the cards, and if so, when is it expected to start? The new loop at Dovey Junction was looking very rusty, although the redoubled Fron to Welshpool section looks like it has had some use.

I know that the main line from Swansea to Llanelli has now also been redoubled and in regular use, but the other major redoubling project seems to have gone very quiet: Wrexham to Chester. Does anyone know if physical work has started yet?

Then there's the new station at Energlyn north of Caerphilly, South Wales re-signalling, and the associated extra passing loop in the Valleys to permit a doubling of frequency to Merthyr.

Does anyone have the latest news on any of these Welsh projects, or of any that I've missed out?

Tha last down goes over the relaid section south of Welshpool but everything else uses the up formation. Nothing is scheduled to use dyfi Jnc loop. The whole cambrian hourly service has been a farce for years atw are saying there fed up of providing timetable options to welsh government whereas welsh governments rail unit have denied even seeing any!

 

[TDK]

Having just returned from my first journey along the superbly scenic Cambrian Coast Line for about thirty years (why did I leave it so long?), thoughts turned to current developments in Wales.

Is the proposed hourly frequency to Aberystwyth still on the cards, and if so, when is it expected to start? The new loop at Dovey Junction was looking very rusty, although the redoubled Fron to Welshpool section looks like it has had some use.

I know that the main line from Swansea to Llanelli has now also been redoubled and in regular use, but the other major redoubling project seems to have gone very quiet: Wrexham to Chester. Does anyone know if physical work has started yet?

Then there's the new station at Energlyn north of Caerphilly, South Wales re-signalling, and the associated extra passing loop in the Valleys to permit a doubling of frequency to Merthyr.

Does anyone have the latest news on any of these Welsh projects, or of any that I've missed out?

Dave, just to let you know there is a big chunk of Wales North of Cardiff you know and some good projects going on in the forgotton land as well

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Wrexham-Chester I think was only ever going to be a partial redoubling. I didn't notice any redoubling work underway on the section when I went to the Llangollen railway the other weekend.

Route upgrade Shrewsbury-Wrexham starts this summer, followed by the Wrexham-Saltney Jn redoubling (except over the A483 bridge at Gresford and down Rossett bank) in 2014/15.

 

[krus_aragon]

Then there's the new station at Energlyn north of Caerphilly, South Wales re-signalling, and the associated extra passing loop in the Valleys to permit a doubling of frequency to Merthyr.

I think you'll find that's doubling of frequency to Rhymney: Merthyr's already half-hourly. The loop's intended for Tir-Phil.

 

[anthony263]

Even if the passing loop is installed at Tir-Phil I cant see the Rhymney service going half hourly til at least atw get additional rolling stock. This could be by short-forming some services or hiring in trains (Rhymney loco hauled again anyone?)

 

[TDK]

Route upgrade Shrewsbury-Wrexham starts this summer, followed by the Wrexham-Saltney Jn redoubling (except over the A483 bridge at Gresford and down Rossett bank) in 2014/15.

Is the doubling going to only extend from Rossett to Saltney Junction with a single line remaining up to Wrexham North Junction?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Is the doubling going to only extend from Rossett to Saltney Junction with a single line remaining up to Wrexham North Junction?

Yes that what NR put through grip and Welsh Government has agreed to fund.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is the doubling going to only extend from Rossett to Saltney Junction with a single line remaining up to Wrexham North Junction?

According to the NR report to the WG, the single/double junction at Wrexham North will be moved northwards towards Gresford, but not beyond the A483 bridge.
I think the linespeed will be 90 north of Rossett and 75 elsewhere (and over the new junctions).
It's part of a "North-South Wales Journey Time Improvements" plan which includes Shrewsbury-Wrexham upgrade and some resignalling in the Marches and on Anglesey.

 

[The Planner]

Some re-signalling? plans I have seen basically close all the boxes between Shrewsbury and Newport.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Some re-signalling? plans I have seen basically close all the boxes between Shrewsbury and Newport.

Yes I have now found the crucial document: http://wales.gov.uk/docs/det/policy/120119northsouthreport.pdf

1. Line speed improvements between Saltney Junction and Chester.
2. Increased line speed between Gobowen and Shrewsbury
3. Redoubling 7 miles at the northern and southern ends of the 9. 5 miles of single line railway between
Chester (Saltney Junction) and Wrexham
4. Creation of additional signalling sections between Wrexham and Shrewsbury.
5. Creation of an additional signalling section between Valley and Gaerwen on the North Wales line on
the Isle of Anglesey.

More signals Shrewsbury-Wrexham but nothing in the Marches.

 

[PHILIPE]

Gresford Bank would probably be a too expensive and immense infrastructure project to do. The line was prone to subsidence years ago.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Gresford Bank would probably be a too expensive and immense infrastructure project to do. The line was prone to subsidence years ago.

It's the bridge over the A483 dual carriageway which was built only wide enough for one track that is the biggest obstacle.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's the bridge over the A483 dual carriageway which was built only wide enough for one track that is the biggest obstacle.

And yet, if you dig down far enough into NR's plans, you find that the similar bridge on the A46 at Kenilworth is to be replaced when they redouble Leamington-Coventry.
No doubt it costs more, but it is a busier and more strategic route (electric spine and all that).
There will still be a short single track section there too, but north of Kenilworth.

 

[The Planner]

It still isn't decided what will be re-doubled on Leamington - Cov as the train spec isn't finalised. It could be all of it, or just strategic bits.

 

[Eagle]

It still isn't decided what will be re-doubled on Leamington - Cov as the train spec isn't finalised. It could be all of it, or just strategic bits.

If you'll indulge my pedantry, not all of it is redoubling, as there are parts of the line that have never been double track.

 

[Kettledrum]

It still isn't decided what will be re-doubled on Leamington - Cov as the train spec isn't finalised. It could be all of it, or just strategic bits.

Given the huge growth that we're seeing on the railways, it would be a real shame if we repeat the mistakes of the past and don't do the job properly.

This means future proofing. If double track structures are not put in place at the start, it costs loads more to put them in later and causes lots of future disruption.

- so please no more single track structures.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Given the huge growth that we're seeing on the railways, it would be a real shame if we repeat the mistakes of the past and don't do the job properly.

This means future proofing. If double track structures are not put in place at the start, it costs loads more to put them in later and causes lots of future disruption.

- so please no more single track structures.

This has to be balanced against the extra cost of double tracking which could mean the project not happening at all. We don't have an unlimited pot of money.

 

[Gareth Marston]

This has to be balanced against the extra cost of double tracking which could mean the project not happening at all. We don't have an unlimited pot of money.

I had a quick flick through NR's GRIP 2 report on creating a passenger station at Hirwaun and upgrading the line from Aberdare to Tower Colliery for passenger operations I was somewhat taken aback at the £16 million price tag. There's still huge issues with NR and cost.

 

[The Planner]

I suspect it is the risk factor, probably 50%, bumping that up.

 

[Kettledrum]

This has to be balanced against the extra cost of double tracking which could mean the project not happening at all. We don't have an unlimited pot of money.

Agree we don't have any endless pot of money, but we need to make sensible long term decisions. If the line is to be built in between 2 existing stations on the current rail network, the line could see much more use, and therefore generate much more income than a single track (e.g. diversions, and more long distance services).

If the line is a branch at the end of a quieter route, with limited scope to expand passenger numbers, freight or diversionary purposes, then single track is probably fine.

All two often though, double tracks have been removed in the past, and now (in a different era) these cause operational problems or limitations.

 

[StupidQuestion]

How much of the line is doubled between Machynlleth and Shrewsbury? Is it just passing loops or are there some longer stretches? Also, are there any long term plans to double most/all of it? Would make a big difference to have more frequent and faster services. A couple of trains a day from Aberystwyth continuing from Birmingham International on to London would be ideal. Lots of people travelling with luggage take the bus (even though it is a few hours longer) so they don't have to haul their luggage around New Street. Could they be combined (not sure of the term) with a London to Birmingham service somehow?
Cheers!

 

[edwin_m]

I believe the bridge over the A483, and the bridge under it further down the line, couldn't be doubled within the funding available. As it's possible to produce a timetable that doesn't need trains to pass each other near these bridges then they will be left as they are. This does of course create some performance risk!

 

[The Planner]

How much of the line is doubled between Machynlleth and Shrewsbury? Is it just passing loops or are there some longer stretches? Also, are there any long term plans to double most/all of it? Would make a big difference to have more frequent and faster services. A couple of trains a day from Aberystwyth continuing from Birmingham International on to London would be ideal. Lots of people travelling with luggage take the bus (even though it is a few hours longer) so they don't have to haul their luggage around New Street. Could they be combined (not sure of the term) with a London to Birmingham service somehow?
Cheers!

Falling into the trap of "we must re-double all of it!!". No you don't, you re-double what you need to provide the service level. As has been mentioned before, there is enough to have an hourly there now, it would just fall to pieces as soon as someone farted in the wrong direction. Don't get started on the extensions to London, that will really get some going on here!

 

[StupidQuestion]

Falling into the trap of "we must re-double all of it!!". No you don't, you re-double what you need to provide the service level. As has been mentioned before, there is enough to have an hourly there now, it would just fall to pieces as soon as someone farted in the wrong direction. Don't get started on the extensions to London, that will really get some going on here!

I didn't say anything 'must' me done. Just asked if there were any long term plans to do more redoubling etc. The current service frequency and speed is a bit ridiculous (you can easily beat the train by car despite a lot of twisty roads and traffic in Newtown) and it would be nice to hear it may one day be improved.

 

[The Planner]

In a word, no.

 

[a good off]

Some re-signalling? plans I have seen basically close all the boxes between Shrewsbury and Newport.

I've seen those plans too. Those dates are very aspirational and offer no particular operating benefits to the train operators during the day...

 

[The Informer]

 

[The Planner]

I've seen those plans too. Those dates are very aspirational and offer no particular operating benefits to the train operators during the day...

Would have to agree, it is all two aspect and I can't see any massive improvement in capacity.