TPE going down the tubes again?

[trainophile]

Just looking at today’s Journey Check page and there are several cancellations. Granted not in the hundreds as per the worst of times, but what grinds my gears is that they are still using “due to a short notice change to the timetable” as their excuse… sorry I mean reason.

I’d hoped and assumed we had moved on from that. Wasn’t acceptable then and isn’t now. We’re not morons and can handle disruption better if we know the genuine reason.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Yet despite this, some trains are still 3 car vice 6!

 

[185]

Noticed a large number the other day and on clicking one late evening train - 'due to a fault on this train' traced it back to it's previous journey, also fault on a train, and so on, so forth on five other journeys... it didn't even leave the depot at 5am. Like the old TPE, they're again making excuses for trains not to run - engineering work in Leeds, but the line was fully open Huddersfield-Manchester-Liverpool - used as a reason to remove 50% of the service, and run ram-packed hourly trains.

Behind closed doors, I hear there's still problems caused in 2014 under Nick Donovan when I hear various depots were told "you'll no longer sign...." leaving major depots not signing the routes they'd signed since the days of Regional Railways North East in 1997 or, in some cases certain types of traction.

Finally to the MD Mr Jackson. Many had high hopes for this chap when he turned up after the DfT seized the franchise - he arrived with a great reputation from three employers I remember him from. TPE must have some form of human conversion machine, like for the Robomen in Dr Who and the Daleks, as the Chris Jackson currently at TPE doesn't resemble the previous one, who just three years ago, was extremely critical of the figure fudging (quote) p-code express. Allegedly

 

[childwallblues]

Yet despite this, some trains are still 3 car vi

Yet despite this, some trains are still 3 car vice 6!

I travelled on the 0819 from Lime Street on Tueday morning as far as Sheffield. My return was at 1410. As the 0819 had been a 3-car vice 6 car service I knew that my return would be 3-car as it is the same unit returning from Cleethorpes. On its arrival at Sheffield at 1410 it was absolute chaos as the previous EMT from Norwich. it was full and standing throughout the three cars. The irony of the situation was that there was a spare 185 in the middle road at Sheffield Also the booked trolley was left behind in Sheffield as there was no room for it.

 

[800001]

I travelled on the 0819 from Lime Street on Tueday morning as far as Sheffield. My return was at 1410. As the 0819 had been a 3-car vice 6 car service I knew that my return would be 3-car as it is the same unit returning from Cleethorpes. On its arrival at Sheffield at 1410 it was absolute chaos as the previous EMT from Norwich. it was full and standing throughout the three cars. The irony of the situation was that there was a spare 185 in the middle road at Sheffield Also the booked trolley was left behind in Sheffield as there was no room for it.

There must be a reason why the 185 was ‘dumped’ in the middle road, just because it there does not mean it is spare.

 

[GordonT]

There must be a reason why the 185 was ‘dumped’ in the middle road, just because it there does not mean it is spare.

No doubt. Unfortunately to the average squished paying dearly punter it's just a further feature to rub salt into the wound.

 

[Pyewipecarshed]

I travelled on the 0819 from Lime Street on Tueday morning as far as Sheffield. My return was at 1410. As the 0819 had been a 3-car vice 6 car service I knew that my return would be 3-car as it is the same unit returning from Cleethorpes. On its arrival at Sheffield at 1410 it was absolute chaos as the previous EMT from Norwich. it was full and standing throughout the three cars. The irony of the situation was that there was a spare 185 in the middle road at Sheffield Also the booked trolley was left behind in Sheffield as there was no room for it.

There is never a "spare" 185 at Sheffield. It would be a unit that had developed a fault and was waiting to be driven/towed to Ardwick for repair.

 

[dodecahedron67]

The 397s are falling apart, the 802s are stretched to cover the 397s on the WCML and there's one or two 802s that have been having Power Changeover faults that are stuck running Diesel Only which require them to be out of service for a day or two to be fixed

The 185s don't do well with the heat and a lot are failing on HVAC faults, requiring them to be taken out of service to be fixed. I won't go into it too much but to fix a small HVAC fault on a 185 it's not an easy process, and if the whole HVAC unit fails it can only be fixed at Ardwick. I've failed several over the past few weeks and had them taken out of service for being unsafely hot

 

[RUK]

The 397s are falling apart

Gosh, really?! They’re new trains! That doesn’t bode well for the Class 897s for LNER!…

 

[unlevel42]

I travelled on the 0819 from Lime Street on Tueday morning as far as Sheffield. My return was at 1410. As the 0819 had been a 3-car vice 6 car service I knew that my return would be 3-car as it is the same unit returning from Cleethorpes. On its arrival at Sheffield at 1410 it was absolute chaos as the previous EMT from Norwich. it was full and standing throughout the three cars. The irony of the situation was that there was a spare 185 in the piled onto middle road at Sheffield Also the booked trolley was left behind in Sheffield as there was no room for it.

You were lucky!
The previous day -Monday- the students, airport and festival people piled onto the full and standing train arrived from Cleethorpes. We thought it was odd that people were not getting off but hogging doors and moving coach.
High temperatures had caused failures.
Our three car TPE Sheffield to Manchester had no air conditioning in our carriage - which the guard did not know/tell us about as he encourage others into it.
My phone showed 36 degrees.
Unusually there was only one spare set in the middle road.

 

[800001]

You were lucky!
The previous day -Monday- the students, airport and festival people piled onto the full and standing train arrived from Cleethorpes. We thought it was odd that people were not getting off but hogging doors and moving coach.
High temperatures had caused failures.
Our three car TPE Sheffield to Manchester had no air conditioning in our carriage - which the guard did not know/tell us about as he encourage others into it.
My phone showed 36 degrees.
Unusually there was only one spare set in the middle road.

The set on middle road is not a spare set.

 

[unlevel42]

What are the 2/3/4 sets doing there?

 

[800001]

What are the 2/3/4 sets doing there?

Post #7

 

[saismee]

Gosh, really?! They’re new trains! That doesn’t bode well for the Class 897s for LNER!…

I don't really understand why CAF was ever chosen as a manufacturer...

 

[unlevel42]

Post #7

Why do so many breakdown on Fridays and Saturdays?

 

[RUK]

I don't really understand why CAF was ever chosen as a manufacturer...

I guess they were the cheapest. Hitachi have apparently raised their prices - there was a while where they couldn’t cope with the demand. Hitachi couldn’t deliver more trains on time for TPE at the time, either, even before they raised their prices, which is why TPE split their order with CAF, too. As for other alternative manufacturers, I don’t know if Stadler would have bid for so few trains for LNER - they bid the SMILE (Giruno/EC250) for EMR, but lost out to Hitachi (which surprised me, because they won GA, which is also an Abellio (at the time) franchise).

 

[D1537]

There has definitely been a shortage of 185s on the Redcar-Manchester route this week, including some of the trains that are the busiest on the York-Manchester axis being formed of a single unit. It did seem to have mostly sorted itself out by yesterday, so we'll see what it's like on Monday.

 

[Ianigsy]

I find I tend to get one good journey followed by one bad one. Today the Liverpool service is going to Redcar with pairs of 185s - no First Class (or any other) catering in either unit as far as I could see and no apology or explanation. No mention on Journey Check either.

 

[D1537]

Two of the Manchester-Redcar diagrams (out of seven) are single 185s today, which seems to be the average on a weekday at the moment.

 

[Grumpy]

Two of the Manchester-Redcar diagrams (out of seven) are single 185s today, which seems to be the average on a weekday at the moment.

I saw the 10.45 Leeds to Man. airport today. 3 Car set. Full and standing when it departed. Lots of passengers with cases panicking they wouldn't get on.

 

[Rikki Lamb]

I don't really understand why CAF was ever chosen as a manufacturer...

CAF 'donated' a 6 figure sum to the Tories.

 

[FrontSideBus]

Gosh, really?! They’re new trains! That doesn’t bode well for the Class 897s for LNER!…

Probably shaking themselves to bits judging from first hand experience with the ride quality! I utterly despise them. Probably the worst trains in service at the moment.

 

[Energy]

CAF 'donated' a 6 figure sum to the Tories.

The order was placed by FirstGroup, though.

The TPE 397 order was only 12 x 5 cars and wouldn't be a completely off-the-shelf product (apart from Hitachi), so I'm doubtful they had much manufacturer interest.

 

[saismee]

Can't say I've actually experienced any problems with the 397s or 185s. Though Manchester Piccadilly to Oxford Road isn't exactly the longest journey... worst experience there was being treated like a criminal for attempting to exit to the concourse. I had a Manchester Stations to Stafford ticket and was trying to go to the concourse to view the departure boards. Aggressive questioning wasn't exactly necessary when the ticket says Manchester Stations, not Manchester Piccadilly. Northern staff though, so not the most relevant.

Didn't the Mark 5A sets have a bunch of problems when in service?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Though Manchester Piccadilly to Oxford Road isn't exactly the longest journey... worst experience there was being treated like a criminal for attempting to exit to the concourse. I had a Manchester Stations to Stafford ticket and was trying to go to the concourse to view the departure boards. Aggressive questioning wasn't exactly necessary when the ticket says Manchester Stations, not Manchester Piccadilly. Northern staff though, so not the most relevant.

That one's confused me as well as the barrier staff! Why would anyone be travelling from Manchester Piccadilly to Oxford Road on a Manchester Stns to Stafford ticket? Wrong way, surely?!

 

[saismee]

That one's confused me as well as the barrier staff! Why would anyone be travelling from Manchester Piccadilly to Oxford Road on a Manchester Stns to Stafford ticket? Wrong way, surely?!

I was on the return leg going Oxford Road to Piccadilly then Stafford! Probably not super clear in the post, but I was coming from one of the through platforms and out onto the concourse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The TPE 397 order was only 12 x 5 cars and wouldn't be a completely off-the-shelf product (apart from Hitachi), so I'm doubtful they had much manufacturer interest.

The 397 is basically an end doored, faster 331 so isn't far off being a modular off the shelf product to be fair.

 

[Starmill]

Allegedly the 397s aren't leased beyond 2031. Clearly they have serious issues with availability, though perhaps not comparable with the locomotive hauled train sets. Hopefully they will be replaced by then.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2025 ==

Probably shaking themselves to bits judging from first hand experience with the ride quality! I utterly despise them. Probably the worst trains in service at the moment.

They show up the quality issues by far the worst. I know a lot of industry folk don't believe ride quality or interior noise features highly in customer satisfaction scoring but I'm afraid that's not the case. Feeling that level of rattle and roll is worrying to the average person. The fact is the 350 over exactly the same tracks was mostly silky smooth and the 390s do not bounce like that today.

 

[800001]

Allegedly the 397s aren't leased beyond 2031. Clearly they have serious issues with availability, though perhaps not comparable with the locomotive hauled train sets. Hopefully they will be replaced by then.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2025 ==


They show up the quality issues by far the worst. I know a lot of industry folk don't believe ride quality or interior noise features highly in customer satisfaction scoring but I'm afraid that's not the case. Feeling that level of rattle and roll is worrying to the average person. The fact is the 350 over exactly the same tracks was mostly silky smooth and the 390s do not bounce like that today.

Haven’t TPE currently got a tender out for new trains? If so, are they to replace the 185? Could they also replace the 397?

 

[The Mercian]

Probably shaking themselves to bits judging from first hand experience with the ride quality! I utterly despise them. Probably the worst trains in service at the moment.

Having done a few trips up to Scotland from Manchester, I can only concur, the ride quality is frankly abysmal and that was in a supposedly superior 1st Class seat. Certainly not what you’d call an Inter City quality experience.