TPE going down the tubes again?

[D1537]

Two of the Manchester-Redcar diagrams (out of seven) are single 185s today, which seems to be the average on a weekday at the moment.

Same again today.

 

[Peter A]

Two of the Manchester-Redcar diagrams (out of seven) are single 185s today, which seems to be the average on a weekday at the moment.

I saw the 10.45 Leeds to Man. airport today. 3 Car set. Full and standing when it departed. Lots of passengers with cases panicking they wouldn't get on.

One of the Manchester-Redcar diagrams is booked to be a single set, so two out of seven would suggest only 1x185 missing. The 10:45 from Leeds being on the booked 3-car diagram. Not sure why that particular board is only 1 unit as it hits Leeds in the PM peak (5:45) towards Manchester.

 

[D1537]

One of the Manchester-Redcar diagrams is booked to be a single set, so two out of seven would suggest only 1x185 missing. The 10:45 from Leeds being on the booked 3-car diagram. Not sure why that particular board is only 1 unit as it hits Leeds in the PM peak (5:45) towards Manchester.

If that's the case, that's quite mad. That diagram is also a commuter train from Leeds - York - Northallerton - Teesside in the morning as well.

 

[Starmill]

There aren't enough 185s to run everything doubled up on Redcar Central / Saltburn - Manchester Airport and Liverpool Lime Street - Cleethorpes, unless you destrengthen more of the Hull services to three car. Sometimes when the Hull services only run between Hull and Leeds there are more available thus masking this problem a bit, but it's still robbing Peter to pay Paul because all it does is cause more people to board at Leeds who've changed off the service from Hull, and allows a bigger crowd build up at Liverpool after a longer gap between the expresses. The fact that there aren't enough 185s isn't an especially new idea either. One unit is still to be released from the Leeds - Huddersfield service but not yet and in any case that is only one more.

 

[Peter A]

There aren't enough 185s to run everything doubled up on Redcar Central / Saltburn - Manchester Airport and Liverpool Lime Street - Cleethorpes, unless you destrengthen more of the Hull services to three car. Sometimes when the Hull services only run between Hull and Leeds there are more available thus masking this problem a bit, but it's still robbing Peter to pay Paul because all it does is cause more people to board at Leeds who've changed off the service from Hull, and allows a bigger crowd build up at Liverpool after a longer gap between the expresses. The fact that there aren't enough 185s isn't an especially new idea either. One unit is still to be released from the Leeds - Huddersfield service but not yet and in any case that is only one more.

The Hull running boards are also slightly bizarre with an 802 sitting at Hull between 4:30pm and 8pm, which you'd of thought should really be utilised in the peak, and another between 2:30pm and 4pm resulting in a double 185 having to split up in the afternoon leaving a 3 car on both the 5:30 and 6:30 Manchester to Leeds.

With Leeds to Huddersfield being offloaded to Northern, you would hope that the next priority should be the Manchester to Huddersfield peak stoppers which would free up another 2 185's. I believe eventually the plan is for the Manchester to Huddersfield (and York) stopper to transfer to Northern, which would make sense, freeing up a further 4 185's which would in theory stop booked single 185 workings, but this may not take place until later within TRU anyway.

 

[driverd]

Probably shaking themselves to bits judging from first hand experience with the ride quality! I utterly despise them. Probably the worst trains in service at the moment.

Interesting, I find them one of the best and most under-appreciared long distance units. I don't disagree about the sports suspension being a tad firm, but the design is far more user focused than the 80x's.

 

[alexl92]

Gosh, really?! They’re new trains! That doesn’t bode well for the Class 897s for LNER!…

There's a reason CAF is said to stand for Cheap As F[amily friendly word]

Haven’t TPE currently got a tender out for new trains? If so, are they to replace the 185? Could they also replace the 397?

Procurement of new TransPennine Express trains to learn lessons from past

UK: TransPennine Express has confirmed more details of the trainsets which are to be ordered under the procurement process which was launched following the confirmation of the latest £3·9bn tranche of funding for the Transpennine Route Upgrade programme. Expressions of interest were invited in...

www.railwaygazette.com

It says they intend to avoid the mistakes of past procurement exercises by only ordering one kind of train. I suspect if the 397s are only on lease for a few more years it'd make sense to try and replace 2 fleets with one to keep things simple.

Re the ride quality of their fleet, the seat cushions on the 802s are totally shot; you can feel the metal bar under the middle of the seat when you sit down. And I haven't ridden a 397, or a 331 at speed, but the 195s are so bumpy and rough at speed that if they're anything similar they'll be an awful experience.

 

[LittleAH]

I believe eventually the plan is for the Manchester to Huddersfield (and York) stopper to transfer to Northern, which would make sense, freeing up a further 4 185's which would in theory stop booked single 185 workings, but this may not take place until later within TRU anyway.

That may be what Northern want but there’s a whole host of caveats at play. Notably northern can’t fulfil what TPE currently deliver.

 

[Peter A]

That may be what Northern want but there’s a whole host of caveats at play. Notably northern can’t fulfil what TPE currently deliver.

TPE have stated that's the plan as opposed to Northern - but yes I guess realistically it won't be until Northern receive some new or additional units/the new TRU timetable is delivered.

 

[Starmill]

That may be what Northern want but there’s a whole host of caveats at play. Notably northern can’t fulfil what TPE currently deliver.

There's no way this would come before 2031, probably 2033 realistically, so what's available now isn't really a guide. By the time it happens 185s will be approaching retirement regardless.

 

[FrontSideBus]

Interesting, I find them one of the best and most under-appreciared long distance units. I don't disagree about the sports suspension being a tad firm, but the design is far more user focused than the 80x's.

I'd rather go long distance on a 158 than a 397!

 

[williamn]

Interesting, I find them one of the best and most under-appreciared long distance units. I don't disagree about the sports suspension being a tad firm, but the design is far more user focused than the 80x's.

Agreed - I look forward to taking them, really enjoy a ride on them.

 

[Brubulus]

Agreed - I look forward to taking them, really enjoy a ride on them.

I can't actually believe the 397s are that bad maintenance wise, didn't they win a golden spanner?
The 197s are a different story, but I had thought the other CAF products were relatively reliable.