TPE franchise awarded to First

[northwichcat]

Will tpe keep the whole 185 fleet?
what about 350s

TPE are getting brand new trains for all Scottish services and all North TPE services via York. That would leave nowhere for the 350s to be used. Some 185s would be released, we don't know exactly how many or where they will go - they are not confirmed as going to Northern as some people seem to think.

Will virgin voyagers continue to run to scotland or go to crosscountry as a result of new tpe trains?

TPE will have had to plan their services around other operators and other operators can't cut back their services unless they are running more than they are required to in their franchise agreement.

Will the first brand go?

They've not said it will

What will happen to the 442s and surplus 319s especially if northern getting new electric trains.l assume no 442s for tpe

They will be available for other operators to take on, if they require them.

 

[Starmill]

I doubt highly any changes to the Voyager fleet as a result of today's announcements. 442 for TPE not announced; certain people of the opinion that it's also not ruled out. 185s likely split between NT and TP. 350/4 likely to NT or LM. Full stock movements and new orders unknown until post-standstill period and further announcements. No news of the use of FG branding.

 

[northwichcat]

442 for TPE not announced; certain people of the opinion that it's also not ruled out.

Indeed. I doubt DfT or First would make a big fuss in the press release about a few sets going to TPE on a temporary basis.

 

[XC90]

Every 15mins NCL - EDB is a bit OTT especially when VTEC and XC also operate the same route. What will it be, 9tph?

 

[yorksrob]

Not too keen on First staying on to be honest. Can forgive them some of the overcrowding on their routes, but not the high fares.

 

[43074]

No news of the use of FG branding.

I did read they would create a new Transpennine brand which seemed to indicate the First branding would go.

Edit: I'm on mobile so can't provide a link.

 

[Stats]

How does the decision to have TPE running an extra service between Newcastle and Edinburgh affect the various proposals discussed over the last couple of years for the Scotrail franchise to extend a semifast service to Newcastle?

I'm assuming as a first guess that the two are mutually exclusive?

Perhaps more pressing is what does it mean for the open access applications that have yet to be decided. As most of the capacity discussion for those applications have been around capacity between Northallerton and Edinburgh it is surprising that all of a sudden there appears to be capacity to run an additional TPE service.

 

[XC90]

Copying the ScotRail model?

More franchises should be branded as it stops the confusion of franchise changes for the general public I.E those that still call it British Rail.

 

[swt_passenger]

Every 15mins NCL - EDB is a bit OTT especially when VTEC and XC also operate the same route. What will it be, 9tph?

No, 4 tph, as per earlier posts. 2 x EC, 1 x XC, 1 x TPE. 5 if an Open Access operator is allowed. Cannot really fathom where you could possibly get anything approaching 9 tph north of Newcastle from...

 

[markydh]

My understanding of the press releases is that Newcastle services will stay hourly in December 2016 but it will revert to being a Manchester Airport service which has been requested locally. Then new stock will allow for the reintroduction of the Liverpool.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Copying the ScotRail model?

More franchises should be branded as it stops the confusion of franchise changes for the general public I.E those that still call it British Rail.

It should still be British Rail. The wasted paint, stickers, uniforms, websites and millions of other trivial things could have paid for, at a guess, a large chunk or perhaps the entire the GOBLIN electrification program.

 

[XC90]

No, 4 tph, as per earlier posts. 2 x EC, 1 x XC, 1 x TPE. 5 if an Open Access operator is allowed. Cannot really fathom where you could possibly get anything approaching 9 tph north of Newcastle from...

Misread an earlier post.

 

[Starmill]

No, 4 tph, as per earlier posts. 2 x EC, 1 x XC, 1 x TPE. 5 if an Open Access operator is allowed. Cannot really fathom where you could possibly get anything approaching 9 tph north of Newcastle from...

SR to Berwick upon Tweed and NT to Morpeth suggests a 5th path, so that makes 6 if there's an Open Access one.

 

[JaJaWa]

I believe it's been said at one of the recent franchise changes that the DfT will only accept a owning group brand name if it can be proved that it will attract more passengers (eg: Virgin is acceptable, Arriva or First definitely not).

I strongly doubt that it will stay as First TransPennine Express, especially after First have rebranded Great Western Railway and Hull Trains of their own accord.

 

[F Great Eastern]

You're giving the DFT far too much credit there, they are to blame for a lot of the problems on the network, compare the hand that Virgin were dealt, compared to First's franchises over the past few years.

But it's convenient for the DFT to blame someone else for their failings, lack of foresight and ridiculously conservative attitude to growth and dilly-dallying over rolling stock orders.

The SRA with Bowker was bad but honestly the DFT isn't much better.

 

[ainsworth74]

Yeah it's going to be TransPennine Express I'd gamble as the TOC name. By my anecdotal experience it's a name that does seem to have achieved some level of penetration amongst the ordinary passenger so would be logical to continue without the 'First' on the front.

 

[swt_passenger]

SR to Berwick upon Tweed and NT to Morpeth suggests a 5th path, so that makes 6 if there's an Open Access one.

But that was the point of my earlier question. Will Scotrail's proposed service still be running to Berwick as well? Are TPE really go to run every service non-stop from Morpeth to Edinburgh as shown on the map, or will they take a sensible decision and use it to provide a single service with similar benefits?

 

[Starmill]

Yeah it's going to be TransPennine Express I'd gamble as the TOC name. By my anecdotal experience it's a name that does seem to have achieved some level of penetration amongst the ordinary passenger so would be logical to continue with just with 'First' on the front.

Virgin Trains' CIS won't need updating :P It advertises on screens and in announcements it as 'TransPennine Express' already

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yeah it's going to be TransPennine Express I'd gamble as the TOC name. By my anecdotal experience it's a name that does seem to have achieved some level of penetration amongst the ordinary passenger so would be logical to continue with just with 'First' on the front.

It already has First(f) on the start of it. The only evidence of Keolis is in the "i" of TransPennine, which is the same stylised "i" as found in the word Keolis.

Or do you mean they might follow GW and remove the First(f)? The F-in-circle is rather overbranded onto the present operation just like most of theirs.

 

[JaJaWa]

It already has First(f) on the start of it. The only evidence of Keolis is in the "i" of TransPennine, which is the same stylised "i" as found in the word Keolis.

Or do you mean they might follow GW and remove the First(f)? The F-in-circle is rather overbranded onto the present operation just like most of theirs.

The "First" will go. It will just be TransPennine Express, probably with a new logo.

 

[ainsworth74]

Oh dear, not quite sure what went wrong there but I meant it exactly as JaJaWa stated

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh dear, not quite sure what went wrong there but I meant it exactly as JaJaWa stated

Sorry

 

[Starmill]

It already has First(f) on the start of it. The only evidence of Keolis is in the "i" of TransPennine, which is the same stylised "i" as found in the word Keolis.

Or do you mean they might follow GW and remove the First(f)? The F-in-circle is rather overbranded onto the present operation just like most of theirs.

Except that that isn't their logo, this is:

 

[ainsworth74]

So, as I was trying, badly, to communicate (I swear I can write English good), I think they'll just drop the 'First' and the flying 'f' and go with TransPennine Express (perhaps revamped a bit) because a) it's already used in some places as Starmill pointed out and b) in my experience it has achieved some level of penetration as a brand with the public.

 

[LLivery]

Except that that isn't their logo, this is:

Indeed, it changed a few years back
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
First will probably be removed for TPE, or TransPennine or even TransPennine Railway. Out of interest are the words "TransPennine" required? Or could Northern Express (very much doubt it) be potentially used?

 

[johntea]

Can't they simply be called 'TransPenine'?

Some of their current services can hardly be classed as 'Express'

 

[ainsworth74]

Some of their current services can hardly be classed as 'Express'

Surely the key word in that is 'current'

 

[freetoview33]

Or Pennine Connect

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Can't they simply be called 'TransPenine'?

What does the word "Penine" as shown above actually signify?

 

[JaJaWa]

They do still use both logos and names as it appears Keolis weren't too happy about being wiped from it!