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Toton disused class 60s

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DarloRich

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You have to wonder what DBs ultimate plans are for all these locos, plus the 58s stored across the water. There doesn't seem to be much chance that they will let them go to another UK FOC (and why would they, especially after what happened with the Colas 60s) so the likelihood of any of them seeing work in the UK again has to be approaching zero.

two options:

Scrap. As I said you use the value left in the locomotives as a rainy day fund and you don't flood the market by letting them all go at once. You let a few go as required to take advantage of high scrap rates. If the rates are low you don't sell.

or for the more rotten ones like:

60081 Isambard Kingdom Brunel may be the one you're thinking of. It 'threw a leg out of bed' in April 2005; in other words, a piston/rod broke through the engine casing. Given the seriousness of this failure and the length of time it's been sat out in open storage since, a return to service for 081 looks to be highly unlikely.

break for spares then scrap the remains.
 
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TimboM

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60081 Isambard Kingdom Brunel may be the one you're thinking of. It 'threw a leg out of bed' in April 2005; in other words, a piston/rod broke through the engine casing. Given the seriousness of this failure and the length of time it's been sat out in open storage since, a return to service for 081 looks to be highly unlikely.

My untrained eye suggest 081 is a goner looking at this photo... https://flic.kr/p/THckd9 Has fire damage too I believe.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Bump for my question...

I have been thinking about going for these 60s - my own DSLR camera only has a 55mm zoom, which I realise isn't enough to get good images of them from the footpath on the bank... but my wife's bridge camera has a 46X optical zoom.

Will that be sufficient if I borrow it?
 

CosherB

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A higher top speed and an ETH supply and these wouldn't be stored imo.

This old chestnut has done the rounds previously. So why didn't BR add ETS to the 58s, which surely would have been better candidates? Or even 56/4s?

The 60s were built and lived as heavy haul freight locos, and they'll die as heavy haul freight locos. No ifs, buts, maybes and hindsight will change that.
 
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Blaahh

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60070 at the back of the compound was recently moved there and looks very stripped. My bet is first to be scrapped. The bank line will stay as its not like they need the siding for anything until scrap prices change.

Haven't DBC got to bring 58050 back from Alizay for the National Collection at some point?
 
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CosherB

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60070 at the back of the compound was recently moved there and looks very stripped. My bet is first to be scrapped. The bank line will stay as its not like they need the siding for anything until scrap prices change.

Haven (sic) DBC got to bring 58050 back from Alizay for the National Collection at some point?

Indeed, yes. As to whether it ends up in the care of the NRM may well still have to be negotiated after what happened with a Royal 47 ....

http://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/2015/01/14/royal-class-47-returns-to-main-line

The National Railway Museum’s 47798 Prince William was released from a bodywork overhaul at Burton on January 14. It ran light to Kidderminster, where it collected a Mk 1 support coach which it then hauled to West Coast Railway’s Carnforth depot.

The Class 47/7 has been repainted into the original Rail Express Systems version of the royal livery, as applied in 1995 at Wolverton Works. This replaces the EWS version of the royal livery.

The Class 47 is passed for main line use. It is used to haul empty stock around the UK for the NRM, but was controversially used by WCR for charters in 2012, which drew criticism from its previous owners who were unhappy that a locomotive donated to the NRM was being used by a rival.
 

TimboM

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Indeed, yes. As to whether it ends up in the care of the NRM may well still have to be negotiated after what happened with a Royal 47 ....

http://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/2015/01/14/royal-class-47-returns-to-main-line

I've heard this before, but is this a RAIL spin on it to make a story out of pretty much nothing? I assume the Royal 47 came from EWS/DB?? (after they probably got it from next to nothing from us taxpayers, but let's not go there...). I can't see EWS considering WCR as a "rival"!?
 
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CosherB

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I've heard this before, but is this a RAIL spin on it to make a story out of pretty much nothing? I assume the Royal 47 came from EWS/DB?? (after they probably got it from next to nothing from us taxpayers, but let's not go there...). I can't see EWS considering WCR as a "rival"!?

Well I can see why DB were miffed about the situation. Having donated the loco to a 'charity', to then see it in commercial use, even if it was 'only' WCRC, must have come as an unwelcome surprise, to say the least!
 

Townsend Hook

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I've heard this before, but is this a RAIL spin on it to make a story out of pretty much nothing? I assume the Royal 47 came from EWS/DB?? (after they probably got it from next to nothing from us taxpayers, but let's not go there...). I can't see EWS considering WCR as a "rival"!?

West Coast is a major player in the charter sector that DB also compete in, so they certainly are rivals in that sense, and I can fully understand why they might be a bit miffed.
 

TimboM

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Well I can see why DB were miffed about the situation. Having donated the loco to a 'charity', to then see it in commercial use, even if it was 'only' WCRC, must have come as an unwelcome surprise, to say the least!

West Coast is a major player in the charter sector that DB also compete in, so they certainly are rivals in that sense, and I can fully understand why they might be a bit miffed.

Mildly miffed, maybe, but if you donate an asset to a charity (that presumably you now have little/no use for) then unless you stipulate something in a contract you can't really complain. Also, if WCR weren't using this on one of their tours I suspect they'd be using one of their own locos, so DB/EWS probably weren't losing out. And whilst DB do charters etc. it's not exactly their core business (like it is for WCR).

Anyway, back to the 60s (as the above "use after donating to charity/museum" topic has been debated in broad terms many times elsewhere) - I'd have little sympathy with DB after allowing so many 60s (and 58s) to rot away - and having no use for them other than scrap - if they were then miffed if the example(s) they gave to the National Collection got the odd run out (presumably for a modest income which in turn goes back into the Collection).

I'm not aware of the exact details of the contract at privatisation, but I also believe EWS (now DB) acquired the 60s (and the 92s and other locos) - which were then in decent condition - for considerably less than the millions BR (aka the taxpayer) paid for them only a few years before. So again, can see why they'd be miffed, but I'd have little sympathy if the public-funded NRM got a bit of use/income out of them.

All hypothetical anyway I suspect, as even if they eventual donate a reasonable example of the Class (60100?) it'll most likely be a static exhibit somewhere or be stored.
 

Strathclyder

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I have been thinking about going for these 60s - my own DSLR camera only has a 55mm zoom, which I realise isn't enough to get good images of them from the footpath on the bank... but my wife's bridge camera has a 46X optical zoom.

Will that be sufficient if I borrow it?

If you have a stable enough hand or a tripod (that is, if you have one), then I'm sure a 46X optical zoom would be sufficient enough to get them from the footpath. Hope this helps in some way. :)
 

Peter Mugridge

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Great thanks... now I just need the weather to co-operate on one of my days off work; I gather it's quite a walk from the tram stop to the footpath that overlooks the depot...?
 

Bevan Price

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If you have a stable enough hand or a tripod (that is, if you have one), then I'm sure a 46X optical zoom would be sufficient enough to get them from the footpath. Hope this helps in some way. :)

x46 will be more than adequate. The main problem when I went there a few years ago was wagons parked in front of some of the locos. A selection from 2012 is here:

http://www.bevanprice.me.uk/Toton_loco graveyard.html

Taken with zoom lens (up to x6), sometimes with added (x2) multiplier.
 

BestWestern

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It's interesting, we see the likes of Colas & DRS utilising assets as they require, making good use of older locomotives with relatively low values, and sourcing stock based on the work they have. At the other end of the scale is EWS/DBS/DBC, who to the casual observer have maintained consistent policies of massive waste of existing assets, over provision of replacement assets (66 & 67), and an attitude of such complacency that actively persuing work would seem to have been considered beneath them, giving away contracts to the compeition at quite a rate. It's no wonder they're in a mess of late.
 

Crawley Ben

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Great thanks... now I just need the weather to co-operate on one of my days off work; I gather it's quite a walk from the tram stop to the footpath that overlooks the depot...?

I've driven on the A52 which passes Toton numerous times (brother in law lives nearby and works at Toton depot). IMO the tram stop isn't all that far from the bridge that looks towards to the depot. I've not walked it myself, but would think it's probably 15 mins or so, be surprised if any longer than that.

Hope you enjoy your visit, would imagine there will be plenty of loco's and stored coal wagons on view.

Cheers

Ben
 

SpacePhoenix

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Will most of them now be beyond economic repair and so be cannibalised for spares and then scrapped (do they share any common components with any other classes)?
 
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