"Too much information?"

[PaxVobiscum]

The World at One appears to be about to run an item on information overload later in today's programme. (Just trailed with audio clip of extract from long passenger info announcement). More anon.

EDIT: It seems that it is Norman Baker who has brought this up. Short item, shallow discussion.

 

[dysonsphere]

Just listened to it not a bad article with a good coment from the minister about the quailty of automated annoucment systems and the inability of anyone to turn them off or make them more usefull.

 

[cjohnson]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21773741

Train operators urged to curb 'excessive' announcements

Transport minister Norman Baker has said the number of computer-generated announcements on trains has got out of hand and needs to be reduced.

Many of the speaker messages were irrelevant to passengers and spoiled their journeys, he told the BBC.

It was unnecessary, for example, to tell people they were on a non-smoking train when it was banned on all trains.

...

 

[Ferret]

Just listened to it not a bad article with a good coment from the minister about the quailty of automated annoucment systems and the inability of anyone to turn them off or make them more usefull.

I'm glad this is being brought to the wider attention of us all. It's immensely frustrating for everyone when Digital Doris gibbers about irrelevances as soon as something goes wrong. Of course, now we just need somebody to act.........

 

[jb]

I'm glad this is being brought to the wider attention of us all. It's immensely frustrating for everyone when Digital Doris gibbers about irrelevances as soon as something goes wrong. Of course, now we just need somebody to act.........

When it properly goes tits up it's somewhat funny (so long as you're not too worried about any actual information). I remember once being at Woking when pretty much all of SWT was down. There was continuous automated gibberish for a sustained period.

 

[Ferret]

When it properly goes tits up it's somewhat funny (so long as you're not too worried about any actual information). I remember once being at Woking when pretty much all of SWT was down. There was continuous automated gibberish for a sustained period.

Same as when LM had a major farce on the X-City in Brum a couple of months back. The gibber from Doris was almost non-stop - I was wondering if she was going to come up for air!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There was a debate on Radio 4 on the same matter.

 

[Squaddie]

The World at One appears to be about to run an item on information overload later in today's programme.

But it's really about excessive on-train announcements rather than too much information. Naturally, the TOCs insist that passengers want to be subjected to an incessant torrent of announcements - in fact, we beg for it.

 

[Goatboy]

Completely agree. Of particular annoyance is FGW's continued announcement to tell the police if I see anything suspicious on the train. Well duh.

 

[DelayRepay]

I don't mind announcements telling me which platforms the trains are leaving from, or if there are delays. But the constant babble about not smoking, remembering to take all my property with me, reporting suspicious behaviour to the police, not running, not skateboarding or cycling, not using my Oyster Card beyond East Croydon, not assaulting the staff, standing back behind the yellow line, moving right down inside the coach..... really do we need them all??

 

[Mojo]

Completely agree that announcements have got out of hand but manual announcements can be particularly excessive too, particularly on Intercity trains where we are often forced to listen to 90 seconds of "information" from the Train Manager and 60 seconds about the catering offer.

One area where announcements are sadly lacking is during delays. I'm normally a bit sceptical about those who complain of "no information" during delays (more like it's no information they want to hear) but perhaps the Tocs should adopt London Underground's targets of 30 seconds stopped between stations and 90 seconds stopped in a platform (unless the train is early of course!) I was sat on a train at York on Saturday and we left 30 Min late, in which period there were no announcements on board to inform us of the delay and the reason for it.

 

[jb]

Same as when LM had a major farce on the X-City in Brum a couple of months back. The gibber from Doris was almost non-stop - I was wondering if she was going to come up for air!

On reflection I find such incidents to be moderately sinister, in a Rise of The Machines kind of way. After all, at such times the network is in chaos and the witterings of Doris or Celia are worse than useless, yet there seems to be lacking a human being with the presence of mind or the technical wherewithal (I am not sure which is missing) to actually turn the bloody thing off.

I should be joking but I'm not completely.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

No we don't need them. But sadly if they didnt announce the waffle they do, someone will claim for an accident on the basis they weren't told it was a stupid thing to do!!! Half the announcements are there purely for backside covering

 

[PHILIPE]

"Mind the gap between the train and the platform". This is normal. Surely everybody knows that the train will not be wedged up tight against the platform.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

But it's really about excessive on-train announcements rather than too much information. Naturally, the TOCs insist that passengers want to be subjected to an incessant torrent of announcements - in fact, we beg for it.

I wrote that half an hour before it was broadcast remember!
The title was a quote from how it was trailed at the start of the programme.
All complaints to the BBC! (or maybe you were and I misunderstood).

 

[umontu]

It gets irritating to hear the constant reminders about things that you don't need to know.

Announcements should be limited to :-

Delays.
Platform alterations.
What trains are arriving and departing and which platforms.
Emergency announcements.

What really isn't needed is things like

"This station is patrolled by Greater Manchester Police" (Shudehill bus station in Manchester) Well really... I thought it would be the Guardia civil!

Or constant reminders about doors closing at XX seconds before departure, CCTV, police, platform edgings and so forth, they should be on signs.

My favourite station for announcements is Preston because of these reasons and the fact they get the station names right!

On trains they can be annoying too. I know there's a reason why they can't just limit them to signs but on TPE there's a scrolling message board telling you all the information.

It should just pipe up once to say "Welcome on board (no need to say the company name) we're going to X calling at Y,Z,C,A & X (arriving at XX:XX) First class located in coach X."

And of course "This is Z, thank you for traveling with us" Why do I need to be told to take my stuff with me?

 

[Starmill]

There is one particular guard I know who is fond of this sort of thing:

"Service calls Mauldeth, Burnage, Didsbury, Gatley, Heald Green, Airport, Wilmslow, Alderly, Holmes Chapel, Sandbach terminates Crewe."

How little few words can you use and still actually make an announcement?

By contrast, there is another who treats us to a lovely 'good morning' announcement. Not sic, but:

"A very good morning to you Ladies and Gentlemen, we are now waiting just outside the final stop for this service, at Manchester Piccadilly. It would appear that Network Rail will be keeping us here for a few minutes longer as we have unfortunately,or fortunately depending on which way you look at it, arrived a couple of minutes early. While we're waiting I'll give you all some onward travel information.

He then gives out what seems like a whole departure board on the pa!

"Passengers for Liverpool, your train will be departing from Platform 14 at xx:xx, but is currently running about 5 minutes late."

"Passengers for Chester and North Wales, your train will also be leaving from Platform 14 at xx:xx"

"Any passengers for West Yorkshire and the North East, your train departs from platform 3 at xx:xx - this will be the service to Newcastle, so passengers for Hull should change at Leeds, and passengers for stations to Middlesbrough and Scarborough should change at York."

et cetera until the train moves off again. I noted that he gave platforms for almost everywhere - EXCEPT London!

"Ah, here we go - it seems we have been allocated a platform and are on the move again. Please remember to take all of your luggage and belongings with you when leaving the train and do not leave anything unattended on the station. Also please mind the gap between the train and the platform and have tickets ready for inspection by barrier staff. All change please at Manchester Piccadilly, and thank you for travelling with Northern Rail."

On older stock, I recently heard this quote, which I think describes the situation perfectly:

"How can that be so loud and yet so unclear?"

 

[umontu]

On older stock, I recently heard this quote, which I think describes the situation perfectly:

"How can that be so loud and yet so unclear?"

On a 156 about a year a go I heard the guard through the door louder than through the PA system. :roll:

 

[bgstrowger]

The new announcements at Victoria can be quite convoluted.

For example, the announcements for the Ramsgate/Dover Priory trains goes something like this:

"Platform X for the XX.XX Southeastern service to Ramsgate and Dover Priory. Calling at Bromley South, Longfield, Meopham, Rochester, Chatham, Gillingham, Rainham, Newington, Sittingbourne, Teynham and Faversham where the train will divide. Customers for Bromley South, Longfield, Meopham, Rochester, Chatham, Gillingham, Rainham, Newington, Sittingbourne, Teynham and Faversham can travel in any part of the train. Customers for Whitstable, Chestfield and Swalecliffe, Herne Bay, Birchington on Sea, Westgate on Sea, Margate, Dumpton Park and Ramsgate must travel in the front four coaches furthest from the ticket barrier. Customers for Selling, Canterbury East, Bekesbourne, Adisham, Aylesham, Snowdown, Sherpherdswell, Kearsney and Dover Priory must travel in the rear four coaches..."

Surely there's no reason to read the stations from VIC to FAV twice purely to inform people that you can travel in any bit of the train if you're travelling to those stations?

 

[30909]

On home ground, the Portsmouth Direct, the variety of PA announcements is fascinating to a point. Some guards switch off Doris leave the PIS visual on and remain quiet for almost the whole journey. Others have to have their moment of fame and use the same script as Doris and leave her on too.
One chap insist on listing all the Southern tickets that are not permissible on his train ex Portsmouth Harbour and at all intermediate calls to Havant where he adds, after departure, that he will be checking tickets and anyone with one of the (list) of Southern tickets will be charged a full single to Waterloo. To cap it all he trots this lot out at least twice on departure from Waterloo and again if the train calls at Clapham Junction.
What most now seem not to mention is the change at Haslemere in either direction for intermediate stations when on a “fast” service, it is particularly useful for the occasional traveller and particularly in the off peak.

 

[Starmill]

The new announcements at Victoria can be quite convoluted.

For example, the announcements for the Ramsgate/Dover Priory trains goes something like this:

"Platform X for the XX.XX Southeastern service to Ramsgate and Dover Priory. Calling at Bromley South, Longfield, Meopham, Rochester, Chatham, Gillingham, Rainham, Newington, Sittingbourne, Teynham and Faversham where the train will divide. Customers for Bromley South, Longfield, Meopham, Rochester, Chatham, Gillingham, Rainham, Newington, Sittingbourne, Teynham and Faversham can travel in any part of the train. Customers for Whitstable, Chestfield and Swalecliffe, Herne Bay, Birchington on Sea, Westgate on Sea, Margate, Dumpton Park and Ramsgate must travel in the front four coaches furthest from the ticket barrier. Customers for Selling, Canterbury East, Bekesbourne, Adisham, Aylesham, Snowdown, Sherpherdswell, Kearsney and Dover Priory must travel in the rear four coaches..."

Surely there's no reason to read the stations from VIC to FAV twice purely to inform people that you can travel in any bit of the train if you're travelling to those stations?

Oh god. I was traumatised by the length of one of those announcements when I visited. It must have been nearly five mins on the same train! Ore & Littlehampton... 12 car train. Funny thing was, the PIS at East Croydon was convinced it was splitting... twice!!! Perhaps the middle unit was simply being taken out of service somewhere?

 

[tsr]

I was particularly amused to be advised to "...have all tickets and travel documents ready for inspection" when alighting a train at its terminus of Shalford the other day.

Since when have there been random border control checks in a sleepy Surrey village? I think that's what most passengers (or, rather, most of the four of them) would imagine upon hearing that.

 

[Goatboy]

"Mind the gap between the train and the platform". This is normal. Surely everybody knows that the train will not be wedged up tight against the platform.

This one I only tend to hear infrequently and only when the gap is particularly huge - for example Worcester Foregate Street where its more a small mountain than a gap!

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Why do I need to be told to take my stuff with me?

For the same reason that there are ten thousand lost property departments in this country. People forget stuff, including those who roll their eyes at being reminded not to forget stuff.

 

[DelayRepay]

For the same reason that there are ten thousand lost property departments in this country. People forget stuff, including those who roll their eyes at being reminded not to forget stuff.

But do the announcements work? I have never heard one which has actually prompted me to take some luggage which I would otherwise have left on the train. People are careless, announcements or not.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

I'm sure it's quantifiable, whether the number of announcements correspond with the number of things that end up in the lost property department. I have no way of finding that data myself, I'd hope it is out there though.

It's the same as the no smoking announcement. It's easy for grumpy commuters to scoff at the no smoking announcement ("every train is non smoking you idiots!") because they don't have to deal with passengers who think it is fine to smoke on the train.

I agree that there are a lot of redundant announcements. I'd like to think the ones I make are informative without being boring, but I have to be mindful of the fact that I am talking to the entire train and that might include people who haven't travelled by train for ten years.

 

[tsr]

Why do I need to be told to take my stuff with me?

If you've experienced the chaos caused by a major security alert started by an item of left luggage, you don't mind this one so much. Trust me!

As an example, there is another thread on here in which I detailed what happens when you try to evacuate London Victoria at peak times due to an item of "suspicious" luggage. These sorts of proceedings are not clever or funny.

 

[Aictos]

No we don't need them. But sadly if they didnt announce the waffle they do, someone will claim for an accident on the basis they weren't told it was a stupid thing to do!!! Half the announcements are there purely for backside covering

Pretty much this is because the last government fostered a attitude where it's anyone else's fault but yours with the blame culture vultures being given free reign.

I was in Germany last week and the difference in announcements was stunning!

 

[PhilipW]

Southern (Norman Baker's local train company) have some of the worst on-board announcements as they announce every stop on the service after each station.

On the Portsmouth/Bognor services and on the Southampton/Bognor services which divide at Horsham, they must tell you about 20 times from Victoria that the train will divide at Horsham and will passengers please get in the right part of the train.

... and as for "You are in Coach 3 of 4" (etc) after each station. What's the point, nobody else announces that.

 

[Flamingo]

FGW have just revised the on-board announcements, we are now being told "Less is more". Except the security announcements, which are a TRANSEC requirement (ie imposed on us) and required every 30 minutes approx.

It'll work fine until we start getting complaints like "nobody told me I needed to change there" or "I'm being discriminated against as nobody told me I could get information in Braile"...