TOD and lost physical debit card

[bubieyehyeh]

chase recommend you dont' use the virtual card number for collecting train tickets.

You can get the physical cardsfull number, expiry and ccv if you use on TFL.

However its not clear if you can use the phsyical details for a card not present transaction. I suspect chase might reject it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is all a massive, massive gimmick on Chase's part that they just didn't think through at all. There are better ways to do virtual cards, e.g. how Monzo does it (you create one yourself, basically, knowing you're doing it).

I would 100% blame them for this nonsense, and they really should pack it in. Not printing the number on the card is fair enough as a security feature, but hiding it and/or pretending it doesn't exist and/or giving you a different one that you would genuinely believe to be correct is just nonsensical in the extreme. It's not just train tickets where this might be an issue.

 

[bubieyehyeh]

This is all a massive, massive gimmick on Chase's part that they just didn't think through at all. There are better ways to do virtual cards, e.g. how Monzo does it (you create one yourself, basically, knowing you're doing it).

I would 100% blame them for this nonsense, and they really should pack it in. Not printing the number on the card is fair enough as a security feature, but hiding it and/or pretending it doesn't exist and/or giving you a different one that you would genuinely believe to be correct is just nonsensical in the extreme. It's not just train tickets where this might be an issue.

Totally agree. Its security by obscurity.

However I guess the reason they do it, is to reduce the number of replacement cards they send out, when details are hacked from website with slack security. However they could have physical and virtual number in app and explain people should use virtual details unless they need to use the physical details.

I suspect unless they renew the 1% cashback I won't be using the card anymore in a few months.

 

[323235]

This is all a massive, massive gimmick on Chase's part that they just didn't think through at all. There are better ways to do virtual cards, e.g. how Monzo does it (you create one yourself, basically, knowing you're doing it).

I would 100% blame them for this nonsense, and they really should pack it in. Not printing the number on the card is fair enough as a security feature, but hiding it and/or pretending it doesn't exist and/or giving you a different one that you would genuinely believe to be correct is just nonsensical in the extreme. It's not just train tickets where this might be an issue.

I would argue that it isn’t chase but the train companies technology that is behind the times.

Chase make it very clear that they are an app based bank.

Anyone who doesn’t have some understanding of app based banks is very unlikely to get an account.

It’s high time that train companies did away with the requirement for a physical card for collection.

Perhaps app banks could have a QR code in the app that you could scan on railway ticket machines. The other option is that rail companies could allow you to convert your ticket into an e-ticket at anytime.

There’s plenty of solutions to move away from physical cards and one need to be taken.

 

[Adam Williams]

I would argue that it isn’t chase but the train companies technology that is behind the times.

Chase make it very clear that they are an app based bank.

Anyone who doesn’t have some understanding of app based banks is very unlikely to get an account.

It’s high time that train companies did away with the requirement for a physical card for collection.

Perhaps app banks could have a QR code in the app that you could scan on railway ticket machines. The other option is that rail companies could allow you to convert your ticket into an e-ticket at anytime.

There’s plenty of solutions to move away from physical cards and one need to be taken.

I'd agree with this take.

Back when ToD was first designed, requiring the physical card used for payment to be present made some amount of sense as an anti-fraud mechanism. This was before the widespread adoption of 3D Secure (now version 2 widely deployed, thanks to European Union regulation in the form of PSD2).

It's now 2022, and any retailer with sense is going to mandate successfully solving a 3D Secure challenge at checkout for ToD bookings (or simply all bookings). Requiring the physical card is an anachronism and I would strongly argue it catches out more legitimate customers than fraudsters it stops. ToD simply hasn't been modernised.

Of course, if E-Tickets are the answer going forward, then perhaps it doesn't make sense to invest much time in improving this. But the rate of progress hasn't been good enough to declare the death of ToD just yet, in my opinion.

There are still far too many ticket types that aren't fulfilable as E-Tickets for retailers that actually follow the rules and obey the fulfillment types allowed within RCS.

 

[Wallsendmag]

ToD is on it's last legs once TfL accept barcodes it will be dead and buried along with little orange tickets from the 80s.

 

[Adam Williams]

ToD is on it's last legs once TfL accept barcodes it will be dead and buried along with little orange tickets from the 80s.

So you keep saying! But what about Scotrail, who continue to only allow mTicket? What about all the random tickets on flows which GWR/TPE/others haven't gotten around to enabling in RCS yet? Will we get something better than RCS, or blanket permission to just fulfil to E-Ticket?

 

[Kilopylae]

Requiring the physical card is an anachronism

I strongly agree, although on flows where e-Tickets are available, I suspect the overlap between customers "modern" enough not to carry a card but backwards enough to use paper tickets is a small one.

 

[Wallsendmag]

So you keep saying! But what about Scotrail, who continue to only allow mTicket? What about all the random tickets on flows which GWR/TPE/others haven't gotten around to enabling in RCS yet? Will we get something better than RCS, or blanket permission to just fulfil to E-Ticket?

We have no such restriction with ScotRail , we're using eTicket on our flows in Scotland and PRT on all flows

 

[Adam Williams]

We have no such restriction with ScotRail , we're using eTicket on our flows in Scotland and PRT on all flows

That's not what RCS says though, is it?

Tell me, can I sell a £6.10 Anytime Day Single ticket from Edinburgh to Inverkeithing using E-ticket fulfillment?

 

[Wallsendmag]

That's not what RCS says though, is it?

Tell me, can I sell a £6.10 Anytime Day Single ticket from Edinburgh to Inverkeithing using E-ticket fulfillment?

You get a mTicket until ScotRail enable eTickets on their own flows. Still an alternative to ToD.

 

[Haywain]

You get a mTicket until ScotRail enable eTickets on their own flows. Still an alternative to ToD.

How is it an alternative if you don't want to buy, or sell, and mTicket?

 

[maniacmartin]

Slightly off topic, but the main reason I keep my Chase UK account is because it givces you free ATM withdrawals from Chase US ATMs. It's very rare to find an ATM operator in the USA that doesn't charge fees

 

[Bletchleyite]

Totally agree. Its security by obscurity.

However I guess the reason they do it, is to reduce the number of replacement cards they send out, when details are hacked from website with slack security. However they could have physical and virtual number in app and explain people should use virtual details unless they need to use the physical details.

Exactly, which is how Monzo does it, and probably Starling too.

It's the obfuscation by using a different number in the app without properly explaining it that is poor.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Dec 2022 ==

Anyone who doesn’t have some understanding of app based banks is very unlikely to get an account.

This isn't a standard feature of app based banks. Neither Monzo nor Starling, the "big two" of app based banking, do it. You can have virtual cards but you know they are virtual cards.

 

[bubieyehyeh]

ToD is on it's last legs once TfL accept barcodes it will be dead and buried along with little orange tickets from the 80s.

My commute seem to not have e-tickets available. Its either orange bit of card or "the key".
I still have to use a ticket machine to use the key, since you can't buy day tickets online.
There is also keygo, but whats not permitted on the overground part of my commute.
I could commute to clapham on keygo, and then use oyster for overground.
However the ticket price to clapham is more than the price to my final destination.

So currently my preferred option is orange pieces of card, since I can pick them up the day before so dont need to queue for ticket machine in the morning.

So its seem I need either GTR or TFL to update systems before I have an alternative

 

[Alex365Dash]

I still have to use a ticket machine to use the key, since you can't buy day tickets online.

Some other TOCs allow you to buy day smartcard tickets on their respective app (I tend to like SWR’s but other TOCs are available!), but the problem with GTR’s fares for smartcards is instead of setting the fares to allow smartcard fulfilment, they’ve created dedicated smart fares at the same price which means I can buy a Grays to Zones 1-6 Travelcard (priced by c2c) onto my SWR smartcard on the SWR app, but not a Brighton to Zones 1-6 travelcard because I need this fare rather than this one.