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TOC to FOC, any regrets?

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Crazyb

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6 Dec 2014
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178
Is HH heavy haul?

How/why are those conditions different?

Yep, HH is Heavy Haul.

I can't even remember when HH was set up.....age and memory is not on my side, but anyway.....when HH was set up , we had the choice to move over from the start from Intermodal.

I think we were on 27k and HH was on 32k at the time, but someone will put me right.

At Intermodal we ran to British Rail conditions near enough, the purple book ( it's a book where you can find all BR conditions). This is why people liked the Freightliner. We had great conditions from the start but over the years that deteriorated, but anyway.

When HH set up, they never had any conditions really, hense the bigger salary. Thats it really...HH drivers were more flexible than Intermodal drivers. If you look at it now, HH drivers have time bands so rosters can put you on a job, say between midnight and 8 am, but you will not know what time you start until midday Thursday. At Intermodal you work like a TOC, you have a roster with WTT (working Time table) inside, so you know what you are doing in months in advance.

You drive a van at HH, Intermodal you don't, any passing you get a taxi.

HH, you work Ballast trains in the week and over wkends and BH's....Intermodal, we worked really Monday to Friday. Mind you, in bed all day Saturday from a Friday night !! and a Lieu day if you did have to cover shed on a BH.

At Intermodal, If you lodged, you would get a extra 3Hrs or 5hrs pay, You didn't get this at HH, Im not sure what they got. **** all knowing them.

At intermodal we also got additional payments, like off roster and if the diagram got extened, this boosted your money up, but non pensionable.

For me, I didn't see any benefit to moving to HH when it they it set up....I was young and didn't fancy not knowing what I was going to be working, especially with a young family at the time...and 5k difference then taxed wasn't worth it. But thats it really.

There was a lot of money to be earnt at HH though...Guys that I know were into the 70/80s and 100k marks, even so I'm glad I stayed put !!!!...You only get one life, and mine is not to spend at work.
 
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Dogbox

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Im not sure, but I'm there maybe a Intermodal depot at Donny now as well has a HH depot. When I worked for Freightliner they were still trying to set a depot up there, but HH guys were coving the work.

Im not sure if this is the case still.

I've worked for Freightliner the day it was set up basically, from being TUPED over from RFD. I'm now at a TOC.

I can't answer your question on time bands, I was a Intermodal driver, so I worked to a roster like a TOC.

Intermodal is the better, more regular work and more stable, but they are only on 45k, plus the 1800 sign on. Freightliner drivers are the lowest paid drivers, when once we were the 3rd highest.

For me, I loved the freight. I was brought up on it from the early age of 16/17 and gone through all the process of losing work to gaining work, no payrise's at Freightliner and the loss of drivers, over the years.

At a TOC, you defo get looked after, loads of benefits, nice mess rooms, free tea and coffee, no stupid night turns, no 4 hr movements off spare, no stupid start times (not at my depot), my last turn gets in just after midnight. But a BIG BUT, the work is boring, where the freight is different every day.

I left Freightliner due the company started to fall down massively when the yanks took over, also HH management started to put their nose in. At Freightliner Intermodal there has been a massive exit, over the country especially Ipswich, which have lost in the region of 15 drivers over the last year, also Tilbury in drabs and so at Leeds and Crewe. I think a couple went to VT at the new depot in Donny from Leeds.

There is still a low morale at Freightliner, a bit like they had at DB.

Another thing i have heard....Railway Rumour, is that GBRF is looking to come out the final pension salary and now Freightliner are looking into this. I'm not sure who this will affect, if everyone, or new drivers that will come into the company after a certain date, thats if true.

Travel....You won't get none, unless your protected.

I personally can't see the attraction of a FOC nowdays, apart from driving a big engine, but that soon wears off, especially starting a loco up at 3am on a winters night, freezing your nuts off and you don't finish until 13:00 !!!!

Even though you get weekends off at Intermodal, most Friday jobs are nights.....so your in bed most of Saturday, then you get a nice 3am start Monday. If you worked at HH, GBRF and DB, you have them lovely start times on at the weekends......the dreaded 00:01 starts for 12hrs on a ballast. Most times you don't even know what time you start until the last mintue !!!

Don't forget the Bank Holiday shuts downs and Xmas....good luck !!!

Sorry if I am putting you off....If your serious about this, I would definitely chat to a Freight driver from any company if you see any about. Some depots may be better than others.

For me, If Freightliner offered me the same salary what I'm on now to come back......That would be a big no from me....and I love the freight, but thats my choice.

I think the freight is starting to level out, but just be careful...If your going to choose HH, GBRF, or DB, see what the work is and how long the contracts are at them depots. Contracts change and after a few years will go to another company, some might stay, but you can never tell. Freight is now a dog eat dog culture and unfortunately it's us that get thrown out of the job.

There was a comment above, that last in first out does not apply. It does, maybe not at their company, but at others it does.
It works on seniority order. You can't just get rid of drivers. Normally, they will ask if the oldies want to retire, or maybe ask the medically restrictive, or if they have the money like at DB and HH, put in for the redundancy package (30k I think the HH drivers got, pending their contract), or a move. If no ones wants to leave, it then goes on seniority. If you both have the same seniority, it goes on age I think.

Also to add...When HH lost work up North the other year, drivers were having to have to go, but then they won a contract from DB. The Immingham flow I think. The guys thought they were safe, when in fact that was not the case. Because the new flow was over 50%, the DB guys got TUPED over to HH and the HH drivers got made reduntant...Thats the rules of TUPE.

Good luck what ever you choose.

Absolutely spot on. Think very carefully about leaving the safety of TOCs, Seniority still rules on freight.
 

TheEdge

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4,498
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Norwich
Another thing i have heard....Railway Rumour, is that GBRF is looking to come out the final pension salary and now Freightliner are looking into this. I'm not sure who this will affect, if everyone, or new drivers that will come into the company after a certain date, thats if true.

I was talking to a GBRF driver who mentioned this. The general gist was they all, not just new, are being offered two options, one is stay final salary but has some condition attached that makes it financially crippling or go into a new non final salary pension scheme.
 

cossie4i

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2 Jun 2014
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322
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Somerset
I have been on freight now for 3 years after moving from a TOC. I do have some regrets. The shift times are all over the place + longer. You can't plan what you are doing like on a TOC. A lot of night time work (I knew this) Sleeping and eating at normal times is rare. It does not make for a good Family life.
What I enjoy is having to DRIVE a train, every train you get on handles differently unlike units. Different weights, lengths, engines, wagons etc. It's nice not having to deal with the public.
It's also nice having a varied route knowledge, not doing the same thing over and over again.
It is a better life on a TOC but I like having to Drive a train so will stay with freight.
 

red2005

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9 May 2009
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844
Location
north ish
Purely horses for courses but this is one thing I don’t mind making a decision about without having experienced both Toc and Foc work. But in no way shape or form would I personally move to freight.

To many risks and insecurities for me..... highlighted by the vast differences in opinions from freight driver to freight driver on this post about how secure/insecure it is. If there’s opinion differences like that within the sector there’s no way I’d chance it as an outsider.

Not saying some don’t find it extremely enjoyable and that’s good to see..... but it would take lots more than that for me to risk it.
 
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