Time to ditch third rail? Snow pains = No trains

[A0]

Question for the drivers / track workers who work where the 3rd rail is.....How do you manage to avoid the third rail in snowy conditions - specifically when the snow covers the rails? There've been a few pics around where you can barely make out the different rails owing the amount of snow.

I have to say, I'd hate to be trackside knowing the 3rd rail is down there on a snowy night - or worse a dark, snowy night.

 

[b0b]

Having said that, I'd start with the Thameslink routes

I imagine that the Thameslink project which will reduce the number of conflicting paths, especially around London Bridge with dedicated Thameslink route track will substantially increase the reliability by itself.

 

[Class377/5]

Aye- Putting overheads on the Southern* should only be done once pretty much the rest of the UK has been done. Having said that, I'd start with the Thameslink routes, Overground routes and the Southern Trains route from Milton Keynes- ie Dual Voltage routes first. Southwestern sector would be the last to go OHL (if there's any sense).

*as in the old region, not the TOC- oh, and Merseyrail for that matter

There was aplan to part wire some of the Thameslink network as part of the TLP. Wires would have been extended from Farringdon all the way to Tulse Hill (don't ask why). Instead they reached City Thameslink.

 

[LE Greys]

There was aplan to part wire some of the Thameslink network as part of the TLP. Wires would have been extended from Farringdon all the way to Tulse Hill (don't ask why). Instead they reached City Thameslink.

With the limited clearance in the tunnels, I'm surprised they didn't go the other way and de-wire Farringdon-St Pancras, replacing with third rail.

 

[swt_passenger]

With the limited clearance in the tunnels, I'm surprised they didn't go the other way and de-wire Farringdon-St Pancras, replacing with third rail.

There obviously isn't that limited a clearance in the tunnels though, or they wouldn't have wired both up and down lines through Snow Hill to City Thameslink.

[There is a section temporarily de-energised and earthed to allow 375s and Networkers into Smithfield sidings, but that will be be sorted once the Blackfriars bays become available.]

Tulse Hill could have been a reasonable limit to the OHLE, because that might have once been the southern extent of tracks dedicated to the Thameslink through service. However once they decided that the Blackfriars bays would switch sides, there would be much less to be gained, as the route for DC trains into the bays then had to be via Tulse Hill, and a more significant length of complex dual electrification would then have been needed.

 

[jon0844]

Given the switchover is a potential problem (and delay) moving the changeover as far away from the central core seems like a good idea. Clearly, the ideal solution is to have overheads all the way to Brighton, but that's never going to be a priority - so many, many years away.

 

[LE Greys]

There obviously isn't that limited a clearance in the tunnels though, or they wouldn't have wired both up and down lines through Snow Hill to City Thameslink.

[There is a section temporarily de-energised and earthed to allow 375s and Networkers into Smithfield sidings, but that will be be sorted once the Blackfriars bays become available.]

Tulse Hill could have been a reasonable limit to the OHLE, because that might have once been the southern extent of tracks dedicated to the Thameslink through service. However once they decided that the Blackfriars bays would switch sides, there would be much less to be gained, as the route for DC trains into the bays then had to be via Tulse Hill, and a more significant length of complex dual electrification would then have been needed.

The gap between wires and train roof at King's Cross Thameslink looked like about six inches. To me, that's limited clearance.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

The gap between wires and train roof at King's Cross Thameslink looked like about six inches. To me, that's limited clearance.

Its similar upstairs on the new Kings Cross platform zero - not unlike the clearance in some tunnels.

 

[pendolino]

Janet Street-Porter showing an appalling amount of ignorance on the subject in a poorly researched (or more likely entirely unresearched?) piece in the Independent.

 

[LE Greys]

Janet Street-Porter showing an appalling amount of ignorance on the subject in a poorly researched (or more likely entirely unresearched?) piece in the Independent.

The newspapers would be the first to complain if we spent ££billions on tearing up a "perfectly adequate" system to convert everything to overhead wires.

 

[jon0844]

Actually, that's quite a well informed piece in my opinion.. although it is surprising that once she realised what third rail was - and the limitations - she then expected it to be possible to fix the problem without having to rip it all up and start again.

She's not dumb - I've heard her speaking at the London Transport Museum with TfL about the future of transport, and encouraging people to work from home (including how employers are yet to fully trust staff to do so) and how people can cope and remain social when working from home. She, as you might know, works mainly from home.

I guess she had a remit to be controversial and speak up for the troubled commuters, but the better idea would have been to try and explain WHY we had these problems and how it would cost a fortune to 'solve' and overhead lines have their own problems.

We've still had cold weather since and things have run, so two days of hell isn't that bad. Sure, we are likely to have more, but it's still not that big a deal - untill nothing moves for weeks on end.

 

[TGV]

Janet Street-Porter showing an appalling amount of ignorance on the subject in a poorly researched (or more likely entirely unresearched?) piece in the Independent.

My first thought was - "it doesn't snow in space"

 

[b0b]

It is possible to run a 3rd rail system in snow and have it work - the Chicago "L" system seems to be able to function in winter.

 

[MCR247]

Isn't it elevated most of the time when above ground?