• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Ticket Splits - What are the best UK ticket splits?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Perns1972

Member
Joined
17 Jul 2012
Messages
38
I hope you can help me with this - I'm keen to learn about the best ticket splits in the UK? And where should passengers look for splitting points that would save them money.

I'm most interested in intercity routes, but I'd like to hear about any stand out splits that you know about.

Also, what are the stand-out splitting points that passengers should look for?

Many thanks

Matt
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Deerfold

Veteran Member
Joined
26 Nov 2009
Messages
13,754
Location
Yorkshire
I hope you can help me with this - I'm keen to learn about the best ticket splits in the UK? And where should passengers look for splitting points that would save them money.

I'm most interested in intercity routes, but I'd like to hear about any stand out splits that you know about.

Also, what are the stand-out splitting points that passengers should look for?

Many thanks

Matt

What do you mean by "best"? Do you mean biggest saving, biggest percentage saving? Tickets that can be used on any train (there's some great splits but they need the train to call at a poorly-served station)?

Generally good places to look for good splitting points are the boundaries of PTEs and places that cause a ticket to not be priced by XC.

Some of the best are hard to describe in this way as they involve buying to or from a point that is not on your route.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
78,445
Location
Yorkshire
I assume you are asking specifically for "linear" splits, not involving starting or finishing short, and not involving Routeing Guide anomalies, for people who are not Season ticket holders?

(We'd best get that one in quick, otherwise....)

And is "best" the cheapest, e.g. splitting at a station such as Church Fenton with a train only every 2 hours but offers a bigger saving, or is "best" the quickest, such as splitting at a station such as Sheffield or Derby where all trains on the route call?

Making some assumptions as to what qualifies, I think the "best" I can come up with is York - Derby day return departing at 0826 or 0845. Cross Country want you to pay £89.50 for an Anytime Return (there is no Anytime Day Return)

However all trains call at Sheffield, so you get a York - Sheffield Anytime Day Return £19.80 and a Sheffield - Derby off-peak Day Return £10.80 totalling £30.60. Valid any train on the way back.

This reduces the price to around 1/3 of the fare with a simple split.
 

Paul Kelly

Verified Rep - BR Fares
Joined
16 Apr 2010
Messages
4,234
Location
Reading
Let's have a go at defining "best". How about "What's the biggest percentage saving you can make, using a direct train on an intercity route, with one linear split?"

My suggestion (again involving CrossCountry fares!) is for a day return from Reading to Coventry, travelling out on the 09:09 train (arrives Coventry 10:23), returning any time later that day.

The cheapest through fare valid for that journey is an Anytime Return, route Not Via London, priced at a jaw-dropping £99 (the Off-Peak return is not valid until 0930, making the first through train it can be used on the 10:10.).

With a single split at Banbury, you can buy the following combination:
Off-Peak Day Return Reading to Banbury (valid from 0900): £11.70
Anytime Day Return Banbury to Coventry: £13.

Total £24.70, a saving of £74.30, or 75%.
 

Perns1972

Member
Joined
17 Jul 2012
Messages
38
Thanks for your help with this one.

For best, I was thinking about money saved / % saved on a popular route. But this doesn't need to be too scientific.

Yorkie - Re trains which might not be too regular, I think it's fine to include them. But the more regular the trains the better.

I'm looking for linear routes and would like to avoid stopping short and any anomalies.
Thanks again,
Matt
 

soil

Established Member
Joined
28 May 2012
Messages
2,311
There are lots of places to split. It really depends on the ticket.

For instance on some long-distance trains such as London - Manchester or London - York, there might not be anywhere to split, if the train is running non-stop. (This does not preclude the use of loophole tickets of course.)

A key issue is the distinction between Day and Period.

For longer flows it's typical that returns and singles are valid for more than one day. These tickets are often much more expensive than day singles/returns, and splitting into two or more day singles can save.

Another one is the Network Railcard boundary.

Map is here:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/tickets/network-railcard-area.pdf

If you can split at the border (or before), you can potentially use a Network Railcard and save 1/3 off the ticket that is contained within the border. In addition, there will almost always be a Day Single available if you can split.

For example, Bristol - London is £93.50, at peak times for a single. A Day single Bristol - Didcot is £27 and Didcot - London £28.70. So the split saves £££.

Not all trains stop at Didcot, and if they don't, you will be charged.....

Some splits are relevant only at certain times of day, for example, Virgin fares between Rugby and London are ridiculous at peak times, but north from Rugby they don't really bother.

London - Manchester is priced for expense accounts, at £308 return peak, a distance of 184 miles. 82 of these are reaching Rugby, 100 are from Rugby to Manchester.

Yet Rugby - Manchester costs only £46.60 return, at any time.

According to NRE, for tomorrow you can catch a Virgin train to Rugby for only £15 (at 06:03 or 07:03), but that is an Advance ticket. So you could fairly easily do the journey for £76.60 return.
Even on the day, a London Midland Only return from London to Rugby is £69.

Of course this split doesn't fit with the train calling patterns, as there are few trains from Rugby to Manchester direct.

In general for splitting you will look up you fare on brfares.com. If you see it is priced by 'Crosscountry', it's almost certainly overpriced. By checking the stops that your train makes and the train operators running, you can split it into sections priced by other companies and save.

For example, while First Great Western fares between Swindon and Didcot, and Didcot and London are very high (at peak times at least), many of their other fares are very reasonable.

For immediate travel, a Didcot - Birmingham single is £42.50, at any time of day. Brfares shows this to be priced by Crosscountry, hence why it is such an obscene price.

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=DID&dest=0418

The route is Didcot - Oxford - Banbury - Birmingham.

Didcot - Banbury is primarily operated by First Great Western, and a ticket costs just £8.50 off-peak

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=DID&dest=BAN

Banbury - Birmingham is then a more reasonable £17

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=BAN&dest=BHM

Reducing the fare to £25.50

The existence of fare differentials between different operators and on different flows is what creates anomalies. Knowing that fares via Birmingham tend to be priced by Crosscountry and hence expensive but with cheaper fares on either side priced by London Midland, First Great Western, Arriva Trains Wales, and even Virgin, allows us most trivially to deconstruct an expensive journey into sections priced by cheaper TOCs rather than the through fare priced by Crosscountry, or on a more advanced basis to attempt to discover a fare valid over the longer journey that is priced by a different TOC.
 
Last edited:

hairyhandedfool

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2008
Messages
8,837
IMO, there are far to many variables for splits to even know if 'the best ticket' really is the best ticket. Soil has done a pretty good job of describing many of the issues, but sometimes there are rules which only apply to certain people.

As a simple example, if you are lucky enough to have a Railcard could pay around £217 for a through ticket from Bolton to London at 6am on a weekday (both ways), or you could spend £59 if you split at Manchester because of an easement Virgin Trains have. If you are not lucky you have to find another split or pay £329.
 
Last edited:

maniacmartin

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
15 May 2012
Messages
5,438
Location
Croydon
It would be much easier if you told us details of the journey you wish to make
 

ianhr

Member
Joined
17 Sep 2013
Messages
534
I assume you are asking specifically for "linear" splits, not involving starting or finishing short, and not involving Routeing Guide anomalies, for people who are not Season ticket holders?

(We'd best get that one in quick, otherwise....)

And is "best" the cheapest, e.g. splitting at a station such as Church Fenton with a train only every 2 hours but offers a bigger saving, or is "best" the quickest, such as splitting at a station such as Sheffield or Derby where all trains on the route call?

Making some assumptions as to what qualifies, I think the "best" I can come up with is York - Derby day return departing at 0826 or 0845. Cross Country want you to pay £89.50 for an Anytime Return (there is no Anytime Day Return)

However all trains call at Sheffield, so you get a York - Sheffield Anytime Day Return £19.80 and a Sheffield - Derby off-peak Day Return £10.80 totalling £30.60. Valid any train on the way back.

This reduces the price to around 1/3 of the fare with a simple split.

On this route for a day return trip it is also worth looking at the all day unlimited Derbyshire Wayfarer ticket £8.90 adult + one child, £4.45 concession (anyone >60 not just Derbyshire residents). This allows travel on Cross Country & EMT after 09.00 M-F & anytime w/e and covers Sheffield-Derby-Burton/Uttoxeter. It can take a big chunk out of Cross country fares from Yorkshire to the Midlands especially if you chose trains calling at Burton-on-Trent. A very flexible and good value ticket that not many people seem to know about. If you buy the scartch off date yourself version mine are valid until 2015 so getting around 2 more annual fares hikes!
 

gordonthemoron

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2006
Messages
6,727
Location
Milton Keynes
also, many journeys do not have advance tickets due to the use of more than one operator/train, in which case it can make sense to buy separate advance tickets to cover the journey
 

Smethwickian

Member
Joined
9 Feb 2011
Messages
740
Location
Errr, Smethwick!
On this route for a day return trip it is also worth looking at the all day unlimited Derbyshire Wayfarer ticket £8.90 adult + one child, £4.45 concession (anyone >60 not just Derbyshire residents).

Prices above are waaay out of date. Current Derbyshire Wayfarer cost: £11.60 for an adult (plus one child under 16). £5.80 for a senior citizen (aged 60 or over), a child under 16, or a holder of a Gold Card or other English National Concessionary Travel Scheme (ENCTS) pass. £21.00 for a group of up to two adults and up to three children. A dog may travel in place of a child.

Current details at http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/transp...rover_tickets/derbyshire_wayfarer/default.asp
 

ianhr

Member
Joined
17 Sep 2013
Messages
534
Prices above are waaay out of date. Current Derbyshire Wayfarer cost: £11.60 for an adult (plus one child under 16). £5.80 for a senior citizen (aged 60 or over), a child under 16, or a holder of a Gold Card or other English National Concessionary Travel Scheme (ENCTS) pass. £21.00 for a group of up to two adults and up to three children. A dog may travel in place of a child.

Current details at http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/transp...rover_tickets/derbyshire_wayfarer/default.asp

OK but a Sheffield-Burton day return is £24.90! so you would have to daft NOT to buy the Derbyshire Wayfarer even if the prices have gone up!
 

northwichcat

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
32,692
Location
Northwich
Splits where a PTE ticket/zonal become valid often offer the biggest savings.

Knutsford to Stalybridge is £13.70 return at any time.

Alternatively:
Knutsford to Hale is £4.30 off-peak day return
Hale to Stalybridge is £4.10 off-peak day return
Total = £8.40

A saving of 38%

But if you're travelling with an outbound journey between 18:30 and 20:30:
Knutsford to Hale is £2.15 evening return
Hale to Stalybridge is £2.05 evening return
Total = £4.20

A saving of 69%.

(Hale to Stalybridge also includes a free cross-Manchester transfer on Metrolink which is useful if the next Stalybridge train departs from Victoria opposed to Piccadilly.)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

John @ home

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2008
Messages
5,148
Is the OP an ATOC spy? ;)
Examination of the posts by Perns1972 suggests that it is more likely that assistance received from forum members when s/he was incorrectly accused by FCC of using an invalid combination of tickets has generated a wider interest in railway fares, tickets and routeing. I would suggest Perns1972 should come to a fares workshop (if that hasn't already happened).
 

Buttsy

Established Member
Joined
20 May 2011
Messages
1,374
Location
Hanborough
A while ago I went on a day trip to Sheffield from Oxford on a Saturday. the cheapest advance was £75 return, however, by buying cheap day returns Oxford - Leamington, Leamington - Birmingham, Birmingham - Derby and Derby - Sheffield, I was able to do it for £40, a saving of 47% and didn't need to change trains at all. The other advantage was that I could pick and choose which trains I used rather than be restricted to one train only.
 

Perns1972

Member
Joined
17 Jul 2012
Messages
38
You're right - I work for Which? Forum members helped me out of a personal penalty fare problem I was faced with and I met some of the guys at the most recent London meet.
 
Last edited:

maniacmartin

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
15 May 2012
Messages
5,438
Location
Croydon
It's mostly to do with who sets the fares. Each fare in the country is allocated to one operator (the lead operator) who sets the fare for that ticket. The fare setters are shown on http://www.brfares.com/

Long distance intercity operators (especially Cross Country) have been generally raising prices faster than local operators, so one trick is to split a long distance journey into tickets where the most itineraries are by a local operator, as these will probably be priced by the local operator.

Of course you can't just split anywhere, as in most cases the train has to call (see section 19 of the NRCoC), but with Cross Country, they call at many stations that other operators do.
 

RJ

Established Member
Joined
25 Jun 2005
Messages
8,825
Location
Back office
Market Harborough is a good splitting point on the Midland Mainline, as is Bedford.
 
Joined
29 Sep 2013
Messages
163
I hope you can help me with this - I'm keen to learn about the best ticket splits in the UK? And where should passengers look for splitting points that would save them money.

I'm most interested in intercity routes, but I'd like to hear about any stand out splits that you know about.

Also, what are the stand-out splitting points that passengers should look for?

Many thanks

Matt

Nothing as simple as the best on XC. A couple of months ago I travelled Manchester to Exeter, Advance ticket £114.50. Manchester to Stoke, Stoke to New St, New St to Cheltenham, Cheltenham to Temple Meads, Temple Meads to Taunton, Taunton to Exeter, 6 Advance tickets on exactly the same through train £58. I even managed to reserve the same seat throughout.:D

6 single Anytime tickets totalled only £88.
 

Goatboy

Established Member
Joined
23 Jun 2011
Messages
2,274
XC is amazing really - clearly they felt the capacity existed on that service (Though I'd wager it probably didn't!) to offer those 6 seperate advance tickets at cheap prices so quite why they price the through Advance so high I've no idea. I often notice that the XC Advance is sometimes a matter of PENCE cheaper than the fully flexible walkon ticket. Just whats the point?
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
78,445
Location
Yorkshire
XC is amazing really - clearly they felt the capacity existed on that service (Though I'd wager it probably didn't!) to offer those 6 seperate advance tickets at cheap prices so quite why they price the through Advance so high I've no idea. I often notice that the XC Advance is sometimes a matter of PENCE cheaper than the fully flexible walkon ticket. Just whats the point?
To catch people out and to grab the revenue for themselves, and avoid sharing it through ORCATS.

There was a thread a while back where it was revealed that on several flows XC have Advance fares at a higher price than the Anytime fare, and some booking engines are designed in a way that appears to encourage you to purchase them.

I think that XC have realised there is a market for people (generally older people or business people) who just want a direct train, and will pay whatever the going rate for it is, and they want to rake in that money, while at the same time realising that more savvy passengers will not use XC if there is no way to get it cheaper, and they don't want to lose their custom either.

For example York - Bristol used to be cheaper on Virgin XC, but now under Arriva, it costs a fortune, so if I book far in advance, it's cheaper to split in London and avoid XC completely! But for walk-up travel, it's expensive via London, but I can still afford to use XC by splitting at Sheffield, Derby, Birmingham and Cheltenham (well that's where XC expect you to split - in reality I'd use rather different tickets, which XC would get withdrawn if they knew about them, but that's over-complicating things).

XC are so bonkers on trying to bring in revenue that they actualy lose it: a guard refused to issue the excess I wanted on a ticket for a journey I was making later, from an unstaffed station, on the basis he was only allowed to issue Anytime excesses! I got the excess elsewhere, though it was never inspected on the XC train which I used it on.

There's logic, then there's XC logic.

 

PermitToTravel

Established Member
Joined
21 Dec 2011
Messages
3,042
Location
Groningen
XC is amazing really - clearly they felt the capacity existed on that service (Though I'd wager it probably didn't!) to offer those 6 seperate advance tickets at cheap prices so quite why they price the through Advance so high I've no idea. I often notice that the XC Advance is sometimes a matter of PENCE cheaper than the fully flexible walkon ticket. Just whats the point?

Booking engines will automatically select this, as it is cheaper than a walk on ticket. This is beneficial for XC as they then get much more of the revenue than they would with a flexible ticket as they don't have to share it with other TOCs. Furthermore, if you miss your train, they gain the extra revenue of you buying a second ticket.

edit: damn, beaten to it
 
Last edited:

Goatboy

Established Member
Joined
23 Jun 2011
Messages
2,274
Booking engines will automatically select this, as it is cheaper than a walk on ticket. This is beneficial for XC as they then get much more of the revenue than they would with a flexible ticket as they don't have to share it with other TOCs. Furthermore, if you miss your train, they gain the extra revenue of you buying a second ticket.

This seems entirely underhanded and surely against the spirit of what the system was intended for. Are other TOC's happy for them to do this?

The other amazing thing is that if you board your wedged Voyager with your £114.50 one way Advance ticket and take up your position squashed against the toilet door at the weekend, you can't even pay for Weekend First as they ban Advance ticket holders from it..

(not that you can use anyone else to travel from Bristol to Birmingham, obviously)
 
Last edited:

maniacmartin

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
15 May 2012
Messages
5,438
Location
Croydon
Are other TOC's happy for them to do this?

It's becoming more common with other TOCs too. If not APs, then with TOCNAME ONLY tickets that are only marginally cheaper than Any Permitted. Its a sneaky way to slowly erode interavailability and flexibility for passengers.
 

bb21

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
24,465
Nothing as simple as the best on XC. A couple of months ago I travelled Manchester to Exeter, Advance ticket £114.50. Manchester to Stoke, Stoke to New St, New St to Cheltenham, Cheltenham to Temple Meads, Temple Meads to Taunton, Taunton to Exeter, 6 Advance tickets on exactly the same through train £58. I even managed to reserve the same seat throughout.:D

6 single Anytime tickets totalled only £88.

These tickets are designed to compete in totally different markets for local, medium-distance and long-distance travel, not that it excuses the complete absurdity of the situation.

Remember that local flows are often priced by another TOC so XC may well get very little of the ORCATS revenue for them, hence a very low price would likely give them more revenue, whereas a much bigger proportion of medium-distance and long-distance journeys on routes they serve would be priced by them.

This seems entirely underhanded and surely against the spirit of what the system was intended for. Are other TOC's happy for them to do this?

I believe that is in the name of "competition" and the government would probably be perfectly happy with it.

The other amazing thing is that if you board your wedged Voyager with your £114.50 one way Advance ticket and take up your position squashed against the toilet door at the weekend, you can't even pay for Weekend First as they ban Advance ticket holders from it..

(not that you can use anyone else to travel from Bristol to Birmingham, obviously)

If it's an Advance then you will have a reserved seat, well, if you can get to it. ;)
 

soil

Established Member
Joined
28 May 2012
Messages
2,311
These tickets are designed to compete in totally different markets for local, medium-distance and long-distance travel, not that it excuses the complete absurdity of the situation.


Indeed, they tend to be priced around the same as Virgin and East Coast for similar journeys.

You can deconstruct Virgin fares too, using cheaper London Midland and/or Northern fares but because they don't stop so often, it's harder to do.

Actually XC are one of the most heavily subsidised TOCs, per mile
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top