Ticket machine row.

[Bletchleyite]

The real solutions is of course sufficient ticket machines and open ticket windows, and developing smarter ticket options so I don't even need to go and collect - then have problems if they don't print properly and are marked as issued or voided due to the TVM crashing part way through printing (as recently happened to me). That was fun to sort!

The simple answer to this, at a possible loss to the railway because of their machine being rubbish, is that the process that marks the tickets as issued should be the last thing that runs. Thus a crash or other failure would leave the booking unissued.

This is basic IT functionality. You don't complete the transaction until you have confirmed all actions have occurred. If they haven't, you roll it back (to the best of your ability, accepting that it isn't possible to unprint printed tickets, of course).

FWIW a small station only really justifies one machine, so those wishing to do long, complicated transactions at it need to use a bit of consideration. Larger stations need more machines, of course. And the new Advance format improves printing speed by reducing the number of coupons - stopping printing nonsense like the collection receipt and having card receipts issued only on demand (or by a separate till roll printer as the newer machines do) provides an improvement here.

 

[talldave]

An additional aspect is for the machines to run as fast as possible. At Gravesend (up side) there are two identical looking machines - one prints ToD at a sensible pace the other runs like a snail and pauses for an age between tickets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

FWIW, why not print walk-ups in the new Advance format if they have reservations as well? All it would need is a note saying "valid by other trains, see nationalrail.co.uk/8A" or similar.

They are quicker to issue, easier to understand and use. What's the disbenefit?

 

[najaB]

In which situation it is certainly polite to step aside. A manned ticket window would probably request them to do so, inviting them to return in front of the queue in the event of a problem.

The difference being that a manned ticket office window won't walk off with any missed coupons.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The difference being that a manned ticket office window won't walk off with any missed coupons.

Though a manned ticket window certainly can make issuing errors, I have had it happen on a couple of occasions.

 

[najaB]

Though a manned ticket window certainly can make issuing errors, I have had it happen on a couple of occasions.

Agreed. But generally speaking the customer can get those errors corrected without having to chase someone around the station.

 

[bb21]

Though a manned ticket window certainly can make issuing errors, I have had it happen on a couple of occasions.

They can at manned ticket windows, but in the event of a mistake such as a missing coupon, it is unlikely the clerk would not notice it.

I also find that at manned ticket offices, if buying for multiple journeys, the clerk normally hands them over in batches, so much easier to sort through than a jumble of cards given by a ticket machine.

 

[mikaroony]

I always check I have all the tickets before leaving the machine, its all too easy to leave one behind

 

[onlinespotting]

Witnessed an incident yesterday. I was using a ticket machine and the bloke at the machine next to mine was removing tickets from the hopper, then he stood there looking through them. Whereupon the guy who'd been queueing behind me went up to him and said 'can you go and check them somewhere else'. Bloke replied 'how about you wait till I've finished here', to which the second chap said 'look, just move mate'. First bloke put the tickets in his pocket and went towards the barriers, shouting at the second chap to go and have sex with himself. I was collecting a TOD rather than travelling so left the station and didn't see what (if anything) happened after that.

Leaving aside the language, was the first bloke right to stand at the machine checking his tickets or should he have moved away to let someone else use the machine?

Yes! I moved away from a ticket machine with a queue and didn't realise a ticket was missing until the platform. I went to the ticket office who simply went to check the machine an luckily the missing ticket was there. The guy at the ticket office said if it hadn't have been they wouldn't have been able to replace them!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Btw I was collecting advanced tickets if that makes a difference

 

[talldave]

Yes! I moved away from a ticket machine with a queue and didn't realise a ticket was missing until the platform. I went to the ticket office who simply went to check the machine an luckily the missing ticket was there. The guy at the ticket office said if it hadn't have been they wouldn't have been able to replace them!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Btw I was collecting advanced tickets if that makes a difference

It doesn't. If the machine thinks your session is finished, you're screwed if something hasn't come out. You can try to get staff to look inside the machine, but if there's nothing there, you're on your own.

 

[londonbridge]

I always check I have all the tickets before leaving the machine, its all too easy to leave one behind

It looked to me as though that's what the guy was trying to do only the chap behind was too impatient to let him finish.

 

[Saint66]

Always check my tickets before departing the machine, though it doesn't take me too long to do so at all.

Earlier this year I was travelling from Leeds to London with a friend (Only her second time visiting the capital) who went to the machine, got the tickets, didn't check that she had picked them all up, got to the barrier line, and found one part missing, preventing her from getting through... Thankfully, we had gotten to the station twenty minutes before departure, so she managed to get it sorted at the travel office, having gone back to the machine to find no ticket left behind, and we boarded with a few minutes to spare.

It can be surprisingly easy to leave a ticket behind, especially if you're not sure how many individual tickets and receipts you will be receiving.

 

[BestWestern]

An interesting point - personally if I was about to miss a train I'd want to be able to abandon the credit card receipt/collection receipt. Indeed, I don't entirely understand why those are issued by default, most people just bin them. It would be in my view quite acceptable to issue those only on demand - shops (such as M&S Simply Food in stations, and Co-op branches) are increasingly having staff ask if you want one rather than just issuing by default.

Some do like to reconcile their bills by going through slips, so it has to remain an option, but these days most don't, and it's questionable whether it is necessary because there are few ways in these days of EPOS that an incorrect transaction amount (different from that for which the PIN is entered) can end up being posted - it has certainly never happened to me since the days of manual imprint machines, and even then it wasn't common.

It is an interesting point.

From my personal observations, it appears to me that the receipt is in fact always produced, and it is merely a case of the staff asking if you need/want it. That is now seemingly common practice, which I suspect may have been driven by a combination of some retailers introducing it as policy, and customers then simply declining the receipt in other establishments elsewhere. Either way, it makes little sense nowadays to waste so much time and effort printing bits of paper very few people want. You only have to look at the floor around a car park pay machine to see a forest of uncollected till roll. The crucial question, I suppose, is whether it is some sort of requirement to provide a receipt, or merely customary? Even if it wasn't mandatory though, I suspect that the cost of modifiying software and equipment to make a receipt optional will prevent any such development happening on existing hardware.

 

[pitdiver]

It's a bit like the 'baskets only' checkout in supermarkets. Little old ladies may just have a basket, but by the time they have sorted out a handful of coupons and fumbled around for their purse (and nowadays their carrier bag), the people behind would have been better off going to an ordinary checkout.

Makes a bit of a nonsense having a 'rapid ticket machine' if you have to wait in a slow queue to use it.

However I can see both sides of the OP's situation, and depending on which role I was in I would be sure I was in the right!

Can't agree more about basket checkouts. However I work in a Supermarket we are told not to send customers to other checkouts if they have a trolley and come to the basket checkouts. This can make the above situation even worse!

 

[Deepgreen]

Bloke behind probably hadn't left plenty of time to get his train and was in a rush to get tickets. So shouts at guy in front of him in order to blame everybody apart from himself.

Yes, because having a short time to catch a train is ALWAYS one's own fault. It's NEVER the case that a connecting service is badly late, or that you had a flat tyre or that the traffic was at a stand because someone had been killed on the road. None of these things ever happen and everyone should be exactly where they need to be exactly on time - no exceptions. Doesn't excuse the language, BTW.

 

[northwichcat]

I was once using one of the old Metrolink TVMs at Altrincham on a day the trains weren't running due to a strike and it was only taking exact change and I had exact change but it was taking 30 seconds or so to feed it all in and an old man said to me "Are you going to be long using that machine?" Then a much younger lady said to him "It's OK Dad, there's a tram every few minutes."
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Can't agree more about basket checkouts. However I work in a Supermarket we are told not to send customers to other checkouts if they have a trolley and come to the basket checkouts. This can make the above situation even worse!

One Tesco store I occasionally go in always seem to run out of baskets so I've had to take a small trolley on occasions when I would have preferred a basket. Maybe it's due to sometimes running out of baskets that management don't want to enforce baskets only strictly?

 

[EAD]

No easy way of judging who is in the right - as someone said six of one half a dozen of the other and everyone has a different view/tolerance when it comes to waiting.

I do always check TOD in particular have all been printed correctly as soon as I remove them from the machine. This does not take long though and usually I am done and off just as the machine is going back to the home screen for the next passenger. Certainly in the London area, one of the big problems is people leave the receipts (and possibly also actual tickets by mistake) in the collection tray. As a result I always check I have got my tickets. Another issue is how slowly some machines print - I think this adds to some people's sense of frustration if they have been waiting behind you while you then reach in and fish them all out.

I have had things go wrong with ticket printing before, hence a quick check before moving away. The fact many journeys will produce a large number of tickets and then there is the wait for the receipt to drop (often slightly apart from the tickets) does not help.

 

[al78]

What is the best thing to do if I am collecting tickets from a machine and for some reason one coupon doesn't get printed? Is it simply to find a member of staff and explain the situation? If so, what happens when there isn't a member of staff around, because I tried to collect the tickets at a time when the station staff have gone home for the night?

 

[jon0844]

Once you go to find someone you can't prove someone else didn't take the ticket. In fact, you can't prove you didn't just hide it in your pocket.

You're pretty much buggered whatever, so the machines should have sensors to make 100% sure a ticket printed and dropped down for collection.

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

 

[Master29]

Standing at the machine can be a bit of a pain to those behind you, especially when there is a queue. Let`s be reasonable here; we all need to check our tickets however. I often buy multiple tickets so that can take some time. The best way is to move to one side and allow the flow of travellers to buy their tickets. If there ever was an issue, which thankfully, there hasn`t been, you are in eyeshot of the machine and can always politely ask the person who was behind you in the queue that you may need to check something.

 

[Trackman]

some people do faff at them, but I have patience, once they know how to use them they will be quicker next time. In fact sometimes I offer to help.
I'll never forget the time I used a TVM with the new style tickets, I saw it print the ticket and receipt and I thought 'No outbound ticket or seat reservations!' I was just stood there perplexed for a few minutes and scratching my head!!

 

[Ianno87]

Yes, because having a short time to catch a train is ALWAYS one's own fault. It's NEVER the case that a connecting service is badly late, or that you had a flat tyre or that the traffic was at a stand because someone had been killed on the road. None of these things ever happen and everyone should be exactly where they need to be exactly on time - no exceptions. Doesn't excuse the language, BTW.

Still not a good excuse for shouting at/being rude to the person in front of you. It's not their fault.

 

[trainophile]

It's quite confusing that when buying a new ticket from a machine, as opposed to collecting a pre-bought one, it doesn't appear to allow for a Railcard discount until you have selected your journey and gone to the next page.

I initially thought "oh, I can't have a Railcard discount from the machine", and for a while I went to the counter instead, on the odd occasion that I hadn't bought one online that is.

The machine procedures could be simplified a bit I think, as not everyone is a regular or confident user of them.

 

[Starmill]

FWIW a small station only really justifies one machine, so those wishing to do long, complicated transactions at it need to use a bit of consideration. Larger stations need more machines, of course. And the new Advance format improves printing speed by reducing the number of coupons - stopping printing nonsense like the collection receipt and having card receipts issued only on demand (or by a separate till roll printer as the newer machines do) provides an improvement here.

Even a small station only having one machine and nothing else might be looked down upon in a Penalty Fares area - or an aspiring one, as at Northern.

 

[EAD]

A little consideration both ways goes a long way, clearly if there are not many machines, no manned point of sale etc it makes sense to not pick up TOD tickets for a future date when a train is due or let people go first.

I remember one boxing day late afternoon where I went to renew my annual travelcard at Wimbledon. My timing/options were constrained by Christmas and being out of the country from the next morning until into the New Year (thus missing renewing at the lower price for the current year). It was very quiet as expected and the usual bank of ticket machines were all working. There were 2 windows open from memory and I queued up, though one closed while I was waiting.

Now, as I was looking to load my travelcard on Oyster, but with the benefit of it being SWT issued so I benefit from any season reduction on renewal as a user of their services, I had no choice but to use the ticket office. The lady serving me was fully versed in this, but the process did take a while (unexpectedly slow on this occasion). I apologised to the people behind me who were fine, but then this guy in the queue behind starts barracking and then just loses it and comes up to confront me and the poor lady serving me ranting on about why could I not do this elsewhere, etc. We both explained that unfortunately the system was being slow and I could not buy this elsewhere etc. He would have none of it and the poor ticket clerk had to warn him to step away and stop abusing her and me!

Unfortunately he descended into obscenities and his poor partner had to try to calm him down. The irony, as I did point out to him numerous times, was that the ticket he wanted was very simple and available from the machines behind him - i.e. a ticket for both of them into town for that evening! I had sympathy for others in the queue and they all were making similar transactions that the ticket machines could not do. I had no sympathy for him of course.

 

[Deepgreen]

Still not a good excuse for shouting at/being rude to the person in front of you. It's not their fault.

Hence my final sentence in my post.