Ticket machine row.

[londonbridge]

Witnessed an incident yesterday. I was using a ticket machine and the bloke at the machine next to mine was removing tickets from the hopper, then he stood there looking through them. Whereupon the guy who'd been queueing behind me went up to him and said 'can you go and check them somewhere else'. Bloke replied 'how about you wait till I've finished here', to which the second chap said 'look, just move mate'. First bloke put the tickets in his pocket and went towards the barriers, shouting at the second chap to go and have sex with himself. I was collecting a TOD rather than travelling so left the station and didn't see what (if anything) happened after that.

Leaving aside the language, was the first bloke right to stand at the machine checking his tickets or should he have moved away to let someone else use the machine?

 

[221129]

Witnessed an incident yesterday. I was using a ticket machine and the bloke at the machine next to mine was removing tickets from the hopper, then he stood there looking through them. Whereupon the guy who'd been queueing behind me went up to him and said 'can you go and check them somewhere else'. Bloke replied 'how about you wait till I've finished here', to which the second chap said 'look, just move mate'. First bloke put the tickets in his pocket and went towards the barriers, shouting at the second chap to go and have sex with himself. I was collecting a TOD rather than travelling so left the station and didn't see what (if anything) happened after that.

Leaving aside the language, was the first bloke right to stand at the machine checking his tickets or should he have moved away to let someone else use the machine?

I'd say the first bloke was in the right definitely.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I would consider it wise to always check the tickets are correct before leaving the machine, but it shouldn't take more than a few seconds to do so - it sounds as if he was standing there for ages really studying them; that would be unreasonable.

Was the machine dispensing the new format tickets by any chance?

 

[dviner]

Leaving aside the language, was the first bloke right to stand at the machine checking his tickets or should he have moved away to let someone else use the machine?

He was right to check before moving, as he may have needed to refer to something on the machine if there was a problem.

 

[londonbridge]

Was the machine dispensing the new format tickets by any chance?

Nope.

 

[najaB]

Leaving aside the language, was the first bloke right to stand at the machine checking his tickets or should he have moved away to let someone else use the machine?

I know that Conditions of Carriage would have been the furthest away from either of their minds but:

21. Buying tickets
As soon as you can, you should check that the details shown on the ticket are consistent with the journey you intend to make and that you have received the correct change. If you think a mistake has been made you should tell the person who sold you the ticket as soon as possible.

 

[Lincoln]

Cases like this remind me of people using cash machines. What is a reasonable amount of time to finish up and let the next person in the queue use the machine depends upon each individual.

What is ok for one person, is excessive to another and so on.

 

[route:oxford]

Cases like this remind me of people using cash machines. What is a reasonable amount of time to finish up and let the next person in the queue use the machine depends upon each individual.

What is ok for one person, is excessive to another and so on.

That's never usually an issue with an ATM...

It's usually people who forget why they've stood there for 2-3 minutes queueing and have to think how much they want to withdraw when the machine offers the options.

Aargh.

 

[Camden]

Issue is the tickets and the stupid amount of card you typically get. 5 individual pieces of card for one return, usually.

(And the attempt to improve this is abysmal. Tiny text, hard to see what ticket is in/out etc).

You should always make sure you've got all parts of your "ticket" before you leave the machine, and it's not always quick and easy to do that.

 

[Ediswan]

Issue is the tickets and the stupid amount of card you typically get. 5 individual pieces of card for one return, usually.

(And the attempt to improve this is abysmal. Tiny text, hard to see what ticket is in/out etc).

You should always make sure you've got all parts of your "ticket" before you leave the machine, and it's not always quick and easy to do that.

Agreed. I once did an online booking for three people, two singles each, one set advances. Thirteen bits of card came out. I had to go and find a place with a flat surface and decent lighting to work out whether what I had taken from the machine made up a usable set of tickets. (They did.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Leaving aside the language, was the first bloke right to stand at the machine checking his tickets or should he have moved away to let someone else use the machine?

As soon as the machine had finished printing tickets he should have taken them all then stepped aside to check. Basic politeness not to block the machine when he no longer had need of it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I would consider it wise to always check the tickets are correct before leaving the machine

You can of course do this by stepping to the side of the machine, meaning if there is a problem you can return immediately (and if the problem is a stuck ticket it'll usually be spat out when the next purchase is made).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's usually people who forget why they've stood there for 2-3 minutes queueing and have to think how much they want to withdraw when the machine offers the options.

The same people, no doubt, who seem to be taken by surprise by the fact that you have to pay / touch your Oyster card when you board a bus, and stand there looking for cash / the Oyster card delaying the bus and other passengers as they do so. Unless you have some particular reason not to e.g. having a lot of luggage or a pram, have it in your hand before you signal the bus to stop. It's not hard
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You should always make sure you've got all parts of your "ticket" before you leave the machine, and it's not always quick and easy to do that.

But you don't have to block the machine while doing so, you can stand to the side of it. Most likely if you have forgotten something, the next user will notice, and as it's not likely to be of value to them will not wish to keep it and will know who you are to hand it to you.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Agreed. I once did an online booking for three people, two singles each, one set advances. Thirteen bits of card came out. I had to go and find a place with a flat surface and decent lighting to work out whether what I had taken from the machine made up a usable set of tickets. (They did.)

I've done more than that. Several sets of old-style GroupSave 4 + 4 kids, all on the same booking, anyone? Took a good 10 minutes to print them all[1]. Yes, I did go at an off peak time and step aside to lay them all out to check.

[1] The railway are their own worst enemy with this kind of thing. I'd happily have a group ticket with everyone on the same bit of card for these trips, but as the discount is poor and in some cases only off Advances I used to use GroupSave and now use Family/Network Railcards. Even buying the Railcard you usually get a better deal than a proper group booking. This is nonsense.

 

[najaB]

As soon as the machine had finished printing tickets he should have taken them all then stepped aside to check. Basic politeness not to block the machine when he no longer had need of it.

Unlike a cash machine where it's relatively easy to tell if you have all your money, it's not always obvious that all your ticket coupons have printed.

You can of course do this by stepping to the side of the machine, meaning if there is a problem you can return immediately (and if the problem is a stuck ticket it'll usually be spat out when the next purchase is made).

And into the hands/wallet/purse of the person who was behind you in the queue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And into the hands/wallet/purse of the person who was behind you in the queue.

It's likely to be little use to them, so they would not do that intentionally. And of course you would have time to check your tickets while they were making their purchase and waiting for it to print, so if you noticed something missing you then return to the machine you are standing by and point it out to them, so if they do get an extra one they know it's yours.

 

[najaB]

It's likely to be little use to them, so they would not do that intentionally. And of course you would have time to check your tickets while they were making their purchase and waiting for it to print, so if you noticed something missing you then return to the machine you are standing by and point it out to them, so if they do get an extra one they know it's yours.

That assumes that they aren't away before you realise (which I suppose is quite possible given how slow some machines are) and that they will co-operate with you. The kind of person who is going to tell someone to have sex with themselves is just as likely to laugh and walk off when you tell them they've got your ticket.

 

[mark-h]

A lot of people don't look at tickets until it is too late.

I used to work at a cinema which had some automated credit card ticket machines. These issued the credit card receipt first, and then the tickets. Unfortunately this meant that a lot of customers would not collect the last ticket as they thought the credit card receipt was one of the tickets.

They seemed to think that 3 ticket and a credit card receipt for 4 was proof that they should go in - for all the staff know they could have given the missing ticket to a mate and got 5 people in for the price of 4. Alternatively somebody could have taken the last ticket got in for free.

Some of the rail ticket machines lock the collection tray until they have printed the last ticket, this is a good idea as it saves people from their own lack of observance. Printing the tickets first is also better as it reduces the chance of people collecting the wrong slips.

We also had customers insert their card into a machine that was not switched on and had nothing on the display. This was a pain as it was difficult to remove cards from the reader when this happened (this was before the current chip and pin readers where the card can be removed at any time).

 

[GB]

As soon as the machine had finished printing tickets he should have taken them all then stepped aside to check. Basic politeness not to block the machine when he no longer had need of it.

Well you don't know if you need the machine again until you have checked them do you? For all anyone else knew, he may have wanted to print another route.

Basic politeness goes both ways, as does a little understanding and patience.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well you don't know if you need the machine again until you have checked them do you?

Hence why you stand to the side of the machine.

For all anyone else knew, he may have wanted to print another route.

Then if busy he should have started that printing straight away, checking the others while it was printing.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Some of the rail ticket machines lock the collection tray until they have printed the last ticket, this is a good idea as it saves people from their own lack of observance.

An interesting point - personally if I was about to miss a train I'd want to be able to abandon the credit card receipt/collection receipt. Indeed, I don't entirely understand why those are issued by default, most people just bin them. It would be in my view quite acceptable to issue those only on demand - shops (such as M&S Simply Food in stations, and Co-op branches) are increasingly having staff ask if you want one rather than just issuing by default.

Some do like to reconcile their bills by going through slips, so it has to remain an option, but these days most don't, and it's questionable whether it is necessary because there are few ways in these days of EPOS that an incorrect transaction amount (different from that for which the PIN is entered) can end up being posted - it has certainly never happened to me since the days of manual imprint machines, and even then it wasn't common.

 

[cornishjohn]

Hence why you stand to the side of the machine.

But you still need to check you have all of your 11+ pieces of card in the first place. You step aside, the next person picks up the remainder of your ticket with theirs, while you are still counting, and walks off with it. What do you do then?

 

[Bletchleyite]

But you still need to check you have all of your 11+ pieces of card in the first place. You step aside, the next person picks up the remainder of your ticket with theirs, while you are still counting, and walks off with it. What do you do then?

How long does it take you to count your tickets? Buying a ticket from a TVM, paying, waiting for it to print and taking it takes upwards of a minute if done very quickly. Most people are slower than that.

 

[Antman]

Cases like this remind me of people using cash machines. What is a reasonable amount of time to finish up and let the next person in the queue use the machine depends upon each individual.

What is ok for one person, is excessive to another and so on.

Exactly, there really is no right or wrong answer to this one.

 

[najaB]

How long does it take you to count your tickets?

Me? 30 seconds or so, but that's because I do it often and generally know exactly what to expect. Someone who is less familiar with tickets - especially if they have multiple coupons per leg - could easily take a couple or minutes or more.

Buying a ticket from a TVM, paying, waiting for it to print and taking it takes upwards of a minute if done very quickly. Most people are slower than that.

Again, if I know exactly what ticket I want the slowest part is waiting for the ticket to print - I can be away in under a minute.

 

[cornishjohn]

How long does it take you to count your tickets?

I have never timed myself. But with a) arthritis b) poor eyesight and c) nerve damage to my left arm, possibly longer than the average bear.

Buying a ticket from a TVM, paying, waiting for it to print and taking it takes upwards of a minute if done very quickly.

I don't recall the last time I collected a ticket on departure being very long at all however. Insert credit card. Whirr. Whirr. Job done. Quicker than I expected certainly.

Would you rather I held you up by being in front of you while arguing with a ticket collector because I have a missing coupon?

 

[jon0844]

It would help if all TVMs operated the same. Some issue a card receipt whether you ask or not, others don't. Straight away you've got people getting a different number of tickets depending what machine they use in the same station!

And I've collected tickets where I need to use multiple reference numbers. So I enter card, code, get tickets and then repeat. No doubt someone behind is cursing me, but do I step aside and rejoin the queue to collect two tickets?

Again, SOME machines will I believe recognise more than one booking tied to a card and offer to print them all, but again most people won't know by looking at the machine.

 

[Ianno87]

Witnessed an incident yesterday. I was using a ticket machine and the bloke at the machine next to mine was removing tickets from the hopper, then he stood there looking through them. Whereupon the guy who'd been queueing behind me went up to him and said 'can you go and check them somewhere else'. Bloke replied 'how about you wait till I've finished here', to which the second chap said 'look, just move mate'. First bloke put the tickets in his pocket and went towards the barriers, shouting at the second chap to go and have sex with himself. I was collecting a TOD rather than travelling so left the station and didn't see what (if anything) happened after that.

Leaving aside the language, was the first bloke right to stand at the machine checking his tickets or should he have moved away to let someone else use the machine?

Bloke behind probably hadn't left plenty of time to get his train and was in a rush to get tickets. So shouts at guy in front of him in order to blame everybody apart from himself.

 

[DarloRich]

such a fuss about nothing. Many posters seem to live in such a black and white world.

 

[trainophile]

It's a bit like the 'baskets only' checkout in supermarkets. Little old ladies may just have a basket, but by the time they have sorted out a handful of coupons and fumbled around for their purse (and nowadays their carrier bag), the people behind would have been better off going to an ordinary checkout.

Makes a bit of a nonsense having a 'rapid ticket machine' if you have to wait in a slow queue to use it.

However I can see both sides of the OP's situation, and depending on which role I was in I would be sure I was in the right!

 

[Starmill]

And I've collected tickets where I need to use multiple reference numbers. So I enter card, code, get tickets and then repeat. No doubt someone behind is cursing me, but do I step aside and rejoin the queue to collect two tickets?

If there's only one machine then it's probably not good form to spend ages doing multiple ToDs. People have trains to catch! I personally prefer to do these where there is a large bank of machines, if there's only one you feel rushed and are thus more likely to make a mistake...

 

[bramling]

It's a bit like the 'baskets only' checkout in supermarkets. Little old ladies may just have a basket, but by the time they have sorted out a handful of coupons and fumbled around for their purse (and nowadays their carrier bag), the people behind would have been better off going to an ordinary checkout.

Makes a bit of a nonsense having a 'rapid ticket machine' if you have to wait in a slow queue to use it.

However I can see both sides of the OP's situation, and depending on which role I was in I would be sure I was in the right!

Could be six of one and half-a-dozen of the other. One is a little slow to move away from the machine, the other is a little impatient to use it. Without having been there it's hard to say who might be right or wrong.

However, with increasing population in this country this sort of conflict will happen more and more often. <Sigh>

 

[Bletchleyite]

If there's only one machine then it's probably not good form to spend ages doing multiple ToDs. People have trains to catch! I personally prefer to do these where there is a large bank of machines, if there's only one you feel rushed and are thus more likely to make a mistake...

Agreed, if intending on collecting a large number of TODs at a single-machine station it is polite to ensure you do so at a time when a train is not due.
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Me? 30 seconds or so, but that's because I do it often and generally know exactly what to expect. Someone who is less familiar with tickets - especially if they have multiple coupons per leg - could easily take a couple or minutes or more.

In which situation it is certainly polite to step aside. A manned ticket window would probably request them to do so, inviting them to return in front of the queue in the event of a problem.

 

[jon0844]

I always try to be considerate when going to collect tickets or to renew a season or whatever, but there's always a train soon so it's not that easy. Mind you, there are three machines and soon to be four at Hatfield.

The real solutions is of course sufficient ticket machines and open ticket windows, and developing smarter ticket options so I don't even need to go and collect - then have problems if they don't print properly and are marked as issued or voided due to the TVM crashing part way through printing (as recently happened to me). That was fun to sort!