Ticket issue

[leeching791]

Hi all, I am currently seeking advice from you regarding a ticket issue.
I was so silly that I buy the single-journey ticket on Trainline one stop near to Cardiff Central Station.
When I wanted to print out the ticket from the machine, a RPI stopped me and asked where I board the train and what ticket did I buy.
After he asked me some more questions, I confessed that I board at Taff's Well.
He then entered my information to his phone and issued me a travel incident report.

I was told by the rpi at the station that I would simply receive a letter in the post stating I need to pay the fare plus the administration cost. But I saw from other relevance post, they will need to reply the letter.


Thank you very much for your advice.

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

Could you post a copy of the TIR onto this thread please, so we know what you're dealing with? Cover up your name, address and any reference number.

As they have come across you before, you need to be sure to pay the right fare from now on, or things could get worse.

 

[leeching791]

Hi.

Could you post a copy of the TIR onto this thread please, so we know what you're dealing with? Cover up your name, address and any reference number.

As they have come across you before, you need to be sure to pay the right fare from now on, or things could get worse.

 

[najaB]

I was so silly that I buy the single-journey ticket on Trainline from Cardiff Queen Street to Cardiff Central since it is the cheapest fare.

Since you acknowledge that you deliberately short-fared, your focus should be on minimising the impact that this will have.

Several posters have managed to achieve settlements with TIL, though it may take several rounds of communication to achieve this. At this point you need to wait until you're contacted, at which point your objective is to make it clear that you:

• Now know precisely why what you did was wrong,
• Understand the impact of your actions on the railway and other passengers,
• Won't do it again, and
• Want to recompense them for the fare evaded and their costs

If you post a draft of your response here when you've composed it we can give you advice on how it can be made more effective.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@leeching791. Welcome to the forum. Will inspection of your online ticket purchasing history with Trainline show any other previous instances of apparent short faring?

 

[najaB]

Will inspection of your online ticket purchasing history with Trainline show any other previous instances of apparent short faring?

According to the OP, there have been at least two other instances.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

According to the OP, there have been at least two other instances.

Thanks for clarifying. Noted that there's not all that big a difference in the correct fare between Taffs Well and Cardiff Central (£4.40 Anytime Day Single), compared with Cardiff Queen Street and Cardiff Central (£2.70) so quite a bit of a risk for OP and for not much "savings".

So, if the OP is able to avoid being prosecuted, how much are they likely to have to stump up to make the problem go away? All the unpaid fares plus maybe a three figure sum towards TfW's investigation and admin costs?

 

[leeching791]

Since you acknowledge that you deliberately short-fared, your focus should be on minimising the impact that this will have.

Several posters have managed to achieve settlements with TIL, though it may take several rounds of communication to achieve this. At this point you need to wait until you're contacted, at which point your objective is to make it clear that you:

• Now know precisely why what you did was wrong,
• Understand the impact of your actions on the railway and other passengers,
• Won't do it again, and
• Want to recompense them for the fare evaded and their costs

If you post a draft of your response here when you've composed it we can give you advice on how it can be made more effective.

Thanks for the advice.

Thanks for clarifying. Noted that there's not all that big a difference in the correct fare between Taffs Well and Cardiff Central (£4.40 Anytime Day Single), compared with Cardiff Queen Street and Cardiff Central (£2.70) so quite a bit of a risk for OP and for not much "savings".

So, if the OP is able to avoid being prosecuted, how much are they likely to have to stump up to make the problem go away? All the unpaid fares plus maybe a three figure sum towards TfW's investigation and admin costs?

Do you mean there’s a risk for me to be prosecuted?

I would really like to settle out of court and I’m willing to pay all the outstanding fare and admin cost.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Do you mean there’s a risk for me to be prosecuted?

Yes. Depends on how hardball TfW choose to be.

I would really like to settle out of court and I’m willing to pay all the outstanding fare and admin cost.

I'm sure you would. Unfortunately, you don't get to decide. Whilst you can certainly ask, it's TfW who hold all the cards. By all means, come back on here when you hear again (by letter?) from TfW in the fullness of time.

 

[30907]

Thanks for the advice.

I would like to ask is it better for me not to mention the reason(cheaper fare) in the letter as this would lead to a high change for TIL to prosecute me?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Jul 2024 ==

Agree - they can work it out anyway

 

[najaB]

I would like to ask is it better for me not to mention the reason(cheaper fare) in the letter as this would lead to a high change for TIL to prosecute me?

On the other hand, you would need to have a convincing and believable alternative reason why you repeatedly bought a short fare.

 

[gray1404]

I'm just going to forewarn you, so you don't give up at the first knock back, you were stopped by a person employed by a notorious company called Transport Investigations Limited who Transport for Wales outsource this work to

Transport Investigations Limited are one of the harder companies to deal with in terms of getting a settlement. However it is not impossible. When they write to you initially and you write back to them, they will most likely respond with a letter saying that they see no reason why not to proceed with the prosecution.

You may then need to write back to them again pretty much saying the same thing two or three times before they offer an Out Of Court Settlement. They pretty much send the same standard responses out as we see the same letters multiple times on here from them and it feels like they haven't read your correspondence.

Be persistent with them. Try to switch your emotions off when dealing with them and make sure you come on here for advice. You will speed the process up if you post copies of any letters you receive from them on here without needing to be prompted and any draft you intend on replying with.

 

[leeching791]

Yes. Depends on how hardball TfW choose to be.


I'm sure you would. Unfortunately, you don't get to decide. Whilst you can certainly ask, it's TfW who hold all the cards. By all means, come back on here when you hear again (by letter?) from TfW in the fullness of time.

I’ll definitely come back on here when I receive the letter and seek for further advice.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I’ll definitely come back on here when I receive the letter and seek for further advice.

As others have mentioned, you may well be hearing from TfW's agents, Transport Investigations Limited, who tend not to be so straightforward to deal with.

 

[leeching791]

On the other hand, you would need to have a convincing and believable alternative reason why you repeatedly bought a short fare.

I have really regretted what I have done and can I reply the letter saying that I knew I made a terrible mistake and the error in judgement in purchasing the wrong ticket was entirely my fault?

I am so worried that providing the reason to save up money will lead to prosecution and I can’t think of other convincing and deliverable reasons to explain my previous short fare.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2024 ==

As others have mentioned, you may well be hearing from TfW's agents, Transport Investigations Limited, who tend not to be so straightforward to deal with.

I’ve seen multiple posts dealing with TIL required two to three times reply in letter and I’m prepared for that.

As the RPI claimed that I’ll receive a letter and then just pay the cost and fare. But they will definitely find out I got previous incident.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Jul 2024 ==

I'm just going to forewarn you, so you don't give up at the first knock back, you were stopped by a person employed by a notorious company called Transport Investigations Limited who Transport for Wales outsource this work to

Transport Investigations Limited are one of the harder companies to deal with in terms of getting a settlement. However it is not impossible. When they write to you initially and you write back to them, they will most likely respond with a letter saying that they see no reason why not to proceed with the prosecution.

You may then need to write back to them again pretty much saying the same thing two or three times before they offer an Out Of Court Settlement. They pretty much send the same standard responses out as we see the same letters multiple times on here from them and it feels like they haven't read your correspondence.

Be persistent with them. Try to switch your emotions off when dealing with them and make sure you come on here for advice. You will speed the process up if you post copies of any letters you receive from them on here without needing to be prompted and any draft you intend on replying with.

I’m prepared to write back to them multiple times and I really hope to settle out of court.

If TIL decided to prosecute me with short fare and I plead guilty, does it mean that I will have a criminal record for a long time?

 

[leeching791]

Welcome to the forum!

You're in a spot of bother here as you've been evading your fares on an industrial scale over a number of years. To be blunt, if a case like this doesn't result in prosecution then I have to wonder how serious a case needs to be to end up in court. That said, GWR are one of the more reasonable train companies to deal with and often do offer out of court settlements although it is likely to be expensive.

GWR will write you in the next few weeks asking for your comments before they decide how to proceed. When the letter arrives post a copy of it in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you.

To clarify a few other things:

You won't go to jail for this.

Purchasing tickets through SWR's app doesn't matter. GWR will be able to obtain details from SWR and they will research your ticket purchasing history.

Purchasing tickets that are not valid is not illegal but using them is. GWR only have sufficient evidence to prosecute you for the single occasion where you were caught. If they prosecute you then you would have to pay a fine based on your income, a surcharge, a contribution towards GWR's court costs and compensation for the fare avoided on the day you were caught. You would also have a criminal record. Although it will cost you, GWR doesn't get much out of this.

If you co-operate with GWR it is likely that they will offer you an out of court settlement. You will have to have to acknowledge that you have purchased invalid tickets over a sustained period of time and pay the total cost of the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase. In addition you will have to pay an admin fee, normally around £150, to reflect the cost of GWR's costs in investigating the matter. You would need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered. GWR gets more money out of an out of court settlement and you avoid a criminal conviction.

We cannot guarantee that you will be offered a settlement, but there is a decent chance as long as you co-operate with them.

I would like to know do I have to mention the reason for short fare. Thanks a lot! @Hadders

 

[najaB]

I would like to know do I have to mention the reason for short fare. Thanks a lot! @Hadders

If it helps you make up your mind it's almost certain that TfW have been working on the assumption that it was to save money.

 

[Haywain]

If it helps you make up your mind it's almost certain that TfW have been working on the assumption that it was to save money.

It's difficult to imagine that there is any other thinking behind such behaviour.

 

[Hadders]

There's not a lot you can do until you receive the letter from TIL.

When it comes post a copy on here along with you draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you. Do redact any personal details before uploading.