Need opinions please ASAP- not looking good

[pjj22]

hi all,

New to the forum. Stopped by GWR in London today after being with a friend and tried to bump through barriers behind them. Why i did this I don’t know, I should’ve just bought a ticket, but that’s the least of my concern.

I buy my tickets through SWR app whether it’s for an SWR service or not. I’ve been short faring from RDG-RDW and using child tickets for the last 7 months or so probably about 80 counts. I should be going from RDG to Winnersh triangle but the other one is cheaper. (Obviously stupid, I know). There have also been a few times where I have short fared out of reading and then short fared into London/other places over the last few months if that makes sense. This has been mainly on gwr but I have been on swr and emr with short fared tickets too, as I mentioned I purchase all tickets through the swr app.

When I showed the inspector my app history it obviously didn’t look great. He naturally issued me reported for prosecution card and I am awaiting a letter. he mentioned that I should be lucky gwr caught me and not swr and that the gwr prosecution team would be taking the case but as it’s an swr app would that be true?

I’ve never been prosecuted for anything to be honest, never been in any trouble with gwr either. No past convictions and definitely not looking to get a criminal record for obvious reasons although i know what I’ve been doing was very sneaky and foolish.

Seeing all sorts of things on here about possible jail time and criminal charges. Wondering what my fate is i guess. Is there a real likelihood of jail time? The short fares themselves are of small value but there are a lot of them over months time.

I can imagine gwr are tired of people pleading to settle out of court so wondering what to do to be honest.

Any advice?

 

[yorkie]

...I can imagine gwr are tired of people pleading to settle out of court so wondering what to do to be honest...

On the contrary; an out of court settlement for a high value amount would get the company more money than if the matter proceeds to court, as well as minimising GWR's costs.

I'll leave it to others to post a more detailed answer, but an out of court settlement is generally the best outcome for all parties. In your case it could get very expensive due to the nature and scale of the evasion (even though the individual values are low), but if you are keen to avoid a criminal record, then it is absolutely in everyone's interest to negotiate a settlement.

 

[Gloster]

There is not a lot that you can do except wait for the letter from GWR, which will take anything from a week or two to several months: I presume you gave them the correct name and address. There is virtually no chance of going to jail and you should be able to get an out of court settlement, but it will be expensive. Expect to pay the full Anytime Single fare for each and every journey you made incorrectly, that is two fares for a return trip, and with no allowance for what you have paid or any reductions you may be entitled to. They will also expect their investigation costs, which normally start at £150, but might be more in your case. If they make the offer, which is likely but not guaranteed, you will be expected to pay the sum in full within two weeks or so.

When you get the letter return and you will get advice from the experts in this site.

 

[pjj22]

There is not a lot that you can do except wait for the letter from GWR, which will take anything from a week or two to several months: I presume you gave them the correct name and address. There is virtually no chance of going to jail and you should be able to get an out of court settlement, but it will be expensive. Expect to pay the full Anytime Single fare for each and every journey you made incorrectly, that is two fares for a return trip, and with no allowance for what you have paid or any reductions you may be entitled to. They will also expect their investigation costs, which normally start at £150, but might be more in your case. If they make the offer, which is likely but not guaranteed, you will be expected to pay the sum in full within two weeks or so.

When you get the letter return and you will get advice from the experts in this site.

I’m concerned with the fact that it’s not just gwr trains that have been impacted by me. I was told it would just be gwr prosecution looking into this but because I’ve been on different trains would those companies not get involved too? The inspector also took pictures of a few different journeys of my swr app, but I assume they will find a way to look at everything.

I know it will be expensive but I’d rather pay that go to court.

 

[WesternLancer]

One thing is that you will not be going to prison for this. Just does not happen. And you would find no examples on this forum of that happening.

And yes. Gwr will act in respect of all evasion they detect from your purchase records whichever company you travelled with or buy tickets from.

Dig out gwr revenue protection policy pdf doc on their website and have a read of that.

 

[Gloster]

I’m concerned with the fact that it’s not just gwr trains that have been impacted by me. I was told it would just be gwr prosecution looking into this but because I’ve been on different trains would those companies not get involved too? The inspector also took pictures of a few different journeys of my swr app, but I assume they will find a way to look at everything.

I know it will be expensive but I’d rather pay that go to court.

I am not one of the experts, but I believe that the company that stopped you handles all the incidents for all the companies. Therefore you will only deal with GWR, but they will include the various offences that took place on the other companies.

Yes, they can find out an awful lot: expect them to find every incident. Remember, it is their decision whether they offer you an out of court settlement, although GWR is one of the companies that most often does so.

 

[pjj22]

I am not one of the experts, but I believe that the company that stopped you handles all the incidents for all the companies. Therefore you will only deal with GWR, but they will include the various offences that took place on the other companies.

Yes, they can find out an awful lot: expect them to find every incident. Remember, it is their decision whether they offer you an out of court settlement, although GWR is one of the companies that most often does so.

Every incident I’ve ever been in? Because i definitely bought a child ticket when i was 17 a couple times, is that how extensive we’re talking?

 

[AlterEgo]

Every incident I’ve ever been in? Because i definitely bought a child ticket when i was 17 a couple times, is that how extensive we’re talking?

If it was within the last 5-6 years and you purchased it using an online account, then yes, they can find it.

 

[Snow1964]

They can check the history, and if nearest station to your address isn't matching and looks like you have been short faring to a station with barriers that will be obvious too.

To be perfectly honest, if you are willing to pay about 80 full fares and £150+ to cover investigation costs they might just make an offer and then accept the money. They bank it, staff can move onto next person, don't have to go through faff of taking it to court. But that is GWR choice to make, and I don't know how they will choose to proceed. But on other hand they only need to catch you once to be able to take you to court.

 

[pjj22]

They can check the history, and if nearest station to your address isn't matching and looks like you have been short faring to a station with barriers that will be obvious too.

To be perfectly honest, if you are willing to pay about 80 full fares and £150+ to cover investigation costs they might just make an offer and then accept the money. They bank it, staff can move onto next person, don't have to go through faff of taking it to court. But that is GWR choice to make, and I don't know how they will choose to proceed. But on other hand they only need to catch you once to be able to take you to court.

I was buying tickets from RDG-RDW when I should’ve been going from RDG- Winnersh Triangle and back. I assume I could be waiting a long time for the letter, I assume it depends on the severity of the case on how long to get a letter.

 

[WesternLancer]

If it was within the last 5-6 years and you purchased it using an online account, then yes, they can find it.

But they probably don’t know tho op’s date of birth so may not raise it. Or they may ask the op for dob info I guess.

 

[Snow1964]

But they probably don’t know tho op’s date of birth so may not raise it. Or they may ask the op for dob info I guess.

If child tickets are involved will almost certainly need it. There are also different rules about taking anyone under 18 to court (without getting technical, have to use child court)

 

[pjj22]

They do have my dob as I gave it to them. I’m small and I look young hence why I’ve brought child tickets for a long time. (I know that’s not a valid reason). I’ve never been in trouble with GWR before but I have paid a small penalty fare to ircas before. I’m worried about the sheer amount of times which has stacked up

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jun 2024 ==

If child tickets are involved will almost certainly need it. There are also different rules about taking anyone under 18 to court (without getting technical, have to use child court)

Apologies I don’t know if I made it clear, I am over 16

 

[WesternLancer]

They do have my dob as I gave it to them. I’m small and I look young hence why I’ve brought child tickets for a long time. (I know that’s not a valid reason). I’ve never been in trouble with GWR before but I have paid a small penalty fare to ircas before. I’m worried about the sheer amount of times which has stacked up

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Jun 2024 ==


Apologies I don’t know if I made it clear, I am over 16

So it’s possible they might work out you bought child tickets after your 16 birthday.

But don’t worry too much about that. Just wait until they write to you and see what they say.

 

[furlong]

Note that RDW (Reading West) now has barriers at certain times of the day/week so if you are using e-tickets any pattern of missing scans in or out will be obvious.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jun 2024 ==

he mentioned that I should be lucky gwr caught me and not swr and that the gwr prosecution team would be taking the case

Generally, it is straightfoward to deal with GWR in a case like this and you'll just need to agree with them how much money you owe the railway in total to put right what you've been doing.

One caveat though, you MUST stop doing this immediately. Do not get caught a second time.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

You're in a spot of bother here as you've been evading your fares on an industrial scale over a number of years. To be blunt, if a case like this doesn't result in prosecution then I have to wonder how serious a case needs to be to end up in court. That said, GWR are one of the more reasonable train companies to deal with and often do offer out of court settlements although it is likely to be expensive.

GWR will write you in the next few weeks asking for your comments before they decide how to proceed. When the letter arrives post a copy of it in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you.

To clarify a few other things:

You won't go to jail for this.

Purchasing tickets through SWR's app doesn't matter. GWR will be able to obtain details from SWR and they will research your ticket purchasing history.

Purchasing tickets that are not valid is not illegal but using them is. GWR only have sufficient evidence to prosecute you for the single occasion where you were caught. If they prosecute you then you would have to pay a fine based on your income, a surcharge, a contribution towards GWR's court costs and compensation for the fare avoided on the day you were caught. You would also have a criminal record. Although it will cost you, GWR doesn't get much out of this.

If you co-operate with GWR it is likely that they will offer you an out of court settlement. You will have to have to acknowledge that you have purchased invalid tickets over a sustained period of time and pay the total cost of the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase. In addition you will have to pay an admin fee, normally around £150, to reflect the cost of GWR's costs in investigating the matter. You would need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered. GWR gets more money out of an out of court settlement and you avoid a criminal conviction.

We cannot guarantee that you will be offered a settlement, but there is a decent chance as long as you co-operate with them.

 

[pjj22]

Welcome to the forum!

You're in a spot of bother here as you've been evading your fares on an industrial scale over a number of years. To be blunt, if a case like this doesn't result in prosecution then I have to wonder how serious a case needs to be to end up in court. That said, GWR are one of the more reasonable train companies to deal with and often do offer out of court settlements although it is likely to be expensive.

GWR will write you in the next few weeks asking for your comments before they decide how to proceed. When the letter arrives post a copy of it in this thread along with your draft reply and forum members will proof read it for you.

To clarify a few other things:

You won't go to jail for this.

Purchasing tickets through SWR's app doesn't matter. GWR will be able to obtain details from SWR and they will research your ticket purchasing history.

Purchasing tickets that are not valid is not illegal but using them is. GWR only have sufficient evidence to prosecute you for the single occasion where you were caught. If they prosecute you then you would have to pay a fine based on your income, a surcharge, a contribution towards GWR's court costs and compensation for the fare avoided on the day you were caught. You would also have a criminal record. Although it will cost you, GWR doesn't get much out of this.

If you co-operate with GWR it is likely that they will offer you an out of court settlement. You will have to have to acknowledge that you have purchased invalid tickets over a sustained period of time and pay the total cost of the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase. In addition you will have to pay an admin fee, normally around £150, to reflect the cost of GWR's costs in investigating the matter. You would need to be in a position to pay the settlement in full within a few days of it being offered. GWR gets more money out of an out of court settlement and you avoid a criminal conviction.

We cannot guarantee that you will be offered a settlement, but there is a decent chance as long as you co-operate with them.

I see. Is there any other advice you can give in these early stages? I will keep this thread updated.

 

[notmyrealname]

What other advice do you think we should be giving - is there anything specific?

Once the letter comes, people will have a much better idea of what you're dealing with and can advise you what to do next.

 

[WesternLancer]

I see. Is there any other advice you can give in these early stages? I will keep this thread updated.

things you can do now are:

1) Trawl your on line purchasing going back 4 or 5 years and make a list of all the trips your ticket purchasing account(s) show for your own private use - where is was to and from and which ones you think might not be 100% legitimate.

2) Save up money to pay any settlement should it be offered, get that money in a place when you can make a prompt payment

 

[pjj22]

Hey guys just wanted to let everyone know that I received my letter today. They have offered me a settlement and the fee was a lot lower than I thought. I would like to take this time to thank everyone who chimed in on my thread. Thank you guys!

 

[Hadders]

Thanks for letting us know. Sounds like you got a favourable outcome.

 

[John R]

Hey guys just wanted to let everyone know that I received my letter today. They have offered me a settlement and the fee was a lot lower than I thought. I would like to take this time to thank everyone who chimed in on my thread. Thank you guys!

Thanks - useful to know. Out of interest, did the settlement just cover the one instance, or did they review recent purchasing history and make an assumption re other short faring occasions?