Ticket Inspectors Behaviour

[Bel]

Sorry I couldn't find a thread relating to this.
In a nutshell this is what happened - I used to travel with season tickets (since 2006) and have often caught the train and renewed it at my destination, but had stopped purchasing a season ticket this September - because I was not working enough days to warrant a season ticket.
I had assumed that we were still allowed to do this as no one had complained before - and on this occassion as number of people jumped on the train without either a ticket nor Excess Fare ticket. I was wrong to jump on too without a ticket - I acknowledge this was my error but the Excess Fares sent me to the ticket inspector. He also refused to let me buy a ticket - his manner was so aggressive and confrontational - and then because I refused to move he began making abusive and offensive remarks.
Why couldn't he have said started out by saying - sorry but the rules are you can't travel without a ticket, and I'm afraid you have to either pay the full fare or the Railway's specified amount - whichever was the more expensive?
But he didn't and why did he not confront the other people who'd got on without a ticket or Excess Fare and were purchasing tickets too?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I forgot to mention after all that agro he caused me - the Excess Fares was only going to charge me exactly for my ticket for a single journey. If I was trying to fare dodge - why am I asking for a return ticket and not a single?
They don't even stick to their rules - as well as not even applying the rules to everyone.

 

[Matt Taylor]

This is something you need to take up with customer services of the company involved, nobody here can give an answer as to why the TI behaved as he did.

 

[Geezertronic]

You should have purchased a ticket so your actions got you into this mess in the first place. Anyone can say "if I was a fare dodger, why am I asking for a return".

You wouldn't try and board a bus without buying a ticket first, or visit a cinema without buying a ticket first. Why should the railways be any different?

 

[Ferret]

Sorry I couldn't find a thread relating to this.
In a nutshell this is what happened - I used to travel with season tickets (since 2006) and have often caught the train and renewed it at my destination, but had stopped purchasing a season ticket this September - because I was not working enough days to warrant a season ticket.
I had assumed that we were still allowed to do this as no one had complained before - and on this occassion as number of people jumped on the train without either a ticket nor Excess Fare ticket. I was wrong to jump on too without a ticket - I acknowledge this was my error but the Excess Fares sent me to the ticket inspector. He also refused to let me buy a ticket - his manner was so aggressive and confrontational - and then because I refused to move he began making abusive and offensive remarks.
Why couldn't he have said started out by saying - sorry but the rules are you can't travel without a ticket, and I'm afraid you have to either pay the full fare or the Railway's specified amount - whichever was the more expensive?
But he didn't and why did he not confront the other people who'd got on without a ticket or Excess Fare and were purchasing tickets too?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I forgot to mention after all that agro he caused me - the Excess Fares was only going to charge me exactly for my ticket for a single journey. If I was trying to fare dodge - why am I asking for a return ticket and not a single?
They don't even stick to their rules - as well as not even applying the rules to everyone.

Is anybody else completely baffled by this posting? I am.....

 

[ralphchadkirk]

They don't even stick to their rules - as well as not even applying the rules to everyone.

Bit rich coming from someone who acknowledges that they broke the rules!

 

[ainsworth74]

Is anybody else completely baffled by this posting? I am.....

Nope, I would place myself in the completely baffled camp in regards to this posting.

 

[trentside]

I'll say I'm baffled as well.

If the OP has a genuine concern, they should contact the relevant TOC.

However...

The OP says the RPI(?) was aggressive and confrontational, but how did the OP behave? Were they aggressive and confrontational towards the inspector? There is always more than one side to the story.

At the end of the day, from what I can gather - they boarded the train without a valid ticket, apparently having made no attempt to purchase one, therefore they should expect to face the consequences.

 

[Ferret]

I'll say I'm baffled as well.

If the OP has a genuine concern, they should contact the relevant TOC.

However...

The OP says the RPI(?) was aggressive and confrontational, but how did the OP behave? Were they aggressive and confrontational towards the inspector? There is always more than one side to the story.

At the end of the day, from what I can gather - they boarded the train without a valid ticket, apparently having made no attempt to purchase one, therefore they should expect to face the consequences.

Yes, if you board a train without a valid ticket having had the opportunity to do so, then you are committing a byelaw offence.

To the OP - can I ask exactly what has happened? Were you interviewed under caution? Were you PF'd, or were you told that the facts would be reported to the TOC for further investigation?

 

[cuccir]

Bel: you don't say which station you used and what time you've travelled at? Being able to purchase tickets at the end of a journey is only a right if you've not had the ability to buy one before hand (closed ticket offices, faulty machines, unstaffed stations etc.) You should usually be able to buy an excess if you have a ticket but then decide to travel further, though there are some complications regarding this rule I think depending where in the country you are travelling?

As for the ticket inspector - if the behaviour is as you say it was, then I'd agree with the others on here you should write to the relevant TOC (train operating company) and complain. Obviously with none of us having seen the incident, there's little else we can say on the matter.

 

[yorkie]

I had assumed that we were still allowed to do this as no one had complained before

Depends. As we do not know where you are travelling from/to, and what time, we cannot have any idea on the answer to that.

If it's a Penalty Fare train and you boarded at a Penalty Fare station, then you certainly can't do that. If not, it should be OK.

- and on this occassion as number of people jumped on the train without either a ticket nor Excess Fare ticket.

How do you know they didn't have a ticket? (also not sure where excesses come into this? Very few journeys would require an excess)

I was wrong to jump on too without a ticket - I acknowledge this was my error

Sounds like you boarded at a compulsory ticket area where a PF scheme operates? If so, this can be costly!

but the Excess Fares sent me to the ticket inspector.

Is this an excess fares window at a station? They sent you to an RPI (revenue protection inspector) or did they send you to the guard of the train?

He also refused to let me buy a ticket - his manner was so aggressive and confrontational - and then because I refused to move he began making abusive and offensive remarks.

I don't understand this. You are saying that no-one would sell you a ticket to exit through barriers? That sounds a most bizarre situation. Or did he want to take a witness statement from you for prosecution instead of selling a ticket?

Why couldn't he have said started out by saying - sorry but the rules are you can't travel without a ticket, and I'm afraid you have to either pay the full fare or the Railway's specified amount - whichever was the more expensive?

I don't know. Some RPIs do lack customer service skills, but then so do some customers. I can't judge who is right in this, as I have very little information to go on.

But he didn't and why did he not confront the other people who'd got on without a ticket or Excess Fare and were purchasing tickets too?

Did these people board at the same station as you, did they travel on the same train, did they all approach him asking for the same ticket as you?

It sounds very odd to me.

I forgot to mention after all that agro he caused me - the Excess Fares was only going to charge me exactly for my ticket for a single journey. If I was trying to fare dodge - why am I asking for a return ticket and not a single?
They don't even stick to their rules - as well as not even applying the rules to everyone.

They were going to sell you a single but you asked for a return? Well, you should have asked for a return in the first place. I think if someone just asked for a ticket without specifying a return, then they're a bit daft. Once you said you wanted a return, you should then get a return. It isn't clear if you did or not; did you?

Until more detail is available about this journey and what actions were actually taken, no-one is going to be able to either help you or say whether you were treated fairly or not.

 

[GB]

I forgot to mention after all that agro he caused me...

How is it he caused the agro when it was you that didn't bother getting a valid ticket to travel?

 

[LE Greys]

You should have purchased a ticket so your actions got you into this mess in the first place. Anyone can say "if I was a fare dodger, why am I asking for a return".

You wouldn't try and board a bus without buying a ticket first, or visit a cinema without buying a ticket first. Why should the railways be any different?

Hate to be pedantic, but round here you always board the bus so that you can buy the ticket. Those strange city people up in London demand that you buy one before you get aboard.

However, you're absolutely right about boarding trains without paying. It can be a pain in the backside sometimes (running late, don't want to wait an hour because the train's already here), but just don't do it. It's not worth the hassle. The one excuse I'll accept is "last train of the day". Even if there is no ticket office or TVM, there should at least be a PTT machine so that you can prove where you got on.

 

[gareth taylor]

Sorry I couldn't find a thread relating to this.
In a nutshell this is what happened - I used to travel with season tickets (since 2006) and have often caught the train and renewed it at my destination, but had stopped purchasing a season ticket this September - because I was not working enough days to warrant a season ticket.
I had assumed that we were still allowed to do this as no one had complained before - and on this occassion as number of people jumped on the train without either a ticket nor Excess Fare ticket. I was wrong to jump on too without a ticket - I acknowledge this was my error but the Excess Fares sent me to the ticket inspector. He also refused to let me buy a ticket - his manner was so aggressive and confrontational - and then because I refused to move he began making abusive and offensive remarks.
Why couldn't he have said started out by saying - sorry but the rules are you can't travel without a ticket, and I'm afraid you have to either pay the full fare or the Railway's specified amount - whichever was the more expensive?
But he didn't and why did he not confront the other people who'd got on without a ticket or Excess Fare and were purchasing tickets too?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I forgot to mention after all that agro he caused me - the Excess Fares was only going to charge me exactly for my ticket for a single journey. If I was trying to fare dodge - why am I asking for a return ticket and not a single?
They don't even stick to their rules - as well as not even applying the rules to everyone.

Youve got yourself to blame for not getting a ticket in the first place. Youll know for next time.

 

[scotsman]

This sounds like a hastily posted rant

 

[185]

I think from a guards perspective, the amount of people that showed me a out of date season asking to renew it at their destination, who I would catch the following day trying to use the same unrenewed ticket, after a while prompted me to just say - you know what - I'm gonna stick to the rules on this, and charge standard fare. People like these spoilt it for the rest.

Many were certainly wise that guards could not issue PTE tickets or monthly or longer season tickets, and would use this as an excuse to get a few extra days free. The only correct & by the book procedure is to take advantage of the advance dated season tickets and buy one prior to the day of travel.

 

[thelem]

You should have purchased a ticket so your actions got you into this mess in the first place. Anyone can say "if I was a fare dodger, why am I asking for a return".

That doesn't excuse a ticket inspector for being rude or agressive. Nor should the OP have been rude or agressive (he doesn't comment on his own behaviour).

At the end of the day, from what I can gather - they boarded the train without a valid ticket, apparently having made no attempt to purchase one, therefore they should expect to face the consequences.

The OP says he thought he could purchase a ticket at his destination, and implies that he attempted to do so before he was asked for his ticket. He seems to have accepted the excess fare anyway.

My experience when this has happened to friends at Brighton station, is that if they go up to the box by the barriers and ask to buy a ticket then they will be sold one at the usual price, but if they attempt to get through the barriers with an invalid ticket then they will pay a higher price (penalty fare?).

The attitude of some people on here seems to be that travelling without a valid ticket should be a capital offence, even if you were fully intending to buy a ticket at your destination (maybe the train was about to leave and there was a queue at the ticket office).

 

[trentside]

The attitude of some people on here seems to be that travelling without a valid ticket should be a capital offence, even if you were fully intending to buy a ticket at your destination (maybe the train was about to leave and there was a queue at the ticket office).

From my understanding of the original post, the OP didn't make any attempt to purchase a ticket at their origin station. I'd presume if there was a queue at the ticket office, or problems with a TVM etc, they would have said so, both to the inspector and on here. To be honest, it was quite garbled, so it's open to interpretation, unless they choose to give us any further details.

To describe not purchasing a ticket as a "capital offence" would be a little over the top. If the opportunity exists to purchase a ticket, then the OP should have done so, unless (as you say) there were factors preventing them from doing this - for example, a long queue would cause them to miss their train. I believe this would be accepted as a valid excuse by the TOC.

 

[Geezertronic]

That doesn't excuse a ticket inspector for being rude or agressive. Nor should the OP have been rude or agressive (he doesn't comment on his own behaviour).

He wouldn't comment on his own behaviour because he was not travelling with a valid ticket. Peoples definition of rude and agressive when caught in the act tends to change. For all we know the Ticket Inspector was being firm with the OP because he was caught. I am surprised the OP didn't use the word jobsworth because that's what people doing their job seem to be called.

And you have to ask yourself why someone's first point of call has to be a Railway forum and not the TOC or the BTP if the Ticket Inspector was actually being rude and agressive

 

[Greenback]

The OP doesn't appear to have logged in since making that first post! You'd think they would be ken to come back and have a look at the thread!

Personally, I take it all with a large dose of salt until they care to post further details!

 

[dcmbarton]

Not specifically related to the above post, but does anyone else find that some ticket inspectors at stations have got rather aggressive over the past few years? I know they have a job to do, but I do find that some are very heavy handed.

Last week, I was travelling back from Euston with my mother who is in her late 60's and the ticket inspector was very abrupt in his manner because although we had a ticket each, we only had a single ticket which included both seat reservations. We were pulled over to one side so he could inspect all the tickets and railcards more fully, and it felt very threatening. I don't consider that either of us look like fare-dodgers!

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I collect and keep all tickets I use: I remember travelling from Aylesbury-Marylebone, wanting to keep my ticket at the gate, so I asked and they let me through the side gate, took my ticket off me, tore it clean in two, and gave it back to me. I looked at him in disbelief, and wandered off, not rude, but really, really annoying

 

[talltim]

Hate to be pedantic, but round here you always board the bus so that you can buy the ticket. Those strange city people up in London demand that you buy one before you get aboard.

That annoyed me last time I was in London, was going to get the bus from Marylebone to St Pancras but it was strike day and when the bus came it was already rammed so we couldn't get on. We ended up walking (which I enjoyed, I love walking through London) but if I hadn't been claiming the ticket price back from my company I would have been very annoyed. Wouldn't have happened on a bus that you pay the driver on.
As a matter of interest can you claim the money back in cases like this?

 

[yorkie]

And you have to ask yourself why someone's first point of call has to be a Railway forum and not the TOC or the BTP if the Ticket Inspector was actually being rude and agressive

You don't know who they have, or haven't contacted, and asking here for advise first is sensible.

The OP doesn't appear to have logged in since making that first post! You'd think they would be ken to come back and have a look at the thread!

How do you know they've not read it? This part of the forum doesn't require registration to view.

 

[Sadsmileyface]

That doesn't excuse a ticket inspector for being rude or agressive. Nor should the OP have been rude or agressive (he doesn't comment on his own behaviour).

It stops people trying it again.

The "Softly-softly, customer is always right, we're always wrong, have some free vouchers" mentality is what got the railways into this state in the first place. Personally, I think it's about time that TOC's starting showing backbone and teeth- the public don't respect them. Now, TOC's offer a glorified babysitting service. Before the credit crisis, most were an absolute walkover.

 

[mumrar]

the ticket inspector was very abrupt in his manner.........We were pulled over to one side so he could inspect all the tickets and railcards more fully, and it felt very threatening.

At somewhere such as Euston they have a massive amount of passengers to deal with. They will probably seem abrupt because they won't take time for the pleasantries of 'Hello, how are you?' etc. Nothing they have asked you for is unreasonable.

I don't consider that either of us look like fare-dodgers!

And that's where you whole post unravels. What does a fare-dodger look like? After 13 years of ticket checks I can tell you that I've not been able to pin it down to a specific appearance of individuals. One of the most important parts of the job of finding fare-dodgers is to not show prejudice or discriminate in any way as to who could be a problem, doubtless you'd be quite poor at this though.

 

[thelem]

It stops people trying it again.

The "Softly-softly, customer is always right, we're always wrong, have some free vouchers" mentality is what got the railways into this state in the first place.

It's just as likely to stop people travelling by rail, as it is to ensure people buy a ticket.

It's particularly off putting if you thought you did in fact have a valid ticket but when checked it turns out to be invalid:
* Maybe you lost it
* Maybe you didn't notice the route or TOC restrictions
* Maybe you're travelling on a railcard, but you left the railcard in your other trousers

In each of these cases the inspector can't tell if the passenger was deliberately avoiding paying the correct fare or if they made a genuine mistake. There is a system of proportionate penalties (full fares and penalty fares) to deal with these cases and that should be the end of it. It is not the job of the ticket inspector to harass and scare people into paying.

 

[Skimble19]

Hate to be pedantic, but round here you always board the bus so that you can buy the ticket. Those strange city people up in London demand that you buy one before you get aboard.

However, you're absolutely right about boarding trains without paying. It can be a pain in the backside sometimes (running late, don't want to wait an hour because the train's already here), but just don't do it. It's not worth the hassle. The one excuse I'll accept is "last train of the day". Even if there is no ticket office or TVM, there should at least be a PTT machine so that you can prove where you got on.

FCC are too busy removing PTT machines so that's out of the question, and these days the machines are often broken (or should that be broken into at some places) and the ticket offices usually shut after 2ish you don't have a choice sometimes.

 

[Flamingo]

To the OP; just because someone is not giving you the answer you want to hear does not mean they are being rude. Just because they had to tell you several times because you would not accept it first time did not mean they were being aggressive.

You didn't have a ticket. Dry your eyes, suck it up and pay your fare like everybody else.

 

[Greenback]

How do you know they've not read it? This part of the forum doesn't require registration to view.

I don;t know whether they have read the thread, but if they have, why haven't they provided more info or answered the questions that others have put in earlier posts?

Sorry, but when someone registers, makes a post about an incident and never comes back to answer questions or even make a comment, I will take what they say with a pinch of salt!

 

[185]

And that's where you whole post unravels. What does a fare-dodger look like? After 13 years of ticket checks I can tell you that I've not been able to pin it down to a specific appearance of individuals.

Naah. FareDodgers have a distinct smell.

FEAR