Ticket Gates

[MidnightFlyer]

Even though they get 1-3 million passengers a year, i'm suprised most of the NLL stations and non-terminal London stations are gated

And I think its Brinington and Bredbury, something about them and barriers, i'll find photos

 

[me123]

They stop a couple of metres short of the tunnels AFAIK. (I should really know, having been through twice today).
It always seems a little strange how dark it is because it's open.

Yeah, a few metres short. Then the signals are about a metre short of the tunnel mouth a think.

I always have a memory of going through to Edinburgh when I was about 8, and all I could remember of Haymarket was a really dark and dingy station. I rarely get off there, but when I did I was just so surprised at how bright and open it actually is at the Glasgow end!

 

[Lampshade]

And I think its Brinington and Bredbury, something about them and barriers, i'll find photos

Yep, Brinnington, Bredbury and Hazel Grove have the old style manual gates but they're not used at all now.

Also I think kwvr45 has it spot on.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Yep, Brinnington, Bredbury and Hazel Grove have the old style manual gates but they're not used at all now.

Also I think kwvr45 has it spot on.

Bearing in mind that Brinnington's only 30 or so years old, and Hazel Grove station is fairly new, so when where these used, and do they exist elsewhere?

 

[jon0844]

When London Overground took over, didn't they promise that all stations would be staffed, and presumably therefore gated?

I think one thing that prompted this was the murder on the NLL late at night at Kensal Green;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensal_Green

In January 2006, City lawyer Thomas ap Rhys Pryce was robbed and murdered on Bathurst Gardens as he walked home from Kensal Green tube station. Two men were convicted over the killing, one of whom lived just two streets away from the scene of murder. They had mugged an Asian man at Kensal Green station just 30 minutes before Mr. Ap Rhys Pryce was murdered. The killers were members of the notorious gang that called itself the "Kensal Green Tribe" (KG Tribe) (although only one of them lived in Kensal Green : Murder of Tom ap Rhys Pryce) who had reportedly committed over 150 robberies and assaults.[1] In the wake of the incident, Dawn Butler, the local Labour MP, launched a campaign to ensure that all tube stations are staffed until they are closed at night, gaining the support of Ken Livingstone, the then Mayor of London.[citation needed] TfL now play classical music (set off by a motion sensor) in the entrance to the station after dark, intended to deter criminals from loitering.

This is another reason I'd like to see more inner-suburban lines being taken over by London Overground.

 

[LE Greys]

When London Overground took over, didn't they promise that all stations would be staffed, and presumably therefore gated?

I think one thing that prompted this was the murder on the NLL late at night at Kensal Green;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensal_Green

This is another reason I'd like to see more inner-suburban lines being taken over by London Overground.

Some of my relatives used to live just down the road from there. I can remember looking forward to going there because I could see WCML electrics zooming past (I was six at the time). It's frightening now when you think about it.

Irrelevant, I know, but I agree that the station needs staffing.

 

[CarterUSM]

I think stamping the tickets would be a good idea, rather than just eating them up. They could be stamped with the station code (eg, Edinburgh to Maryhill tickets would be stamped with GLQ if you change at Queen Street) or, at the terminus station, stamp the word USED across them. That way, you can keep your tickets for expense purposes if need be.

Receipts are generally easy to obtain, are these not acceptable for expense claims? As someone else has posted, if the gates didn't increase revenue, i would doubt they would exist.

 

[me123]

Receipts are generally easy to obtain, are these not acceptable for expense claims? As someone else has posted, if the gates didn't increase revenue, i would doubt they would exist.

I would have thought so, but it seems that some companies need the actual tickets as well. Besides, I had a receipt from a TVM in Paisley recently, and it only read "PAISLEY GILMOUR STREET: £3.75". I can understand why people wouldn't accept that as a receipt for expenses purposes, as it does fail to tell you what ticket was sold. And IMO it's understandable that that would not be acceptable.

I know the ones from manned ticket offices are shop-style paper receipts and do have the journey details (and hence would definitely be acceptable), and I don't know about the ones guards/TIs issue.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

When London Overground took over, didn't they promise that all stations would be staffed, and presumably therefore gated?

This is another reason I'd like to see more inner-suburban lines being taken over by London Overground.

Yeah, they put kind of plastic portable boxes with staff and timetables etc in them at all GO-B line stations, some of wich hadn't been staffed for 20-30 years, and are open first train to last. Them and c2c are the only TOCs which have all stations they own staffed

 

[CarterUSM]

I would have thought so, but it seems that some companies need the actual tickets as well. Besides, I had a receipt from a TVM in Paisley recently, and it only read "PAISLEY GILMOUR STREET: £3.75". I can understand why people wouldn't accept that as a receipt for expenses purposes, as it does fail to tell you what ticket was sold. And IMO it's understandable that that would not be acceptable.

I know the ones from manned ticket offices are shop-style paper receipts and do have the journey details (and hence would definitely be acceptable), and I don't know about the ones guards/TIs issue.

I thought that would be the case. The avantix ones aren't much better, they only show the price and the legend “travel tickets “!

 

[jon0844]

Yeah, they put kind of plastic portable boxes with staff and timetables etc in them at all GO-B line stations, some of wich hadn't been staffed for 20-30 years, and are open first train to last. Them and c2c are the only TOCs which have all stations they own staffed

And if the DfT had any guts, they'd make it a requirement for future franchises. It would be expensive, but would almost certainly have other hidden benefits (increased security for station property and passengers being just one). It also creates jobs, which seems a good thing.

I think you'd also find more people using trains at night instead of taking taxis (or going earlier, or not going at all) if they knew stations were staffed.

That said, I might be wrong. I'd be interested to know if London Overground has ever done any sort of comparison over usage before and after taking over - or compared revenue income etc.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

And if the DfT had any guts, they'd make it a requirement for future franchises. It would be expensive, but would almost certainly have other hidden benefits (increased security for station property and passengers being just one). It also creates jobs, which seems a good thing.

I think you'd also find more people using trains at night instead of taking taxis (or going earlier, or not going at all) if they knew stations were staffed.

That said, I might be wrong. I'd be interested to know if London Overground has ever done any sort of comparison over usage before and after taking over - or compared revenue income etc.

Usage figures tend to rise, anyway, at places like Bethnal green (500,000 passengers lat year) and Cambridge Heath, staff would be welcome (booth were destaffed in 1990 - why?). it must be uncomfortable, especially at night if you are vulnerable, have lots of cash in your wallet or have an iphone etc. Railfuture want to staff all stations with over 80,000 people a year using them - thats a hell of a load now! I agree, it woyld be really good for jobs, and most buildings are still there, at London Fields, its just shutterted, as it is at banstead water orton and Acton bridge. Apparently poeple prefer staff to machines when buying tickets what a suprise

 

[jon0844]

Given the thread on how useless TVMs are a lot of the time, it's no surprise people prefer real people!

 

[button_boxer]

Residents of Sheffield who live on the "wrong side" of the station face a lengthy walk round to reach the station entrance, or an alternative route across another footbridge closer to the station, but which isn't in a "desirable" part of town. Map here (the alternative footbridge is shown by a dashed green line just to the south of Sheffield station). For that reason, local residents want the footbridge kept open so they have a shorter walk to the station, and don't have to run as much risk from the more nefarious members of the local population.

The other strong voice in this is wheelchair users/limited mobility. The "alternative" bridge to the south of Sheffield station is a relatively long and narrow enclosed bridge with steps at both ends. The station footbridge is open and well lit with step-free access throughout (you have to use two lifts, one from tram to bridge and another from bridge to concourse, but the point is that it is accessible). The alternative step-free route involves following the tram track all the way to Park Square roundabout, over the bridge to Ponds Forge, down the ramp and all the way back along the other side of Sheaf Street, including two pedestrian crossings and sending you a good three quarters of a mile out of your way.

 

[northwichcat]

That is just scaremongering. WSMR operate at fully barriered Marylebone and still allow ticket purchase onboard, as could GC at York.

An access ban would be down to gateline staff being obstructive, and wouldn't last five minutes...

I thought barriers were already in place at York (even if they are human barriers opposed to machines) and York isn't a terminus station like many in London - it's also more of an interchange station so putting the checks on each platform would be more of an inconvience.

 

[Greenback]

I agree with the general consensus that barriers aren't perfect but that they do have a role to play. I also agree that they should be staffed and in operation late at ngiht.

I feel safer on a platform that is protected by a staffed barrier. I'm sure that solo travellers feel the same, particularly if they are elderly or female. In my experience there is much less chance of being harrassed when platforms are barriered, rather than all sorts of people wandering about unchallenged.

 

[Lampshade]

I agree with the general consensus that barriers aren't perfect but that they do have a role to play. I also agree that they should be staffed and in operation late at ngiht.

I feel safer on a platform that is protected by a staffed barrier. I'm sure that solo travellers feel the same, particularly if they are elderly or female. In my experience there is much less chance of being harrassed when platforms are barriered, rather than all sorts of people wandering about unchallenged.

I have to agree here, at smaller stations late at night it feels much safer when there's a staff presence and barriers to keep troublemakers out.

 

[Donny Dave]

The other strong voice in this is wheelchair users/limited mobility. The "alternative" bridge to the south of Sheffield station is a relatively long and narrow enclosed bridge with steps at both ends. The station footbridge is open and well lit with step-free access throughout (you have to use two lifts, one from tram to bridge and another from bridge to concourse, but the point is that it is accessible). The alternative step-free route involves following the tram track all the way to Park Square roundabout, over the bridge to Ponds Forge, down the ramp and all the way back along the other side of Sheaf Street, including two pedestrian crossings and sending you a good three quarters of a mile out of your way.

Thanks for the clarification. I knew I had missed something

I thought barriers were already in place at York (even if they are human barriers opposed to machines) and York isn't a terminus station like many in London - it's also more of an interchange station so putting the checks on each platform would be more of an inconvience.

York and Doncaster have human barriers at random times now, although at times, they will form a human barrier at the stairs on a random platform, and check the tickets of people using said platform.

 

[142094]

I thought barriers were already in place at York (even if they are human barriers opposed to machines) and York isn't a terminus station like many in London - it's also more of an interchange station so putting the checks on each platform would be more of an inconvience.

Mostly happensa when the races are on at York, seems as if they catch out a good few people each time.