Ticket Collection on the train

[keirlawson]

Due to an inoperative ticket machine I boarded a train without a ticket today. Helpfully the machine was opposite where the guard alighted to dispatch so I was able to quickly ask if I could board.

Upon boarding the guard was able to lookup my booking and print it there and then. Does anyone know when this started as a service (Southern) and why it isn't officially advertised?

Very grateful to the guard and glad they were there to help.

As an aside I wonder why ticket machines still insist on having a card when it is irrelevant to the collection.

 

[Haywain]

Does anyone know when this started as a service (Southern) and why it isn't officially advertised?

It's become possible over the last year or two, depending on the ticket issuing system, but it isn't advertised because it's only a back-up and, if the TIS doesn't issue to Credit Card Sized Ticket stock, may not be able to issue all tickets unlike TVMs*.

*In theory.

As an aside I wonder why ticket machines still insist on having a card when it is irrelevant to the collection.

Because many bookings are still set to "same card" collection.

 

[island]

I would say it isn't officially advertised because too many people using it would make on-board staff's jobs rather difficult and cause potential delays on trips from ungated to gated stations if the on-board staff didn't come round. As well, it would create further opportunities to request refunds on tickets improperly.

 

[RPI]

GWR have had it since we went over to TTK Mobile Ticketing Issuing System (MTIS) In March 2020, its not advertised but at the same time its not kept secret either, technically tickets should be collected before travelling but is handy for unstaffed stations.

Also, if collecting on the train it will only be printed on paper roll tickets.

 

[Watershed]

There is also no absolute entitlement to pick up a ticket onboard, even if the ticket machine was out of order. Staff could, in theory, insist on you buying a new ticket.

 

[transportphoto]

I would say it isn't officially advertised because too many people using it would make on-board staff's jobs rather difficult and cause potential delays on trips from ungated to gated stations if the on-board staff didn't come round. As well, it would create further opportunities to request refunds on tickets improperly.

Just to echo this - Refunds.

If the railways advertise the ability to collect the ticket on the train, people will know this and take the chance. If the ticket inspection doesn’t take place (and subsequently the ticket not printed at all), the customer will hit refund. Their argument being that the ticket was never printed so how was it used?

 

[Wallsendmag]

There is also no absolute entitlement to pick up a ticket onboard, even if the ticket machine was out of order. Staff could, in theory, insist on you buying a new ticket.

This

 

[VC00]

I regularly collect on trains in the SE, never had a problem apart from an RPI wanting to see my purchase history as he thought I was refunding not collected tickets.

As an aside- what information is shown when collecting a ticket, I see they enter the collection reference and it shows some ticket information but not sure what else.

 

[kristiang85]

There is also no absolute entitlement to pick up a ticket onboard, even if the ticket machine was out of order. Staff could, in theory, insist on you buying a new ticket.

So if I'm understanding this right, if you have not purchased a ticket at all due to a TVM not working, you can buy on the train without problem, but if you have paid for a ticket but can't collect due to the machine not working, you will be liable to pay for a new ticket? Seems a bit unfair. Would the passenger be able to get a refund on the uncollected ticket in that case? (Although they might of lost out on eg an advance fare?).

Apologies if I read it wrong.

 

[Watershed]

So if I'm understanding this right, if you have not purchased a ticket at all due to a TVM not working, you can buy on the train without problem, but if you have paid for a ticket but can't collect due to the machine not working, you will be liable to pay for a new ticket? Seems a bit unfair.

Yes, it is a harsh position. I think it's likely to be applied in circumstances where the person selling or checking tickets can't offer ToD collection.

Would the passenger be able to get a refund on the uncollected ticket in that case? (Although they might of lost out on eg an advance fare?).

Apologies if I read it wrong.

Arguably they would be able to recover the cost of any new ticket they're required to buy, as failing to have working ticket machines at the station likely constitutes a breach of contract, if not an example of failing to provide the service with reasonable care and skill under the Consumer Rights Act.

 

[Snow1964]

There is also no absolute entitlement to pick up a ticket onboard, even if the ticket machine was out of order. Staff could, in theory, insist on you buying a new ticket.

Which is quicker, entering the code is issue the already bought ticket, and printing it.

Or entering start and end station, ticket type required, and taking the money, printing it, and potentially giving change.

 

[RPI]

So if I'm understanding this right, if you have not purchased a ticket at all due to a TVM not working, you can buy on the train without problem, but if you have paid for a ticket but can't collect due to the machine not working, you will be liable to pay for a new ticket? Seems a bit unfair. Would the passenger be able to get a refund on the uncollected ticket in that case? (Although they might of lost out on eg an advance fare?).

Apologies if I read it wrong.

I certainly wouldn't even consider selling someone a new ticket in such circumstances and would issue the TOD, I can't think of any colleagues who wouldn't do the same either and I expect we would certainly be quizzed by management if we didn't just issue the TOD in such circumstances should the customer complain.

I think the nail was hit on the head further up thread, its not advertised and certainly these tickets should be collected before travel, but there are times when it becomes appropriate to use it, particularly in the area where I work where there are over twenty stations with zero ticket issuing facilities - yes, when purchased the customer does have to select which station to collect but its about using common sense.

However, before the advent of E tickets we used to have real problems with people purchasing TOD for short journeys because they knew you couldn't issue them and they could get a refund, in those circumstances we certainly did make them buy a ticket 99% of the time, but that problem has gone away now with e tickets and having the ability to print on train.

Another thing I find in my experience these days is that the majority of TOD I do fulfill on board are people who genuinely thought they had bought an e ticket but had ticked the wrong box, quite often the look despair on their faces when you point it out helps to determine a genuine case.

 

[johncrossley]

Can you ask a guard to issue a TOD ticket for a future journey? I normally buy e-tickets but sometimes you have no choice but to use TOD. For example, trips across London. If you get the guard to issue the ticket, you don't have to worry about queues at the ticket machine or a machine malfunction.

 

[alistairlees]

Can you ask a guard to issue a TOD ticket for a future journey? I normally buy e-tickets but sometimes you have no choice but to use TOD. For example, trips across London. If you get the guard to issue the ticket, you don't have to worry about queues at the ticket machine or a machine malfunction.

Sure. Most guards I know would do this.

 

[Adam Williams]

Another thing I find in my experience these days is that the majority of TOD I do fulfill on board are people who genuinely thought they had bought an e ticket but had ticked the wrong box, quite often the look despair on their faces when you point it out helps to determine a genuine case.

Not helped of course by the number of journeys where the customer doesn't get a choice and is forced into ToD fulfillment....

 

[deecee16]

GWR have had it since we went over to TTK Mobile Ticketing Issuing System (MTIS) In March 2020, its not advertised but at the same time its not kept secret either, technically tickets should be collected before travelling but is handy for unstaffed stations.

Also, if collecting on the train it will only be printed on paper roll tickets.

What does TTK mean?

 

[RPI]

What does TTK mean?

Apologies, The Ticket Keeper, its the manufacturer and supplier of our current mobile ticket issuing system