Theoretical RPI scenario

[Norb]

The other day my wife and I decided to purchase some tickets using National Rail Travel Vouchers, so off we popped to Chorley station.
Now the car park for the station at the front (ticket office & Preston bound platform) is £2, but round the back (TVM and Manchester bound platform) there are a few free 1 hour spaces, so we parked up and headed in on that side.
Coincidentally, we entered the platform just as a Manchester bound train arrived, and proceeded through the underpass along with a lot of the inbound passengers.
There was an RPI at the exit from the Preston bound platform into the foyer/ticket office area, we were not stopped, but if we had been, we would have obviously had no valid tickets, and no real way of proving that we had not alighted the train that had just arrived.
What would have happened if we had been stopped, and what should we have done if that had happened?

 

[Merseysider]

I suppose either a passenger who had just alighted the train would be able to confirm you had not travelled; or you could offer to show the RPI your recently parked car (do you get a ticket stating what time you parked?); and if the RPI really wasn't convinced then CCTV from the station would back up your story should the issue go any further.

 

[A-driver]

The RPI wouldn't stop you if you are using a public right of way or had not entered an area requiring a ticket. I don't know the exact location but if you were going from the car park to the ticket office then it's unlikely you are entering a part of the station requiring tickets.

 

[Norb]

FYI car was parked just off friday street at the top of the image
route was ramp onto platform 2 then subway to platform 1 the past the RPI stood at the doors between platform 1 and the ticket office

 

[DaveNewcastle]

What would have happened if we had been stopped, and what should we have done if that had happened?

I expect that what would have happened is that you were asked a simple question, to which you answered with the truth and were allowed to proceed with a kindly greeting.

Remember, it is not for you to prove anything, but, where fare evasion does occur, it is for the railway Companies' investigating staff to gather evidence prove it. Where evasion has not occured then there will be no evidence of it.

 

[185]

Agree. It is a problem I am quite used to, with numerous varying station layouts. It often causes conflict when you ask a (perfectly innocent) passenger, where have you travelled from?

At the operator I work for, quickly accessing CCTV is invaluable. I'd say 95% of the time, those asked to wait are found to have stepped off the train doors and not pole vaulted the fence :P

 

[PermitToTravel]

The RPI wouldn't stop you if you are using a public right of way or had not entered an area requiring a ticket. I don't know the exact location but if you were going from the car park to the ticket office then it's unlikely you are entering a part of the station requiring tickets.

There are very very few National Rail stations with Compulsory Ticket Areas defined, where one is required to hold a ticket regardless of whether or not they are travelling. These need to be signed. An example is Birmingham Moor Street (hence someone wishing to spot here requiring a platform ticket, as someone could be prosecuted just for standing on the platforms without a ticket).

I very much doubt that there is any part of Chorley station that requires tickets

 

[najaB]

There are very very few National Rail stations with Compulsory Ticket Areas defined, where one is required to hold a ticket regardless of whether or not they are travelling.

By definition or by stealth, would the area beyond ticket barriers be a compulsory ticket area?

 

[bb21]

By definition or by stealth, would the area beyond ticket barriers be a compulsory ticket area?

No, it would not. A compulsory ticket area would need to be specifically approved.

Of course the pax need to use the barriers in the correct manner and any private properties remain so.

 

[tsr]

These need to be signed. An example is Birmingham Moor Street (hence someone wishing to spot here requiring a platform ticket, as someone could be prosecuted just for standing on the platforms without a ticket).

I'm not sure this is the case, though you could be right. I seem to remember there is some generic documentation regarding the provision of CTRs which states that those wishing to enter for a legal purpose, but not wishing to travel, should not be expected to have paid for tickets, and that special arrangements should apply. I might be mis-remembering this, and perhaps the arrangements would simply be the provision of platform tickets.

Note that I am not saying it is unreasonable for enthusiasts to be asked to hold platform tickets within CTRs, or at the very least sign in at the station reception/info desk (if there is one).

 

[PermitToTravel]

The permission of staff would also do - I thought that goes without saying.

 

[Mojo]

What are CTRs?

The Railway Byelaws have a specific exemption for Compulsory Ticket Areas (CTAs) in that you cannot be prosecuted for being in one without valid authority; the "punishment" being a Penalty fare. The TfL Railway Byelaws (which applies to LU and Overground stations) does however allow for one to be prosecuted.

 

[Stigy]

There are very very few National Rail stations with Compulsory Ticket Areas defined, where one is required to hold a ticket regardless of whether or not they are travelling. These need to be signed. An example is Birmingham Moor Street (hence someone wishing to spot here requiring a platform ticket, as someone could be prosecuted just for standing on the platforms without a ticket).

I very much doubt that there is any part of Chorley station that requires tickets

I think he was referring more to the fact that it's unlikely somebody would be the 'wrong' side if the barriers without a ticket unless having travelled....CTA or no CTA this can occur and is usually bottomed out rather quickly.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Has Chorley got barriers? It hasn't on Stations Made Easy

 

[AndrewR232]

Has Chorley got barriers? It hasn't on Stations Made Easy

It didn't when I was there a couple of months back.

 

[Norb]

No, there are no barriers at Chorley Station

 

[tsr]

What are CTRs?

Argh! No such (relevant) thing that I know of. Brain failure. I do of course mean CTAs. Sorry!

 

[Tibbs]

What are CTRs?

The Railway Byelaws have a specific exemption for Compulsory Ticket Areas (CTAs) in that you cannot be prosecuted for being in one without valid authority; the "punishment" being a Penalty fare. The TfL Railway Byelaws (which applies to LU and Overground stations) does however allow for one to be prosecuted.

Do you know anything in particular about Bushey? It's rather interesting, as there are no barriers, and you walk enter from 2 directions, and can walk straight through. It does say that it's not a Right of Way, and that it's a CTA beyond the red lines, however I can't see any red lines anywhere. I can see where there may have been some, but they're very faint.

 

[LexyBoy]

I have wondered about a similar scenario before: ask permission to see someone off, go to platforms and then return to barriers to meet a different person.

Or, perhaps more pertinently, how would you prove a fare evader had travelled and not been waiting/trainspotting as they claim (the latter being unlikely I admit).

Do you know anything in particular about Bushey? It's rather interesting, as there are no barriers, and you walk enter from 2 directions, and can walk straight through. It does say that it's not a Right of Way, and that it's a CTA beyond the red lines, however I can't see any red lines anywhere. I can see where there may have been some, but they're very faint.

There are red lines at the bottom of the stairs - certainly to the LM platforms and I assume to the LO platforms although I don't remember seeing them. The subway is not part of the CTA.

 

[34D]

The RPI wouldn't stop you if you are using a public right of way or had not entered an area requiring a ticket. I don't know the exact location but if you were going from the car park to the ticket office then it's unlikely you are entering a part of the station requiring tickets.

Are there many stations that have a right of way across them?

 

[najaB]

Are there many stations that have a right of way across them?

I guess not many that would also have RPI's - some stations in less busy areas might provide the only footbridge for a local community to cross the railway.

 

[Hellfire]

Similar thing happened to me at Bolton. I was walking past the station and popped onto the platform to avail myself of the gents. No barriers.

As I came out a train pulled in and I found myself walking out with the passengers past two RPIs. I explained the situation and was courteously waved through. I did worry for a moment though.

 

[Hadders]

A couple of weeks ago at Stevenage station I popped down onto the station to see some family members off. The barriers were open and unmanned.

Five minutes later when I got back up to the booking hall they were manned! Thankfully the person manning the barrier was fine with my explanation.

 

[theageofthetra]

Although it doesn't apply now as I'm staff but... If I arrived at Beckenham Junction late on a Fri/Sat night on Tramlink I would often walk across the station footbridge to avoid the rubbish congregating outside the nightclubs and bars on the road bridge. Would I have got in trouble if there was an RPI blockade? My girlfriend (who is not staff) occasionally uses this route for the same reason & didn't want her to risk a PFN. Cheers

 

[Urban Gateline]

Although it doesn't apply now as I'm staff but... If I arrived at Beckenham Junction late on a Fri/Sat night on Tramlink I would often walk across the station footbridge to avoid the rubbish congregating outside the nightclubs and bars on the road bridge. Would I have got in trouble if there was an RPI blockade? My girlfriend (who is not staff) occasionally uses this route for the same reason & didn't want her to risk a PFN. Cheers

I may be wrong, but as long as you had a valid ticket for Tramlink you should be ok as Beckenham Junction Railway station itself is not a compulsory ticket area, don't think any of Southeastern's stations are!

 

[jon0844]

Five minutes later when I got back up to the booking hall they were manned! Thankfully the person manning the barrier was fine with my explanation.

I guess the fact you knew they weren't manned five minutes before backed up your story.

 

[Hadders]

It was the last Bank Holiday Monday and I wanted to see off my brother and 4 year old nephew (who is train mad).

Stevenage is quite good as there are 'branch line trains' (Hertford Loop), 'smiley trains' (class 365's) and 'the express' (East coast).

They caught a Hertford loop service that was starting at Stevenage, there hadn't been any other arrivals for 10-15 minutes so my story stacked up (as well as telling the person manning the barrier that it was open a few minutes before)

 

[MikeWh]

I may be wrong, but as long as you had a valid ticket for Tramlink you should be ok as Beckenham Junction Railway station itself is not a compulsory ticket area, don't think any of Southeastern's stations are!

Beckenham Junction tramstop is adjacent to the NR station rather than inside it. If there was an RPI block there then they'd probably be manning both entrances, so you could ask permission before entering the station.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Beckenham Junction tramstop is adjacent to the NR station rather than inside it. If there was an RPI block there then they'd probably be manning both entrances, so you could ask permission before entering the station.

Ah yes you're right, I've only been there once and remember its quite a walk from the tram to train, a whole 2mins or so

 

[island]

Are there many stations that have a right of way across them?

Guildford comes to mind. Non-passengers are entitled to get a gate pass and cross the bridge, but may not use the tunnel or go down to the platforms.