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The US mid term elections 2022.

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jfollows

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Who are you going to vote for in that situation? Difficult choice, isn't it! But if you reverse the politics, that is the kind of choice faced by someone in the US who has strong right-wing views and also respects democracy and is appalled by Trump's election lies.

Maybe that makes it understandable why some people might be horrified at Republican election denials, but choose to vote Republican anyway.
No, your choice could well be to vote for a third candidate, to write in a name for someone else (state dependent), to spoil your ballot or to choose not to vote at all.
I don't think reversing the situation makes any difference to the logic. I know I couldn't vote for someone who subverted the law and the peaceful transition of power regardless of their party. I'd do something else. I couldn't vote Conservative in any way here with Boris Johnson as leader, although he's not as odious as Trump of course, for similar reasons.
I said that I didn't understand how anyone could vote for Trump, but clearly I'm saying that I couldn't do so and I know that others take different stances, so I don't disagree with most of what you said, but I continue to be appalled by the vast numbers of people who don't think like me, which is an arrogance of its own of course!
 
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kermit

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I was watching the Orange One make his expected speech in the early hours UK on Wednesday morning in which he formally announced his expected decision to stand for candidature in the 2024 election. Not a mention made by him of "The Storming of the Capitol".
Trump might feel he has to run for President come what may, as a strategy to maximise his chances of deflecting any prosecution / legal action he might face. The (false) accusation that he is subject to a witch hunt will be ramped up by his status as a candidate.
 

MikeWM

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As I've highlighted before, one of the major factors slowing down the counting is different states have different rules for counting and how outcomes are determined. When it comes to federal elections the rules should be the same nationwide because they're nationwide elections; states can still have their own rules regarding state only elections, including electing State Governors.

I agree entirely; there's a somewhat interesting question as to how far the federal government could, constitutionally, impose a federal standard on the conduct of elections that are run by the states [1], but they have previously imposed various conditions (eg. date of the election, that the elections have to be in single-member districts rather than a 'slate' as in elections for delegates to the electoral college for President, etc.) so it does seem possible they could also impose uniform rules as to how ballots and counting should work. I'm not aware that anyone at federal level is proposing that, however.

[1] the Constitution is rather unhelpful here, it says 'The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of choosing Senators.' which doesn't really make clear whether the state legislature or the federal legislature are primary in considering such laws.
 

ainsworth74

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I agree entirely; there's a somewhat interesting question as to how far the federal government could, constitutionally, impose a federal standard on the conduct of elections that are run by the states [1], but they have previously imposed various conditions (eg. date of the election, that the elections have to be in single-member districts rather than a 'slate' as in elections for delegates to the electoral college for President, etc.) so it does seem possible they could also impose uniform rules as to how ballots and counting should work. I'm not aware that anyone at federal level is proposing that, however.
Yes it is rather tricky and, for various reasons, the states can get very worked up if they think that the Federal Government is over-reaching. My thought was that perhaps a middle road would be less about prescribing how an election is conducted but more around standards. Which could be something as broad in scope as "Each state will ensure that, absent unforeseen outside circumstances, all available votes are tallied within 48 hours of the final polling place closing in that state". How the state sets up it's elections is then a matter for that state as long as it can hit the 48 hour target for counting the votes. If a state allows postal votes that are postmarked election day then obviously it might take a bit longer for them to declare (depending on how close the race is) but at least majority of votes would have been tallied! Of course how you enforce that against a delinquent state is another problem. There's no point setting a requirement if there's no come back if it isn't met...

Though really I'd suggest that as the Federal Government has quite a keen interest in Federal elections it should be a matter for them, in coordination with the states, as to how they're run. But that's going to be all sorts of controversial amongst certain quarters...
 

Gloster

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A grifter is one who indulges in small scale fiddles: Trump does things on a large scale. My feeling is that this run for president is driven by a mixture of taking an opportunity to make money, revenge on everybody to flatter his bruised ego and his delusion that he should be president. If he calms down about the second and third elements, I could see him running for as long as the donations come in and then making a dignified retreat, or at least as dignified as he can (totally not at all), and keeping the money. However, I think he is likely to continue on until it all falls apart and then start lashing out at everybody. The Democrats best move is to sit on the sidelines and only occasionally poke him with a sharp stick to set him off again: just hope they don’t do it too much and start an insurrection.
 

Busaholic

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A grifter is one who indulges in small scale fiddles: Trump does things on a large scale. My feeling is that this run for president is driven by a mixture of taking an opportunity to make money, revenge on everybody to flatter his bruised ego and his delusion that he should be president. If he calms down about the second and third elements, I could see him running for as long as the donations come in and then making a dignified retreat, or at least as dignified as he can (totally not at all), and keeping the money. However, I think he is likely to continue on until it all falls apart and then start lashing out at everybody. The Democrats best move is to sit on the sidelines and only occasionally poke him with a sharp stick to set him off again: just hope they don’t do it too much and start an insurrection.
For Trump to get onto the list of Presidential candidates he has first to either secure the Republican nomination or to stand as an independent candidate. I'm sure he'd much rather it was the former, but I don't doubt he'd stand 'solo' if he got rejected by the GOP's faithful. This one will run and run....
 

brad465

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GOP now officially control the house, having just reached 218. The highest they can get to is 224, with NBC currently projecting 221.
 

Busaholic

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GOP now officially control the house, having just reached 218. The highest they can get to is 224, with NBC currently projecting 221.
The irony was that a Californian seat took them over the line. There was torrential rain in much of California on 'election day' which, at the time, was reckoned to have cost the Democrats some thousands of votes: seems like that may have been true.
 

Acfb

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Lauren Boebert's lead in CO-3 is down to 557 votes. I guess she'll probably still squeak it although they've still got some 'cured' ballots and military ballots to count.
 

brad465

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Lauren Boebert's lead in CO-3 is down to 557 votes. I guess she'll probably still squeak it although they've still got some 'cured' ballots and military ballots to count.
The margin is so close I'm expecting a recount to happen here. I don't know how long it will take, other than the fact it has to be completed by Dec 13th.
 

ainsworth74

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The margin is so close I'm expecting a recount to happen here. I don't know how long it will take, other than the fact it has to be completed by Dec 13th.
I believe it's mandatory in Colorado if the margin is less than 0.5% (or it might be 1%) so unless there's a fairly dramatic shift I think I recount is a nailed on certainty!
 

Gloster

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I believe it's mandatory in Colorado if the margin is less than 0.5% (or it might be 1%) so unless there's a fairly dramatic shift I think I recount is a nailed on certainty!

Frisch, the Democratic candidate, has effectively conceded: with 99% of votes counted, he trails by just over 550 votes. A recount is, I think, now certain. It would be interesting if the recount decided that Frisch was the winner, not that that is likely. Boebert already appears to be displaying the lack of magnanimity in victory that one might have expected, although it is other Republicans that appear to be the target of her ire.
 

Cloud Strife

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Boebert already appears to be displaying the lack of magnanimity in victory that one might have expected, although it is other Republicans that appear to be the target of her ire.

She's probably toast at the next election and she knows it. She's done nothing of any note in the House, and her attention seeking won't go down well with Republicans trying to find a path to the Senate and Presidency in 2024.

Kevin McCarthy has actually a tough time of it right now, because he's got to deal with Boebert and Greene who are notorious troublemakers, but also Ilhan Omar who has really caused a lot of trouble for the Republicans. They will toe the line because they've got nowhere to go, but I'd expect them to get even worse than they've been already in terms of public statements.
 

DynamicSpirit

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Looks like the House results are settling down now. As far as I can make out there are just two house seats that haven't yet been called - Lauren Boebert's Colorado District 3, plus California district 13. If, as seems very likely, both of those do go to the Republicans, then the Republicans will have 222 seats in the House, the Democrats 213.
 

brad465

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Looks like the House results are settling down now. As far as I can make out there are just two house seats that haven't yet been called - Lauren Boebert's Colorado District 3, plus California district 13. If, as seems very likely, both of those do go to the Republicans, then the Republicans will have 222 seats in the House, the Democrats 213.
Which is basically a reverse of the last composition. I don't know what's happening with Ca.13 but Co.3 is facing a recount as it's easily within the 0.5% margin between 1st and 2nd for a mandatory one.
 

MikeWM

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Looks like the House results are settling down now. As far as I can make out there are just two house seats that haven't yet been called - Lauren Boebert's Colorado District 3, plus California district 13. If, as seems very likely, both of those do go to the Republicans, then the Republicans will have 222 seats in the House, the Democrats 213.

The 4 seats the Republicans flipped in Florida, and rather more interesting the 4 seats they flipped in New York, being the key to their taking control of the House. Why they did so well in New York is one of the stories of the election (though I'm not sure there's an obvious answer).
 

Busaholic

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Why they did so well in New York is one of the stories of the election (though I'm not sure there's an obvious answer).
Probably to do with the perception of the Democrats being 'soft' on crime peddled by the Republicans gaining some traction (some well-publicised violent incidents on the Subway covered ad nauseam by Fox not exactly helping, though how politicians can make a difference escapes me.) That plus Hispanics seeming more and likely to vote Red than previously.
 

MikeWM

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Probably to do with the perception of the Democrats being 'soft' on crime peddled by the Republicans gaining some traction (some well-publicised violent incidents on the Subway covered ad nauseam by Fox not exactly helping, though how politicians can make a difference escapes me.) That plus Hispanics seeming more and likely to vote Red than previously.

Yes, that'll be it I guess. Middle-aged and above voters may remember what Giuliani did to 'clean up' the city - which I'm sure it another topic for debate as to how successful he was and whether his tactics were correct, but certainly there is still a *perception* that he made it significantly safer.
 

nw1

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Yes, that'll be it I guess. Middle-aged and above voters may remember what Giuliani did to 'clean up' the city - which I'm sure it another topic for debate as to how successful he was and whether his tactics were correct, but certainly there is still a *perception* that he made it significantly safer.

Mind you are the flipped seats in NYC, or (I would guess more likely) upstate?
 

MikeWM

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Mind you are the flipped seats in NYC, or (I would guess more likely) upstate?

Looks like the two seats on Long Island closest to Queens, and two seats immediately north of the city. Much of upstate was already Republican. NYC itself is quite firmly Democrat.
 

nw1

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Looks like the two seats on Long Island closest to Queens, and two seats immediately north of the city. Much of upstate was already Republican. NYC itself is quite firmly Democrat.

So perhaps the "Esher of New York", or some such.

(An interesting difference between US and UK politics is - I think - that leafy suburbia in the US tends to vote Democrat AFAIK, while the same in the UK tends to vote Tory. Certainly in the UK we have no real equivalent of mostly affluent but mostly liberal Massachusetts).
 

MikeWM

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So perhaps the "Esher of New York", or some such.

(An interesting difference between US and UK politics is - I think - that leafy suburbia in the US tends to vote Democrat AFAIK, while the same in the UK tends to vote Tory. Certainly in the UK we have no real equivalent of mostly affluent but mostly liberal Massachusetts).

I think you're correct about that, in fact the Republicans didn't win a single seat in the six states that make up New England in this election.

We do appear to be seeing a gradual realignment in UK politics to match that which has taken place in the US over the past 40 years or so though - in very rough terms, you end up where the poor and the rich vote for the 'right' party and the middle-class vote for the 'left' party. (Even then there are exceptions - I don't imagine Liverpool, for example, going Tory in the near future). The relative strength of the Lib Dems in the UK make the picture a little more complex here however.
 

brad465

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I think you're correct about that, in fact the Republicans didn't win a single seat in the six states that make up New England in this election.

We do appear to be seeing a gradual realignment in UK politics to match that which has taken place in the US over the past 40 years or so though - in very rough terms, you end up where the poor and the rich vote for the 'right' party and the middle-class vote for the 'left' party. (Even then there are exceptions - I don't imagine Liverpool, for example, going Tory in the near future). The relative strength of the Lib Dems in the UK make the picture a little more complex here however.
I wonder if this realignment is to do with how the "middle class" seem to be the ones who pay the most in recent years while right parties have been in power: support for the poor has effectively been paid by the middle class while the rich are not properly touched, so the bottom and top feel the right/centre-right party works for them, but the middle class do not. Certainly the biggest complaint I've seen recently is how support schemes are paid for by "middle earners".
 

nw1

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I wonder if this realignment is to do with how the "middle class" seem to be the ones who pay the most in recent years while right parties have been in power: support for the poor has effectively been paid by the middle class while the rich are not properly touched, so the bottom and top feel the right/centre-right party works for them, but the middle class do not. Certainly the biggest complaint I've seen recently is how support schemes are paid for by "middle earners".

I'm not so sure that the right actually help the poor more than the left or centre though.

Benefit cuts, for example, don't exactly help the poor, nor do such things as making it difficult to find an NHS dentist.
 

brad465

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I'm not so sure that the right actually help the poor more than the left or centre though.

Benefit cuts, for example, don't exactly help the poor, nor do such things as making it difficult to find an NHS dentist.
Oh they definitely don't, but what matters is perception.
 

Gloster

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The GOP has set up the Republican Party Advisory Council to review why it did so poorly in the recent elections. However, eight of the ten members are election deniers, which suggests that they may come to a completely mad conclusion and totally bizarre suggestions as to how to do better next time. The Democrats must be beside themselves with glee, although what the people think...well, who cares?
 

nlogax

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The GOP has set up the Republican Party Advisory Council to review why it did so poorly in the recent elections.

Their poor results require that level of internal analysis? Really?

With that level of participation from election deniers it’ll completely miss the point. Every single thing the GOP does is a slow motion car crash.
 

Yew

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We do appear to be seeing a gradual realignment in UK politics to match that which has taken place in the US over the past 40 years or so though
I do wonder if a sufficiently motivated politician could drum up public support for a domestic policy based entirely on events happening in the US.
 

67thave

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The 4 seats the Republicans flipped in Florida, and rather more interesting the 4 seats they flipped in New York, being the key to their taking control of the House. Why they did so well in New York is one of the stories of the election (though I'm not sure there's an obvious answer).
As someone who lives in the bluest of the flipped seats, it comes down to a few Long Island-centric reasons:
1) Regionalism. Hochul is the first governor in a century to be from Upstate New York (Buffalo, to be precise) and Zeldin, who was the Republican candidate for governor, is from as far downstate as one can go (Suffolk County). This made Hochul come off as somewhat distant to many voters in New York City and on Long Island. Since Zeldin is from Long Island, he did much better there than any Republican has in a long time, which helped to drag Republican House candidates on Long Island (as well as in Rockland) across the line. There's more on this in points #6 and #7.

2) One of Hochul's most notable initiatives has been for the state to subsidize the construction of a new stadium for the Buffalo Bills. Unsurprisingly, this has been a sticking point for New York state residents who do not live upstate on both the right and the left.

3) Until the last couple of weeks before the election, Hochul essentially ran a single-issue campaign centered around abortion. It turned out that abortion was not as big of an issue in New York as crime, particularly crime on the New York City Subway, which leads me to point #4...

4) The crime spike on the New York City Subway has been driven by random attacks. This makes it more difficult to predict where incidents may occur. I was almost attacked in the subway at Forest Hills/71st Avenue in September, and Forest Hills is traditionally one of the safest areas of the city served by the subway.

5) Minority turnout was down significantly. This hurt Democratic candidates on Long Island in particular, where there is very little in the way of a Democratic white base (except for some parts of the North Shore in Nassau, as well as the Hamptons). This was less so the case in races in the Hudson Valley (and likely the reason why NY-18 in that region did not flip to the Republicans), where there is a significant white Democratic base thanks to the region being the destination of choice for wealthy New York City residents who want to buy a country home or move out to suburbia. However, NY-17, which contains Rockland County, still flipped because of...

6) How the Jewish population voted. New York is one of the few states where Jews are a large enough share of the electorate to be a significant voting bloc. Non-Orthodox Jews are among the most Democratic ethnic groups in the United States and typically vote 80-20 Democrat. Orthodox Jews are the inverse. They tend to vote 80-20 Republican, but are geographically clustered in a few counties (primarily Rockland, Orange, Brooklyn, and to a lesser extent Queens and Nassau) and were angry at Hochul attempting to interfere in religious education (some Orthodox Jewish precincts in Brooklyn gave Zeldin over 90% of the vote). A good example of this geographic clustering is the difference between how Westchester and Nassau voted. Both are counties which were traditionally Republican until the 1990s and then swung to the Democrats. However, Westchester has continued to move to the left whereas Nassau stagnated at a 55% Democrat-45% Republican split in presidential elections for the last 20 years and has never moved that far leftwards in local elections. Jews make up a similar size of the electorate in both counties but are much more evenly split between non-Orthodox and Orthodox in Nassau, whereas Westchester's Jewish population is almost exclusively non-Orthodox. But this does not fully explain its electoral tilt, leading to point #7, which is also the final point...

7) Long-term voting trends in downstate New York are heavily shaped by population trends and people's perspectives of different suburbs. Whereas Long Island and the Hudson Valley were on much more equal footing in terms of perception back in the 1950s, the Hudson Valley has become perceived as the "better place to live" (partially thanks to being less isolated, as there are very few ways off of Long Island which do not involve travelling through New York City) and has a much larger share of domestic migration driven by high-paying corporate jobs, whereas most people who move to Long Island likely already have some sort of familial connection. Long Island is not a destination of choice as it was in the 1950s, and has become seen as the place that construction workers, police officers, and other working- and middle-class individuals live in despite the presence of some of the wealthiest suburbs in the United States (think of the Hudson Valley, especially Westchester, as Surrey and Long Island as a hybrid of Kent/Essex and you essentially get the idea). I often get the proverbial cold shoulder at grad school (Oh, you're from Long Island? I bet you lick the NYPD's boots for breakfast, lunch, and dinner!) in social situations whereas classmates of mine from Westchester and New Jersey are welcomed more openly.
 
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