The UK was better in the old days because...

[Busaholic]

God bless the master and his relations and keep us in our proper stations.

Impossible to imagine a buffoon who's been told all his life how clever and interesting he is in comparison with the other inbreds at Eton to climb the greasy pole to the top, eh?

 

[bspahh]

Really yes !

I sort of see what you're saying though

I've found myself becoming less interested in stand up comedy and panel shows because they fit my world view less than they did when I was in my twenties. Radio 4 has lots of stand-up comedy nowadays and I just don't find it funny most of the time.

I just get the feeling that there's not enough of it. I've been watching sitcoms from the 70's and 80's recently including Just Good Friends, which is excellent (I haven't seen it for around thirty years) and Bless this House with the wonderful Sid James, and i'd take them over the soap operas and reality t.v. of today.

I think this is a symptom of getting old. A lot of jokes work by tricking you to think one thing, and then switching to something else. If you need the misdirection to be explained to you, then the joke falls flat.

David Mitchell compared comedy and cooking. He said that if you go to a restaurant and eat a nice meal one day, you will still be happy to go back and eat the same thing in a week. Music hall comedians used to be able to use the same 20 minutes of material, for decades. If a comedian tells a scripted joke on TV, then its hard for them to use it again, as its just not funny a second time.

That is the appeal of programs like Taskmaster, and I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue. With ISIHAC episodes from the early 70s, some jokes work fine, but singing the lyrics from one song to the tune of another doesn't work if you don't recognise either the lyrics or the tune. It just becomes a really bad song.

For radio comedy, a lot is available at BBC Sounds https://www.acast.com and https://fourble.co.uk/

If there are old sitcoms, that you like, you're probably better to get copies on DVD (www.musicmagpie.co.uk is good) rather than relying on them still being broadcast or streamed. If you go for the big box sets, then you might also get some DVD extras with commentaries and documentaries. You can then watch the best sitcoms over a period of decades, which will be better than the ones written in the last few months.

 

[D6968]

If you get the chance , visit the Beamish living museum in Stanley co Durham. It has a chippy and they cook them like that. Absolutely gorgeous.

They also do the same in the Black Country Museum, seriously yummers!

 

[yorksrob]

I think this is a symptom of getting old. A lot of jokes work by tricking you to think one thing, and then switching to something else. If you need the misdirection to be explained to you, then the joke falls flat.

David Mitchell compared comedy and cooking. He said that if you go to a restaurant and eat a nice meal one day, you will still be happy to go back and eat the same thing in a week. Music hall comedians used to be able to use the same 20 minutes of material, for decades. If a comedian tells a scripted joke on TV, then its hard for them to use it again, as its just not funny a second time.

That is the appeal of programs like Taskmaster, and I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue. With ISIHAC episodes from the early 70s, some jokes work fine, but singing the lyrics from one song to the tune of another doesn't work if you don't recognise either the lyrics or the tune. It just becomes a really bad song.

For radio comedy, a lot is available at BBC Sounds https://www.acast.com and https://fourble.co.uk/

If there are old sitcoms, that you like, you're probably better to get copies on DVD (www.musicmagpie.co.uk is good) rather than relying on them still being broadcast or streamed. If you go for the big box sets, then you might also get some DVD extras with commentaries and documentaries. You can then watch the best sitcoms over a period of decades, which will be better than the ones written in the last few months

Yes, I love 'Sorry I Haven't a Clue' and the fact that I had no idea about the song "We'll gather lilacs in the spring time" prior to hearing the show has never affected my enjoyment of it.

I guess ones appreciation of comedy depends on one's inclusion in the in-joke.

I've always found Ben Elton funny, although my parents never have, so maybe it's a generational thing.

 

[D6968]

The freedom for children. I was shocked a couple of years ago to discover that my nephew (aged 18 at the time) still didn't have a key to the front door and his mum didn't like him going out unless it was to a friend's house who she knew about.

I had the key to the door when i was about 11, in my last year at primary school i used to go home at lunchtimes (empty house) and also used to go out and play on the streets, even riding my little tricycle up and down the street from the age of 5!

I had my own house keys from the age of 10, In my last year at Primary School I used to come home and do my own dinner (microwave some soup or some beans on toast)
The summer I left primary school my mum would encourage me to go out on my bike for 20 mins or so whilst she got ready for work and the school gates only about 150 yards from where we lived so I was never late. At 11 years old you have bags of energy!
I do remember one morning seeing a girl in my class and ‘buzzing’ her on my bike and she came out with the classic ‘I’m telling on you’ Our teacher did have a word but realised she couldn’t do anything when she found out it happened at 8:30 in the morning before and off school property. All this was not that long ago in 1995.

 

[The Ham]

I think this is a symptom of getting old. A lot of jokes work by tricking you to think one thing, and then switching to something else. If you need the misdirection to be explained to you, then the joke falls flat.

David Mitchell compared comedy and cooking. He said that if you go to a restaurant and eat a nice meal one day, you will still be happy to go back and eat the same thing in a week. Music hall comedians used to be able to use the same 20 minutes of material, for decades. If a comedian tells a scripted joke on TV, then its hard for them to use it again, as its just not funny a second time.

That is the appeal of programs like Taskmaster, and I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue. With ISIHAC episodes from the early 70s, some jokes work fine, but singing the lyrics from one song to the tune of another doesn't work if you don't recognise either the lyrics or the tune. It just becomes a really bad song.

For radio comedy, a lot is available at BBC Sounds https://www.acast.com and https://fourble.co.uk/

If there are old sitcoms, that you like, you're probably better to get copies on DVD (www.musicmagpie.co.uk is good) rather than relying on them still being broadcast or streamed. If you go for the big box sets, then you might also get some DVD extras with commentaries and documentaries. You can then watch the best sitcoms over a period of decades, which will be better than the ones written in the last few months.

There's also an element of we only remember the good things from the past and forget the bad.

Whilst it's unlikely that there'll be much being repeated from now (unlike say Faulty Towers) it's also likely that there's much from the time of those programs which are getting repeated now which also also aren't getting repeated.

The other thing to bear in mind is that with fewer channels there's much more which a wider number of the population watched and so wish to watch again. Whilst now fewer watch that one program, and so it's less likely to be repeated.

Take the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy, there's many things which many would find funny. However jokes like humans thinking digital watches are a pretty neat idea, may well get laughs but not for the same reason as it did when it was first written (when they were a pretty neat idea), and there's likely to be a whole load of others which just wouldn't have the same impact.

Of course try and update it to suit a more modern audience and lots of those who came to it pre 2000 (most likely those in their 30's if not 40's and older) would get jolly upset (probably upset enough to lay down in their dressing gown in front of any bulldozer which may be used).

That's kind of the problem our culture changes and so do what we find funny, so what we found funny in our youth we still find funny. However as times have changed our children won't have the same cultural understanding and so won't be in on the joke, in the same way things they find funny we won't find funny as we may not be in on the joke.

Comic writers could have had a field day with someone in the early 90's getting a meeting place/time wrong and missing each other, now we'd just think "why aren't they phoning/texting/WhatsApping to sort it out?". Likewise someone not knowing where they were going, is more likely to cause confusion (as to why aren't they using their sat-nav) rather than getting a laugh.

 

[Springs Branch]

My feeling is that between say 13 and 17 we were allowed far greater freedom than young people are today.

In part better public transport freed us from "dad's taxi"

I would agree. Even younger than that - aged around 10, or even marginally below 10, I was allowed to roam around the local countryside on my own, walking up to 7 miles. It was great, but they'd never allow a 10-year old child to do that these days.

Not sure they'd allow an 11-year old to travel from the Southern Region to Stafford on an XC train on their own either (and with a change at Reading on the return journey), something I did back in the day.

+1 to these. After getting my first full-size bike for my 10th birthday, I roamed all over the locality (on my own or with mates) each school holiday and on summer evenings.

In my mid-teens I travelled progressively further by local buses or (when pocket-money funds allowed) trains, often in search of good train-spotting locations around Greater Manchester and Liverpool.

My parents never seemed too bothered where I was going, so long as I was "home by tea-time", and they certainly weren't being negligent by the standards of the time. I did encounter one or two potentially dicey situations whilst wandering on my own around places like Longsight or inner-city Liverpool, but youthful instincts got me through OK.

I now have two great-nephews who are around the age that I started my explorations, and can't imagine either has anything like the independence and initiative, nor would get parental permission, to travel around by PT like I did. They both routinely travel much further in terms of miles than I ever did, but it's always in Mum's Taxi.

Ironically, it would be much easier and safer to carry out my erstwhile expeditions today, with Google Maps, on-line timetables, next bus apps etc., and a mobile phone in case of emergency. "Back in the day", although operators like Selnec and Merseyside PTE did produce network route maps, they weren't always easy to get hold of or carry around. Knowing what buses went where could be an educated guess, but I survived OK and was always home by tea-time.

 

[The Ham]

+1 to these. After getting my first full-size bike for my 10th birthday, I roamed all over the locality (on my own or with mates) each school holiday and on summer evenings.

In my mid-teens I travelled progressively further by local buses or (when pocket-money funds allowed) trains, often in search of good train-spotting locations around Greater Manchester and Liverpool.

My parents never seemed too bothered where I was going, so long as I was "home by tea-time", and they certainly weren't being negligent by the standards of the time. I did encounter one or two potentially dicey situations whilst wandering on my own around places like Longsight or inner-city Liverpool, but youthful instincts got me through OK.

I now have two great-nephews who are around the age that I started my explorations, and can't imagine either has anything like the independence and initiative, nor would get parental permission, to travel around by PT like I did. They both routinely travel much further in terms of miles than I ever did, but it's always in Mum's Taxi.

Ironically, it would be much easier and safer to carry out my erstwhile expeditions today, with Google Maps, on-line timetables, next bus apps etc., and a mobile phone in case of emergency. "Back in the day", although operators like Selnec and Merseyside PTE did produce network route maps, they weren't always easy to get hold of or carry around. Knowing what buses went where could be an educated guess, but I survived OK and was always home by tea-time.

I suspect that part of the issue these days is the volume of traffic. Between 1993 and 2018 (25 years) traffic miles grew by 28%, however as you are talking about grand nephews I suspect an older date for your childhood may be more appropriate, if we go back to 1983 (35 years) miles traveled by car had very nearly doubled between then and 2018 whilst another 5 years back to 1978 (40 years, so an average of 20 years per generation) means that miles traveled has grown by a factor of 2.2.

If we go much further back it takes us a few more years but since 1969 (49 years) and miles traveled had tripled.

Whilst that may not sound a lot of extra cars in reality it can be quite significant. The other thing to note is that car ownership is probably the bigger issue, as that means that it's less easy to cycle along roads as you'll be much more likely to need to pass a parked car, which narrows road space and on some more minor roads means that there's often limited potential for cats to overtake cyclists (even if the cyclists want to pull over to let them pass, there'll be limited scope to do so).

This has made cycling in roads a much more hostile place to do so.

The other thing is that whilst kids are much more likely to own a bike few will be taught how to cycle with traffic and so wouldn't have the road sense even if they had the freedom (which is something I've started to teach taught mine from the time they've been able to cycle any sort of distance, i.e. more than 500m without wobbling, so typically from aged 5 - not that they are taken on roads where they are likely to encounter no more than about 2 cars and even then the cars would naturally be going very slowly, however it's a useful training ground as they are taught about road position and who gives way to who, etc.).

 

[dgl]

Things were better in the old days because everyone knew their place and didn't dare to rise above it

I was always facinated that My Gran married my Grandad, as she was from a middle class family from Banstead whos father had worked in a bank in London, whereas my Grandad was a farmers boy from Langton Maltravas in Dorset (whom she had met whilst holidaying at their farm).
I wouldn't have changed my Grandad for the world but always wonder what would have happened if my gran had stayed at the L&G and married within her class.

 

[nw1]

Really yes !

I sort of see what you're saying though

I've found myself becoming less interested in stand up comedy and panel shows because they fit my world view less than they did when I was in my twenties. Radio 4 has lots of stand-up comedy nowadays and I just don't find it funny most of the time.

Know what you mean there, most (IMO) really funny comedy I first encountered in my teens and twenties. Things like Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, Blackadder, The Young Ones, Spitting Image (the original 80s and early 90s incarnation), Ben Elton live etc. Some of these came out well before my teens but I *encountered* them all in my teens or early 20s.

 

[seagull]

On some more minor roads means that there's often limited potential for cats to overtake cyclists (even if the cyclists want to pull over to let them pass, there'll be limited scope to do so).

This has made cycling in roads a much more hostile place to do so.

I honestly can't remember the last time I let a cat overtake me whilst cycling...

What I have found though is that the large volumes of traffic on roads these days means that for a driver to overtake and give the proper width allowance, means they might be sat behind the cyclist for a very long time, due to oncoming traffic making an overtake impossible. Not a situation conducive to enjoyable cycling, and worse when some overtake leaving only inches to spare.
So I rarely venture out these days on the bike, sadly as it was something I always enjoyed years ago.

 

[Mally66]

Things were better in the old days because everyone knew their place and didn't dare to rise above it

I Totally agree, a severe lack of respect in this current world

 

[THC]

I Totally agree, a severe lack of respect in this current world

I sense the poster to whom you replied was being ironic, whereas I'm not sure you are. This idea of a "severe lack of respect" is in itself quite dangerous and suggestive of an authoritarian mindset.

A severe lack of respect for whom, may I ask? Are our political leaders deserving of respect? One might argue that they govern with no respect for the rest of us. What then about our "elders and betters"? Surely respect must be earned rather than assumed.

THC

 

[Typhoon]

The freedom for children. I was shocked a couple of years ago to discover that my nephew (aged 18 at the time) still didn't have a key to the front door and his mum didn't like him going out unless it was to a friend's house who she knew about.

I had the key to the door when i was about 11, in my last year at primary school i used to go home at lunchtimes (empty house) and also used to go out and play on the streets, even riding my little tricycle up and down the street from the age of 5!

I find that amazing. When I was in primary school I would be encouraged to 'play out' (outside, sometimes in our garden but there wasn't much room, or in the road, mostly in friends gardens - one had a disused shelter, some disused allotments or a bank where slides had been worn through generations of children's backsides). Mothers would come out and call us in when the time came. We didn't say where we were going if it was local. If it was the nearest park (largely wooded, with steep banks, no swings or similar - about 15 minutes away) or further afield we would need to give some idea - normally vague, 'up the street' meaning to town which included visits to disused jetties where we shouted out and waved to sailors on passing ships, trying to work out their nationality (flag) or line (funnel) or the shopping parade (which might include trespassing into the outer parts of a nearby quarry). From time to time I would go further with a friend or friends, certainly a 30 minute bus journey was OK. When I was around 14, we were going even further, I can remember buying a day bus ticket at Bexleyheath Garage with some friends and going to Heathrow to watch planes taking off and landing; on reflection I can't see the point as we didn't spend long there. I wasn't exceptional, if you had asked my parents they would probably say I spent too much time in my bedroom, that was why I was pale.

No wonder there is an obesity crisis if that is now typical; a walk into town and back would have been an hours worth for me.

 

[DelW]

My parents never seemed too bothered where I was going, so long as I was "home by tea-time", and they certainly weren't being negligent by the standards of the time. I did encounter one or two potentially dicey situations whilst wandering on my own around places like Longsight or inner-city Liverpool, but youthful instincts got me through OK.

I now have two great-nephews who are around the age that I started my explorations, and can't imagine either has anything like the independence and initiative, nor would get parental permission, to travel around by PT like I did. They both routinely travel much further in terms of miles than I ever did, but it's always in Mum's Taxi.

This reminded me of an occasion when I was probably around 10 years old (nearly 60 years ago). We lived in Sutton Coldfield, north-east of Birmingham, and I went out for a day without my parents but with an organised group, for a walk along the River Severn, probably from Bewdley or Kidderminster. At some point in the day, I think after finishing the walk, I became separated from the rest of the group. I can remember searching for them for quite a time, maybe half an hour or so, but without success.
Not only were there no mobile phones, of course, but I couldn't even ring home from a call box, as my parents didn't have a landline installed until years later. Fortunately I'd been provided with some cash for emergencies, so I simply found and caught a Midland Red bus back to Birmingham, changed to another bus home, and got home early in the evening. I presume I told my parents what had happened, but they would have had no way of contacting the group organisers either. I do remember that quite late that evening one of the organisers, who must have been very worried by then, came round to our house and so was finally told that I'd made it home quite safely.
It seems quite surprising by modern standards, but it was indeed a rather different world. From age 11 onwards, I was routinely catching two buses each way across Birmingham to go to and from school.

 

[DarloRich]

generally life wasn't better in them olden days. it was pretty crap.

 

[eoff]

Some quick thoughts:

• Proper sit-down food on the ECML
• Airports that did not fleece you to have the temerity to drop-off or pick-up their paying customer within a mile of the airport.
• Royal Mail multiple deliveries per day and affordable letter post
• Local government that provided good non-essential services
• Telecommunications where the company you have to use could not get away with adding a faceplate to your phone socket and not supporting it.
• Trading standards that was useful
• Express bus services for commuters
• A time when exam results and degree levels meant something
• [Edit] Companies that always had a phone number you could call and which would get answered in a reasonable time

 

[nlogax]

generally life wasn't better in them olden days. it was pretty crap.

Thank you, a relief to know it's not just me thinking that.

 

[DarloRich]

I Totally agree, a severe lack of respect in this current world

No there isn't. There is a complete lack of respect for the expectation that certain people should be respected simply for their perceived status. White middle aged men being one of them. Many such men were brought up with the expectation that they would be "kings" - it is hard for them to understand that the world they saw/absorbed from their fathers ( that of the man being "king" in his own home/family and not being open to challenge) has changed. Their expectations have turned out to be illusory and that is hard for some people to process.

Respect is earned. It isn't assumed or inherited. A badge or status does not by existence alone generate respect.

 

[CarltonA]

In the sixties there was a lot of pollution from coal fires, factory chimneys, power stations and vehicles including public transport. However there was also a lot of recycling which was abandoned in later decades such as:

Shopping bags - most people took a purpose made bag to the shops or were given a paper one.
Milk was delivered by an electric vehicle in reusable bottles which were rinsed after use and returned on the EV for refilling.
Many liquids came in glass bottles which could be returned for a refund, even Domestos had a penny refund if returned.
Nowhere near as much packaging was put in the bin. Meat and fish were wrapped in paper, no polystyrene trays or clingfilm etc.

 

[birchesgreen]

Life feels like it was better in the past as you were younger, especially during your childhood. Having no cares and worries and being able to spend much of your time playing beats having a mortgage and work thats for sure.

 

[yorksrob]

Life feels like it was better in the past as you were younger, especially during your childhood. Having no cares and worries and being able to spend much of your time playing beats having a mortgage and work thats for sure.

This is so very true !

 

[Typhoon]

In the sixties there was a lot of pollution from coal fires, factory chimneys, power stations and vehicles including public transport. However there was also a lot of recycling which was abandoned in later decades such as:

Shopping bags - most people took a purpose made bag to the shops or were given a paper one.
Milk was delivered by an electric vehicle in reusable bottles which were rinsed after use and returned on the EV for refilling.
Many liquids came in glass bottles which could be returned for a refund, even Domestos had a penny refund if returned.
Nowhere near as much packaging was put in the bin. Meat and fish were wrapped in paper, no polystyrene trays or clingfilm etc.

Pollution - sixties? I'm tempted to write 'luxury', fifties there were times when you couldn't see more than a few yards ahead of you and crossing roads was a nightmare. However, I am going off topic as it is why the UK was better in the olden days.

Adding to your list -
Finding glass bottles and taking them to a shop for the penny back to enhance pocket money.
Being able to buy the exact weight of a grocery that you wanted, not having to buy a certain packaged amount that then gets wasted.
Being fascinated by the shop assistant packaging a weighed amount of grocery using a single sheet of blue paper in such a way that the contents never leaked out.
Grandparents who lived new door or in the next road.

 

[dgl]

Talking about buying exact amounts, my Gran stopped using the butcher because he would always go slightly over what he asked for asking her "it's slightly over is that alright".

Of course supermarkets are starting to go back to allowing people to use their own packaging, Morrisons even has pick your own eggs now so you can reuse the egg boxes.

 

[seagull]

There is a complete lack of respect for the expectation that certain people should be respected simply for their perceived status. White middle aged men being one of them.

Respect is earned. It isn't assumed or inherited. A badge or status does not by existence alone generate respect.

Wow. Racism and sexism in the same sentence. Charming.

And with regards to respect: what about the respect for, let's say, a coach full of passengers, when you might get the urge to play music at loud volume on a smartphone? Do those passengers have to earn the respect not to inflict that on them? No, of course not.
And that sort of respect, for other people, regardless of race or gender, is what does sadly seem to be in short supply these days.

 

[High Dyke]

No. However there is one form of litter that has reduced over the years thanks to little black plastic bags, for which I am grateful.

It seems to grow on trees these days...

Trains that really looked and sounded something, even in corporate blue... Telly worth watching. Proper shops in town centres, not out-of-town retail parks or lookalike High Streets.

 

[DarloRich]

And with regards to respect: what about the respect for, let's say, a coach full of passengers, when you might get the urge to play music at loud volume on a smartphone? Do those passengers have to earn the respect not to inflict that on them? No, of course not.

that is good manners. That isn't the same thing as respect in my mind. What many mean when they talk about "respect" is knowing your place and not challenging your "betters". Sod that for a game of soldiers.

 

[AM9]

Wow. Racism and sexism in the same sentence. Charming.

And with regards to respect: what about the respect for, let's say, a coach full of passengers, when you might get the urge to play music at loud volume on a smartphone? Do those passengers have to earn the respect not to inflict that on them? No, of course not.
And that sort of respect, for other people, regardless of race or gender, is what does sadly seem to be in short supply these days.

I think you've misunderstood the message in @DarloRich's post. The issue is that the type of person that expected the respect, (and in some cases is rued by that type's modern counterpart) was the stereotypical white middle class demographic. For those not around in the '50s and '60s, it must be hard to imagine the level of entitlement that men (and some but fewer) women presumed that they were a species above the impoverished, the poorly educated, the disabled and most of all those who didn't fit in with their self-image of an honest white anglo-saxon. General society was riven with expressions and behaviour that was aimed at reinforcing that attitude. The legacy of that ignorant schism is still kicking around in groups like football croawds, cricket teams and management, various (mainly right-wing) political extremists that use the ingnorance of their followers as a weapon etc..
If you get the opportunity, look at the oft repeated David Frost show clip where John Clees, Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett satirise the three factions of British society. It might seem funny, but it's underlying message had a few serious messages that the average white middle-aged male didn't see was anything to do with them.
We might get a lot of messaging about wrongs in modern society, but the residue of the '60s bigot is usually among the most frequent complainant when it is broadcast, claiming that it wasn't like that.

 

[contrex]

generally life wasn't better in them olden days. it was pretty crap.

I'm inclined to agree. Some things I don't miss from the 'good old days' (and I am aged 69) in no particular order: race discrimination in employment and housing (Bristol buses, 'no blacks, Irish or pets' etc), putting ropes around criminals' necks and dropping them through a trap, police corruption, the lack of treatments available for diseases we can cure nowadays, deference to our 'betters', the fact that if I were born in 1932 instead of 1952, I might well have died of asthma by now, crude primitive electronics, smog, the amazing depth and extent of racism and sexism (still not gone though). Hola Camp (look it up). I could go on.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

And (I think) at Blist's Hill Coalbrookdale museum. They were certainly very good.

Two separate sites, aren't they, some three miles apart, albeit obviously both part of the Ironbridge Gorge Museum set up.