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The UK was better in the old days because...

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nw1

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First of all, a disclaimer. This is not supposed to be a political or analytical thread, it's supposed to be light-hearted and perhaps based on 'feelings' rather than logic.

To get the small bit of politics out of the way. 'Brexit Britain' is often described by its adherents as a return to the good old days of Britain, but it could be argued that modern-day Britain of the late 2010s and 2020s is less interesting and less characterful than that which existed in the late 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s... and for those that remember it, the 60s and early 70s.

Public transport comments are OK but this is not supposed to be a trains thread. So the odd comment on trains is fine but there must be non-PT comments too. ;)

So I'll start. Will get the PT things that I miss out of the way first: CIGs, VEPs, HAPs, EPBs, Cross Country services changing locos from diesel to electric and v.v at New Street, HSTs, 86s and 87s on front-line IC services, peak additionals, Saturday summer specials, and interesting diagramming. Leyland Nationals, Bristol VRs and sensible bus numbering systems where the same regional bus company would use unique route numbers for all routes.

On to the non-PT things. Please note that the emphasis is supposed to be on 'feelings' and 'nostalgia' rather than the rights and wrongs of any of these things. Anyway I miss:

Unpretentious country pubs in almost every small village in the back of beyond. IMX these existed as recently as the late 90s.

Sodium lights on our streets. I used to love the warm, comforting orange glow of these and the atmosphere at twilight of them switching on, at first bright red, and then yellow.

Ornate wrought-iron lamp stands on suburban streets. Built perhaps in the early 20th century, the actual light fitting was changed several times in their lifetime, but the stands remained. Since 2010 these have sadly become an endangered species.

I know this is probably not the 'right' thing to say - but signs of gritty industry. Much of this has gone recently and makes the modern day UK much more anodyne than previously. I know large power stations like Fawley and Didcot are polluting, but their presence on the landscape lent the area a certain type of gritty industrial 'character' and to be honest, as politically incorrect as it sounds, I miss them. Maybe the ideal solution would have been to 'green them up' but keep the industrial architecture in place.

Travelling from one part of the UK to another (also applies to some other countries such as France) along A roads, rather than whizzing along motorways. The old A34 route from Oxford to Birmingham had great character and took you through the heart of countryside, making you feel you were 'there'. Whizzing along the M40 just doesn't have the same character - just like on the train, the old 47-and-coaches ICs on the parallel XC rail route always had the most character for me.

Anyway, there are mine. As I said, this is not supposed to be a political or logical thread - it's one to abandon politics or logic and just let your raw feelings flow.
 
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PeterC

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My feeling is that between say 13 and 17 we were allowed far greater freedom than young people are today.

In part better public transport freed us from "dad's taxi"
 

Acey

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The quantity and variety of Air Displays ,almost any weekend from May to late September you could visit a different show ,from small scale events like West Malling to the hustle and bustle of Mildenhall ,not forgetting the R.A.F at Home days! on the same note the sheer variety on aircraft on show compared to the somewhat bland procession of various Nations F16/F18 etc !
 

brad465

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I wasn't around in the old days, but I hear a lot about how home cooking and sustainable materials for shopping were very common before the 80s, unlike now with loads of single use plastic, fast food and ready meals, etc.

Apologies if this next bit goes against the OP's spirits, but I put that down to excessive globalisation and major corporations needing to profit more, including through making and throwing away packaging materials instead of recycling/reusing, and working longer hours, coupled with advertising mania, all to drive consumerism, including fast food.
 

Gloster

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Less television and no internet, etc., so you actually did things, rather than just sat there gawping at screens.

No all-encompassing belief that everybody must be fascinated by sport, i.e. watching and paying for it, rather than partaking in it.
 

XAM2175

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I know this is probably not the 'right' thing to say - but signs of gritty industry. Much of this has gone recently and makes the modern day UK much more anodyne than previously. I know large power stations like Fawley and Didcot are polluting, but their presence on the landscape lent the area a certain type of gritty industrial 'character' and to be honest, as politically incorrect as it sounds, I miss them. Maybe the ideal solution would have been to 'green them up' but keep the industrial architecture in place.
I have to agree with you here; the pollution (of all sorts) is obviously hugely undesirable but there's something fantastically interesting about heavy industry like that. Even simply in the landmark value - I felt a certain sadness in seeing the flue stacks come down at Inverkip and Longannet simply because they were familiar. At least the gas holders at Provan have been listed, thankfully.

And on a separate topic: was there always so much bloody litter about the place?
 

Gloster

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And on a separate topic: was there always so much bloody litter about the place?
No, at least to my recollection, but it was mostly organic and so would rot away before too long. Nowadays so much of it is plastic and its derivatives. But yes, there was still litter.
 
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GusB

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Things were better in the old days because everyone knew their place and didn't dare to rise above it :)
 

Typhoon

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(Not so much in my current road but) knowing everyone by name. And, as a result, more people willing to do favours for neighbours.

No pressure to upgrade your tech every year.

Adverts made sense.

Thought of another: No stupid phrases like 'Food on the go'. It doesn't need a special name - we understand 'sandwich', 'roll', 'pie'. By and large, it is better to sit down to eat and why do we need to spend a couple of quid on half a dozen grapes, a few redcurrants and a slice or two of apple, and something else we can't quite recognise in a plastic pot. Better to buy whole fruit so the firmness and freshness can be tested.

Less television and no internet, etc., so you actually did things and talked to one another, rather than just sat there gawping at screens.
I hope you don't mind the addition.
And on a separate topic: was there always so much bloody litter about the place?
No. However there is one form of litter that has reduced over the years thanks to little black plastic bags, for which I am grateful.
 
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Spaceflower

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The 1980's and 90's, as much as I love them for I was young then, were not good.

The 00's heralded the blitz of information....I have no nostalgia towards that period at all. Will my feelings on that change, who knows....
 

Spamcan81

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The quantity and variety of Air Displays ,almost any weekend from May to late September you could visit a different show ,from small scale events like West Malling to the hustle and bustle of Mildenhall ,not forgetting the R.A.F at Home days! on the same note the sheer variety on aircraft on show compared to the somewhat bland procession of various Nations F16/F18 etc !
Well said.
 

nw1

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My feeling is that between say 13 and 17 we were allowed far greater freedom than young people are today.

In part better public transport freed us from "dad's taxi"

I would agree. Even younger than that - aged around 10, or even marginally below 10, I was allowed to roam around the local countryside on my own, walking up to 7 miles. It was great, but they'd never allow a 10-year old child to do that these days.

Not sure they'd allow an 11-year old to travel from the Southern Region to Stafford on an XC train on their own either (and with a change at Reading on the return journey), something I did back in the day.
 
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yorksrob

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Slam door trains with compartments (obviously).

Baked beans that still contained enough salt and sugar to taste of something. Cafes doing decent fry-ups everywhere.

Less reliance on foreign supply chains.

More comedy on telly (fewer dreary soap operas and reality t.v.)

A Wimpy bar on every high Street.

Free university education. That's a biggie for me.

Better music (more indie rock, less rap, less irritating generic pop etc).

The hole in the ozone layer turned out to be a lot easier to fix than climate change is looking like being.

The confounding of communism, religious fanaticism and other forms of totalitarianism by Western philosophy (unfortunately they seem to be in the ascendancy at the moment).
 
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nw1

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I wasn't around in the old days, but I hear a lot about how home cooking and sustainable materials for shopping were very common before the 80s, unlike now with loads of single use plastic, fast food and ready meals, etc.

Apologies if this next bit goes against the OP's spirits, but I put that down to excessive globalisation and major corporations needing to profit more, including through making and throwing away packaging materials instead of recycling/reusing, and working longer hours, coupled with advertising mania, all to drive consumerism, including fast food.

No worries at all, I don't mind the odd political comment and I think that's a good point. I think some other European countries, particularly round the Mediterranean, have succumbed much less to this than the mainland UK - and a lot of other countries have a more 'real' and 'genuine' feel than the modern mainland UK. Oddly, Northern Ireland has that feel too, based on my one and only trip there in 2018 (to a smaller town in a more rural area).

And to clarify, I'm not from the 'grumpy old man' strand of conservatism if anyone's wondering - generally I'm left-of-centre and liberal-leaning. For example I loved the 80s for a multitude of reasons, but always feel slightly guilty about doing so because of a certain politician beginning with T. Or perhaps, given I'm always complaining about the past few years, I am a grumpy old man - just a different sort of one ;)
 

birchesgreen

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The freedom for children. I was shocked a couple of years ago to discover that my nephew (aged 18 at the time) still didn't have a key to the front door and his mum didn't like him going out unless it was to a friend's house who she knew about.

I had the key to the door when i was about 11, in my last year at primary school i used to go home at lunchtimes (empty house) and also used to go out and play on the streets, even riding my little tricycle up and down the street from the age of 5!
 

nw1

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The freedom for children. I was shocked a couple of years ago to discover that my nephew (aged 18 at the time) still didn't have a key to the front door and his mum didn't like him going out unless it was to a friend's house who she knew about.

18-year olds are adults though, presumably no-one would have any right to tell him where and where not to go (as long as he wasn't breaking the law or behaving antisocially) once he reached that age!

Going back to my experiences aged 9 (this was the early 80s) - and I was a 'young' 9, probably looked even younger - I remember chatting with a park warden in a local beauty spot. I had no worries about him, and he didn't lecture me about being out on my own 'Where are your parents? What are you doing on your own' etc etc etc.

Mind you the following year I was out on a walk with a similarly-aged friend and got stopped and grilled by the police (on a rural road) about being out on our own. Luckily we were allowed on our way and weren't forcibly transported back home.
 
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birchesgreen

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18-year olds are adults though, presumably no-one would have any right to tell him where and where not to go (as long as he wasn't breaking the law) once he reached that age!
Well he could go out, but if he got home and no one was in then he was stuck! He does have the key now (well he's 23 now!)
 

nw1

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Well said.

On the same topic (aircraft), how about the disappearance of 747s and MD-11s.

I remember 10 years ago both types seemed commonplace, and were a bit different to most aircraft being 4- and 3- engines respectively. Now (let's call 'now' 2019 to prevent recent events clouding the discussion) both types seem to have more or less disappeared.
 

baz962

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Or even better in beef dripping. There are still some left but they are disappearing.
If you get the chance , visit the Beamish living museum in Stanley co Durham. It has a chippy and they cook them like that. Absolutely gorgeous.
 

seagull

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The UK was definitely much better in the old days as we didn't have that irritating-as-heck "see it, say it, sorted" announcement everywhere on the railways.
 

backontrack

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I miss the old internet. Hugely.

Little webforums with a sense of community. Eclectic places where you could share interests. Flash games.

All of that...I miss it. I don't know when people will start to realise what they've lost. The homogenisation of online; the conversion of all and sundry into data-packaged marketplaces; the domination of Twitter, Reddit, Discord, Tumblr, Instagram and Facebook; all of it. It's wrecked what was once virtual escapism into an overbearing, inescapable reality of harsh blue light and dopamine.

This forum - as prone to heated argument and the whirlpool of current affairs as it may be - is, comparatively, an oasis. We're not yet a Reddit page, and nobody's stolen our thunder. But it's so tragic that it should be alone, now, in the way that it is.

I grew up in the 00s and witnessed the end of the old internet. It happened without anyone really noticing, until the things you once visited from-time-to-time became a 404 and you had to use Wayback Machine to scrabble after those old sites. And people moved on into the other machine, the one of modern modern existence.

What with the Y2K resurgence in my generation on places like Tiktok (another of the detestable media giants) and new interests in fashion and film from the period, the lack of new proper webforums is a missed opportunity. I fear it's one the world has left behind. In the past I've mentioned my interest in Gorillaz - whose music and output still encapsulates the old ways of the noughties for me, so it's very nostalgic - as well as other music and media from the mid-2000s. I have this sense, however, that I missed out on something in those budding internet spaces.

Sorry for the essay. I suppose the point is that, like most things in the world right now, the internet seems to be in decline. Everything is inauthentic and homogenous. And I miss when it used to be diverse, and diverting; eclectic, and full of unknown spaces, brimming with new potential.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Sodium lights on our streets. I used to love the warm, comforting orange glow of these and the atmosphere at twilight of them switching on, at first bright red, and then yellow.
I used to love these growing up in York. They had a line of them all down Bishopthorpe Road, all orange and pink, and I used to squint at them on the way back home, and watch as they trailed off in different directions. It felt a little like I had this special power, to create those little light-trails.

Anyway I found myself back in York earlier in December, took a wander down Bishy Road to see the old house, and - lo and behold - they're still there! They still exist. So fear not, there's still some vestiges of the old times somewhere. :)
 

david1212

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Air shows have been mentioned but so many small and large scale events no longer happen because of OTT ' elf and safe tea ' partly driven by American style litigation looking for any opportunity to make a claim rather than the expectation of all to take reasonable care and use common sense. Organisers can no longer simply state on the ticket something like ' entry is at your own risk ' to encompass everything.

Compared to the prices of railtours today BR Merrymakers must have been more affordable. I just can not see how Dad would have regularly paid out the equivalent of £250 or so for two adults and a child.

Household items that were built to last and be serviceable / repairable. Regardless of the brand & purchase price things like fridge-freezers and washing machines have a shorter life then are scrapped which is not good environmentally.

Much more was produced in the UK e.g. cars, clothing, white goods. Back 50+ years ago we did not have the road network nor size of lorries of now yet distribution seemed not to be an issue. More people working in manufacturing / production rather than call centres, administration etc.

While there were groups most car dealers were a family business with a genuine interest in the customer service simply because any with a bad reputation were soon out of business. Now the priority of the salesperson and mechanics, sorry workshop technicians, so often seems to be more about meeting targets set by management. For each manufacturer group the customer often has no choice of dealer group without travelling miles. E.g. one dealer group has all of VW, Audi, Seat, Skoda, Lexus & Toyota. The same dealer group having all Ford sites in an area etc.
 

43096

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Air shows have been mentioned but so many small and large scale events no longer happen because of OTT ' elf and safe tea ' partly driven by American style litigation looking for any opportunity to make a claim rather than the expectation of all to take reasonable care and use common sense. Organisers can no longer simply state on the ticket something like ' entry is at your own risk ' to encompass everything.
Of course, the deaths of 11 people at Shoreham Air Show in 2015 might also have something to do with the tighter regulations. I'm not sure how those 11 people would have signed up to a "at your own risk" clause as they weren't at the air show and were unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time on the road when the plane crashed onto their cars.
 

The Ham

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Much more was produced in the UK e.g. cars, clothing, white goods. Back 50+ years ago we did not have the road network nor size of lorries of now yet distribution seemed not to be an issue. More people working in manufacturing / production rather than call centres, administration etc.

Perhaps because at the start of the 20th century the amount of man-made stuff was 2% of the natural stuff, now it's over 100% (i.e. for every 50 tonnes of wildlife, plant life, etc. it used to be that there was 1 tonne now it's over 50 tonnes).

That's going to have an impact on how much stuff that needs moving about.
 

bspahh

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More comedy on telly (fewer dreary soap operas and reality t.v.)
Really? There are lots of dreary soap operas, and reality TV, but there is still a lot of comedy being broadcast.

You can see old issues of the Radio Times from the 1920s to 2009 here https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/issues
The current BBC schedules are at https://www.bbc.co.uk/schedules and that is without Channel 4 and Dave.

Jimmy Carr said the other day that a panel shows is basically stand up comedy.

Scripted comedy is hard work, and it always has been, which means that it takes time and money to get a good script.

I listened to a podcast recently (probably Now, Where Were We? with Barry Cryer and Stephen Fry), which quoted John Cleese as saying that after 3 or 4 rewrites of the scripts, Fawlty Towers would have been as good enough for a late night ITV sit com. It was the 17th and 18th rewrite, where it started to shine.
 

yorksrob

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Really? There are lots of dreary soap operas, and reality TV, but there is still a lot of comedy being broadcast.

You can see old issues of the Radio Times from the 1920s to 2009 here https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/issues
The current BBC schedules are at https://www.bbc.co.uk/schedules and that is without Channel 4 and Dave.

Jimmy Carr said the other day that a panel shows is basically stand up comedy.

Scripted comedy is hard work, and it always has been, which means that it takes time and money to get a good script.

I listened to a podcast recently (probably Now, Where Were We? with Barry Cryer and Stephen Fry), which quoted John Cleese as saying that after 3 or 4 rewrites of the scripts, Fawlty Towers would have been as good enough for a late night ITV sit com. It was the 17th and 18th rewrite, where it started to shine.

Really yes !

I sort of see what you're saying though :)

I've found myself becoming less interested in stand up comedy and panel shows because they fit my world view less than they did when I was in my twenties. Radio 4 has lots of stand-up comedy nowadays and I just don't find it funny most of the time.

Sketch shows tend to be more absurd, even where repetitive and I find them easier to get on with. Give me Little Britain or Catherine Tate anyday.

That's not too say I don't like modern comedy. As mentioned, Greg Davies and Jason Manford's recent sitcoms were very enjoyable (second series please) although I wonder whether they've been given enough of a chance, squirreled away on BBC3. Friday Night Dinner if another classic that will stand the test of time.

I just get the feeling that there's not enough of it. I've been watching sitcoms from the 70's and 80's recently including Just Good Friends, which is excellent (I haven't seen it for around thirty years) and Bless this House with the wonderful Sid James, and i'd take them over the soap operas and reality t.v. of today.
 

AM9

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If you get the chance , visit the Beamish living museum in Stanley co Durham. It has a chippy and they cook them like that. Absolutely gorgeous.
And (I think) at Blist's Hill Coalbrookdale museum. They were certainly very good.
 
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