The Transport Game

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I prefer to use the TfL website.

I also use the various "Traveline" sites that cover all the area used in this quiz

 

[dzug2]

The TfL site can be idiosyncratic - it won't show the No 46 journey I made, for example, insisting on a routing that takes twice as long changing at Camden Town. Even if it's told no changes.

The London bus routes site at least has actual timetables

 

[High Dyke]

Interestingly enough the TfL Journey Planner gave these results.

From Hampstead Heath
To Archway
Leaving on Tue 18 Jun 2013 at 19:30
Exclude Rail, DLR, Tube, Trams, National Express, Emirates Air Line, River
 
1 19:22 19:46 00:24  
2 19:30 19:55 00:25  
3 19:39 20:05 00:26  
4 19:49 20:15 00:26

The planner breaks the journey into the following constituent parts:

Hampstead Heath; Walk to South End Green (NW3)Stop: B (3 minutes)

South End Green (NW3); Take the Route Bus C11 from Stop: B towards Archway (approx 22 mins)

The timetable shown on the TfL website is here: http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/user/AHF/TLJJP12P1__00004012.pdf

Traveline South East gives this journey plan.

From Hampstead, Hampstead Heath Rail Station to Archway, Archway Station

You asked to travel on Tuesday 18th June departing at 1930
Only Bus.No walk to stop. 

1.  1922 1946 0 00:24       
2.  1930 1955 0 00:25       
3.  1939 2005 0 00:26       
4.  1949 2015 0 00:26

Transport Direct shows similar options to the above two planners.
http://www.transportdirect.info/Web2/JourneyPlanning/JourneyDetails.aspx?cacheparam=4

London Bus Routes have this timetable: http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/C11.htm

Hampstead Heath, South End Green   1925 1933 1942 1952 2002 2012 2022 2032 2043 2053
Gospel Oak Station                 1930 1938 1947 1957 2007 2017 2027 2036 2046 2056
Parliament Hill Fields             1933 1941 1950 2000 2010 2020 2030 2039 2049 2059
Dartmouth Park Hill, Raydon Street 1937 1945 1954 2004 2014 2024 2033 2042 2052 2102
Archway Station, Macdonald Road    1939 1947 1956 2006 2016 2026 2035 2044 2054 2104

Personally my initial choice would be the TfL website.

 

[Zoe]

The details you posted above show journeys from Hampstead station and not the South End Green bus stop (which is where the previous move actually left us). but the times seem to be departure times of the buses from the South End Green bus stop. These are still different from the londonbusroutes.net timetables.

 

[High Dyke]

The details you posted above show journeys from Hampstead station and not the South End Green bus stop (which is where the previous move actually left us). but the times seem to be departure times of the buses from the South End Green bus stop. These are still different from the londonbusroutes.net timetables.

Hence why i stated it involves a walk from the station to the stop of 3 minutes duration. However as the journey is not from the station then it should be considered that the Tfl journey planner gives this info.

From South End Green (NW3)
To Archway
Leaving on Tue 18 Jun 2013 at 19:30
 
1 19:22 19:43 00:21  
2 19:30 19:52 00:22  
3 19:39 20:02 00:23  
4 19:49 20:12 00:23

It seems to be the same as previously posted, but the three minute walk that wasn't required isn't included into the plan...

London Bus Routes show this: http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/C11.htm

Hampstead Heath, South End Green   1925 1933 1942 1952 2002 2012
Gospel Oak Station                 1930 1938 1947 1957 2007 2017 
Parliament Hill Fields             1933 1941 1950 2000 2010 2020 
Dartmouth Park Hill, Raydon Street 1937 1945 1954 2004 2014 2024 
Archway Station, Macdonald Road    1939 1947 1956 2006 2016 2026

My assumption is that the discrepancy is caused by the flexibility of the timetable. London Bus Routes show a timetable that has the flexibility accounted for whilst the TfL planner merely states that buses vary anywhere from every 7 - 8 minutes up to every 10 minutes.

However that still doesn't solve the problem of which one is correct. It could be that they are both correct in their own way. :roll:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

However that still doesn't solve the problem of which one is correct. It could be that they are both correct in their own way. :roll:

.........And here we have the nub of the problem.:roll:

Are we now any nearer to a resolution of this matter ?

Once a decision is reached, a special "London Bus" sub-section of the rules should be Incorporated.

 

[Zoe]

It seems to be the same as previously posted, but the three minute walk that wasn't required isn't included into the plan...

If I enter Hampstead Heath station as the origin it gives me different departure times (1933, 1943, 1952) which say nothing about the time the bus departs from the bus stop, only the time the walk should be started. When entering South End Green though it gives the same times. Another advantage of the TfL website is that you can look up stop specific times whereas londonbusroutes.net only shows times for key locations.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If I enter Hampstead Heath station as the origin it gives me different departure times (1933, 1943, 1952) which say nothing about the time the bus departs from the bus stop, only the time the walk should be started.

We have a very hard and fast ruling on this quiz about walking, as was recently made the point of a scenario in Blaenau Ffestiniog.

 

[Zoe]

We have a very hard and fast ruling on this quiz about walking, as was recently made the point of a scenario in Blaenau Ffestiniog.

I wasn't suggesting that a walk should be allowed in this case, only that the journey planner was showing a different departure time when including a walk. It seems that the TfL journey planner is the way to go so I have updated the rules to show this and we will RESUME from Hampstead Heath South End Green at 1931 on Tuesday.

 

[dzug2]

HOLD HOLD HOLD

Using the TfL journey planner it is not possible to make the journey arriving at 1931 - the stop name is different (Royal Free Hospital - I think) and it takes nearly twice as long as the London bus route timetable suggests.

Therefore we are back to Kings Cross Piccy Line at 1906 on Tuesday evening. Do we resume from here?

 

[Zoe]

HOLDING while this is investigated.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I don't seem to be able to get the Journey planner to accept any journey southbound on the 46 from King's Cross but this service clearly does run so it may well be an error on the journey planner. Without any clear journey times though under the rules, this service is not useable so we are indeed back at King's Cross St Pancras at 1906 on Tuesday and this is where we will RESUME from. dzug2 has priority to post the next move until 1000 tomorrow.

 

[dzug2]

Rather than grapple with the vagaries of London's buses, and indeed other transport, at least for a while, we decide to high tail it out of the capital on Grand Central's 1918 departure from Kings Cross mainline station to Eaglescliffe arriving at 2203 on Tuesday evening

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

We next board the 2252 Northern service to Middlesbrough that arrives there at 2304 on Tuesday evening.

 

[dzug2]

We wonder if there is a late bus to some godforsaken suburb but decide it's unlikely - and the bus station is 10 minutes walk away anyway - so we catch the 0704 Northern service to Whitby arriving at 0838 on Wednesday morning

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

After examining the newly reinstated second platform at the railway station, we make our way outside to the bus shelter where we board the 0905 Arriva North East service 93 to Robin Hoods Bay (Thorpe Lane) that arrives there at 0924 on Wednesday morning.

 

[dzug2]

We continue on the X93 at 0954, and travel to Scarborough West Square, arriving at 1032 Wednesday morning

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Having enough of omnibus coastal services and wishing to see what the country hinterland has to offer, we next board an omnibus service we have used in the past and board the 1110 Scarborough and District Motor Services service 128 to Wilton (Village Hall) that arrives there at 1154 on Wednesday morning.

 

[dzug2]

The delights of Wilton soon pall, so we continue on the next service 128 departure at 1304, arriving at Helmsley Square (or Feathers Hotel depending on whose timetable you look at) at 1350 Wednesday afternoon

 

[High Dyke]

We don't have too long to wait until the 14:10 Stephensons of Easingwold 194 service arrives and we are conveyed as far as Hovingham (Worsley Arms) arriving at 14:35 on Wednesday afternoon.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

After exploring the local sights and taking refreshments, we next board the 1600 Stephensons of Easingwold service 194 to Malton bus station that arrives there at 1625 on Wednesday afternoon.

 

[dzug2]

We then catch Stephensons 183 service at 1700 to Bulmer arriving at 1722 Wednesday afternoon

 

[High Dyke]

We find there is no further public transport from this settlement this evening so find some form of accommodation to spend the night.

The following morning we are back at the stop we arrived at the previous night to board the 07:25 Stephensons of Easingwold 181 service which conveys us to Sand Hutton (School) arriving at 08:02 on Thursday morning.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

After an unsuccessful attempt to see much of what now remains of the former narrow-gauge Sand Hutton Light Railway, we return to the bus stop at the school and board the 0851 Stephensons of Easingwold service 180 to Castle Howard (Obelisk) that arrives there at 0943 on Thursday morning

 

[dzug2]

As the 0945 departure is the bus we got off and thus a through service, we decide we cannot use it, so spend a couple of hours at Castle Howard and then catch Stephenson's 181 service at 1150 to York Stonebow, arriving at 1247 Thursday lunch time.

 

[Trainfan344]

We head back for the railway by bording the 12:55 First West & North Yorkshire number 12 service to York Rail Station Stop H (Station Road) arriving there at 13:02 Thursday Afternoon.

 

[ModernRailways]

Glad to be back on the trains, we are presented with a large amount of services to choose from. We end up deciding to take the 1326 First Transpennine Express service all the way to Manchester Airport arriving at 1512 Thursday afternoon

 

[High Dyke]

Although we could travel by train to a multitude of places from here we decide to continue with road transport, to a place that lost its passenger train service in 1964.

We board the 13:12 Eddie Brown coaches service 412 to Wetherby (Bus Station) arriving at 14:00 on Thursday.

 

[dzug2]

Not wishing to hang around an airport too long, but desirous of refreshments before leaving, we catch the 1603 Northern service to Appley Bridge arriving at 1711 Thursday afternoon

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Not enough time to explore the area of the Leeds and Liverpool canal as we have to board the 1722 Northern service to Daisy Hill that arrives there at 1741 on Thursday evening.

 

[Trainfan344]

We head for central Manchester by boarding the 18:09 Northern Rail service to Manchester Victoria arriving there at 18:43 Thursday Afternoon