The sharpest curves

[najaB]

Used to have a pumped water lubrication system but long term out of use

Is there any reason for pumped water rather than a flange greaser? I've never heard of one of those before.

 

[Geeves]

Brewery Junction curve at Miles Platting east of Victoria is pretty sharp. I think it's 10mph. 142s have become stuck on it in the past.

 

[JohnRegular]

The north-east (or east-north depending on your outlook on life) curve near Westbury is a real squealer.

Honourable mention to the Rhubarb curve in Bristol.

 

[ricoblade]

The curve from Retford high level down to the Worksop line is pretty sharp, made the Pacer I was on last time I experienced it squeal!

I just checked and for anyone wanting to experience it, I think the only service to use it is the 09:12 to Meadowhall on a Sunday, starting at Retford Platform 2.

 

[Railcar]

The 'Wall Of Death' between Sutton and West Sutton?

 

[frodshamfella]

I think you mean at Earlestown station. The south-to-east and south-to-west curves there are both extremely tight, with the former being perhaps a bit tighter, to judge from the OS 1:25k map.

Yes thats the one !!

 

[SteveyBee131]

I just checked and for anyone wanting to experience it, I think the only service to use it is the 09:12 to Meadowhall on a Sunday, starting at Retford Platform 2.

There's a couple of early morning and late evening weekday trips too...

... this is Real Time Trains showing several Northern workings using platform 2 at Retford Upper today

 

[Western 52]

In Wales, the curve over the mainline bridge between Cardiff Central and Queen Street is very sharp with a lot of flange squeel.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Leaving Shepherd's Bush LU westbound is the sharpest I've personally seen.

 

[class26]

I just watched a cab ride of it and it said 25 eastbound. Westbound is a tighter curve so might be slower.

They are both 25 mph

 

[MadMarsupial]

Gotham curve 5 mph

After 6 mins or so

 

[Rescars]

What about the curve between Shrub Hill Junction and Rainbow Hill Junction in Worcester?

 

[Springs Branch]

Leaving Shepherd's Bush LU westbound is the sharpest I've personally seen.

I believe that's the Caxton Curve, the sharpest on the entire Underground system, according to this link on Wayback Machine
The relevant extract is:-

To avoid paying compensation to property owners, the line was constructed as far as possible underneath existing roads, hence the twists and turns in the Bank area. But the sharpest curve on the Central line, and indeed the entire London Underground system, is actually the Caxton Curve, between Shepherds Bush and White City.

It's a 60 m (200 ft) radius, but hard to appreciate being totally underground.

 

[Ken H]

I believe that's the Caxton Curve, the sharpest on the entire Underground system, according to this link on Wayback Machine
The relevant extract is:-


It's a 60 m (200 ft) radius, but hard to appreciate being totally underground.

Much of the tube was constructed under roads to avoid wayleave payments. Victoria Line broke that tradition. So thats why there are many curves underground.

 

[38Cto15E]

Syston North Jct to East Jct is quite sharp. Although not many passenger trains use it daily.

 

[ac6000cw]

I don't know the radius, but Stourbridge North Junction where the line to Birmingham curves away has check rails, a 15 mph limit and is on an upward slope towards Stourbridge from Lye, so trains in that direction are climbing around a sharp curve, just to add to the fun.

In Cambridge, the curve away from Coldhams Lane Junction towards Newmarket is 20 mph (or possibly lower at the level crossing point) with a check rail.

 

[Express380]

Bere Alston to Gunnislake must be a shout, most of that is 10-15 mph with the maximum being 20 mph

 

[Train jaune]

Yes, out of Carnforth heading for Skipton on a Pacer! You needed to have your fingers in your ears

 

[ac6000cw]

A 'What are the sharpest curves on Network Rail routes?' thread from 2014 - https://railforums.co.uk/threads/trivia-what-are-the-sharpest-curves-on-network-rail-routes.103979/

 

[Pinus contorta]

Yes, out of Carnforth heading for Skipton on a Pacer! You needed to have your fingers in your ears

I was walking underneath the bridge there one time when a pacer passed through. Its was very noisy!

 

[AJG3]

Currock Junction where the Cumbrian coast line diverges from the WCML just south of Carlisle Citadel would be a contender

 

[tallpaul82]

Leeds - Harrogate line, Crimple Curve sub 200m radius.

I was just going to post the same. 20mph speed restriction

 

[jopsuk]

local to me, the curve at Coldham Lane junction onto the Newmarket Branch. Approx 200m radius, OpenRailwayMap has it down as 25mph, Plus it goes through approx 120°

 

[MarkyT]

I don't know the radius, but Stourbridge North Junction where the line to Birmingham curves away has check rails, a 15 mph limit and is on an upward slope towards Stourbridge from Lye, so trains in that direction are climbing around a sharp curve, just to add to the fun.

About 220m radius, according to Google Earth.

In Cambridge, the curve away from Coldhams Lane Junction towards Newmarket is 20 mph (or possibly lower at the level crossing point) with a check rail.

About 180m radius.

 

[BrianW]

I'm finding it interesting that there are so many 'contenders'. Are there no definitive figures? I woild have imagined it might be a factor in deciding what lengths of train or vehicle might be permitted and also a factor in matters of speed limits? I guess it's also a factor in determining wheel profile design?

 

[MarkyT]

I'm finding it interesting that there are so many 'contenders'. Are there no definitive figures? I woild have imagined it might be a factor in deciding what lengths of train or vehicle might be permitted and also a factor in matters of speed limits? I guess it's also a factor in determining wheel profile design?

No definitive source unfortunately, but I've read, possibly in these forums, that for new UK construction, an absolute minimum for passenger curves today is 150m radius. Might be in TSIs? There are equations for curve speed clearly which also depends on the degree of cant used and the acceptable cant deficiency. Here's one cited in handy mixed UK units, with a bonus graph!

Appendix C - Rail speed v. track curvature

Appendix C: Calculation of rail line speed as a function of track curvature
We have adopted the following limit for curve radius as a function of line speed:

 

[BrianW]

No definitive source unfortunately, but I've read, possibly in these forums, that for new UK construction, an absolute minimum for passenger curves today is 150m radius. Might be in TSIs? There are equations for curve speed clearly which also depends on the degree of cant used and the acceptable cant deficiency. Here's one cited in handy mixed UK units, with a bonus graph!

Appendix C - Rail speed v. track curvature

Thank you for that. I'm trying to picture the research carried out to determine the formula- trains wizzing round bends of declining radius until they fall off or over.
A bit like the apochryphal London Double-decker Bus being tilted with a kind of swingometer big hand to show the degree of tilt:

Proving that London's Double-Decker Buses Were Not a Tipping Hazard, 1933 - Rare Historical Photos

The first engine-powered double-decker bus appeared in London in 1923. The red double-decker buses in London would become a national symbol of England.

rarehistoricalphotos.com

I imagine the APT was submitted to similar assessment including being 'too slow' on curves and tipping tea or soup into laps.

 

[MarkyT]

Thank you for that. I'm trying to picture the research carried out to determine the formula- trains wizzing round bends of declining radius until they fall off or over.

I'm sure it's all calculated theoretically initially by boffins, but I suppose you could confirm it with an ever-tightening spiral. You send the test train in fully sensored up from the outside at a set speed and see at what radius it starts to tip alarmingly, hoping you can then brake sufficiently before it actually turns over!

 

[frodshamfella]

Having travelled from Liverpool to Frodsham last Sunday via Halton Curve, that was rather screechy !

 

[sw1ller]

Having travelled from Liverpool to Frodsham last Sunday via Halton Curve, that was rather screechy !

That’s 20mph though, and it doesn’t look, from a drivers point of view at least, that tight. Same goes for Earlstown as suggested by @frodshamfella whilst this is probably the tightest curve on a platform, it’s not the tightest curve.

Wrexham Central to General is 15mph but I don’t think that’s as tight as Llandudno Junction to Deganwy.

I have noticed on the crossover from one of the lines between Dutton and Halewood (can’t think exactly where) that the track is at an angle rather than a curve, don’t know how the freight manages it safely!