The Pretendolino thread

[MCR247]

1843 The 1903 is what it worked when it was doing full diagrams IIRC

 

[45rpm]

thanks mcr247. i looked on nationalrail.co.uk & found a departure at 18:43 but not one at 19:03 so i assumed that unless it was an unadvertised additional that the latter didn`t run. i might give it a go this friday...

 

[Chester025]

The only booked working for the set is the 1843 Euston - Crewe via the West Mids on a Friday only.

 

[MCR247]

thanks mcr247. i looked on nationalrail.co.uk & found a departure at 18:43 but not one at 19:03 so i assumed that unless it was an unadvertised additional that the latter didn't run. i might give it a go this friday...

The 1903 is a Birmingham service, as is the xx43, but the 1843 runs forward to Crewe

 

[33056]

Definitely the 1843 Euston to Crewe (via Birmingham)

 

[craig87034]

90045 expected to do tommorrows 1K39 1843 Euston-Crewe

 

[45rpm]

90045 did indeed produce last night. very nice i think she looks in freightliner livery too. i had her from coventry to crewe. i saw a few enthusiasts at coventry but as i don`t know anyone from this forum personally i didn`t mix with anyone. thanks for all the info everyone.

 

[TomJ93]

You weren't one of the blokes in coach A shouting PEDNED were you?

 

[crewmeal]

So what will be on the front of the Edinburgh charter on the 9th July I wonder???

 

[45rpm]

i wasn`t in coach a & i most certainly was not shouting "pedned". i`m not uncouth!

 

[craig87034]

for the skoda fans its 90046 tomorrow

 

[Wigan Wanderer]

90043 booked for 1K39 today.

 

[Hydro]

Seen entering and reversing out of MKC earlier. 043 indeed doing the honours.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Finally, I clear my FL 90s!

And that's all I'll get; I still need 90 037 and 90 040 to clear the fleet but I doubt they'll ever run again...

 

[Holly]

Please excuse two naïve questions from someone who knows no better than to ask but:
- Since the Pretendolino is so liked by passengers why aren't there more of them?
- Why isn't it used on the Holyhead service, where it seems it would be particularly suitable?

 

[Nym]

Please excuse two naïve questions from someone who knows no better than to ask but:
- Since the Pretendolino is so liked by passengers why aren't there more of them?
- Why isn't it used on the Holyhead service, where it seems it would be particularly suitable?

I'll try and make this sound polite, but I may well fail badly.

The 'pretendalino' is limited to 110mph on the WCML. It always has been and always will be, this means that it cannot run as a part of the VHF timetable.

The only reason it manages on some of the Birmingham runs is because of the slack and stops on that route. And it usually arrives slightly late.

It could work on the Holyhead service, but it would run a lot slower, as it would need to use a slow path in the Trent Valley, or have a que of 3 or 4 pendos heading for Manchester and Crewe queing up behind it.

Put simply, they can't tilt. And can't break 110mph.

The ONLY stock that can go faster than 110mph on the WCML EPS Sections, such as the Trent Valley (and everything except a couple of bits between wolves and crewe) are:

Class 221 Super Voyagers
Class 390 Pendos

And...

Class 370 APT-P
And the APT-E

Although the latter two do not use TASS...

 

[junglejames]

Please excuse two naïve questions from someone who knows no better than to ask but:
- Since the Pretendolino is so liked by passengers why aren't there more of them?
- Why isn't it used on the Holyhead service, where it seems it would be particularly suitable?

Simple answer is speed. 110 for the loco hauled set, 125 for the voyagers or pendys. Plus the loco hauled set cant tilt.
The WCML obviously used to be full of these loco hauled sets. They were all Virgin had when they took over the franchise. However to speed up journey times they went through the massive replacement programme, which see's us with pendys nowadays. The loco hauled set is only kept as a back up, and to operate the Fridays only service, as VT dont have enough Pendys.

The Mk3s on the loco hauled set are arguably more comfortable, but they have not been looked after by virgin, and are in a bit of a state.

Regarding using it to Holyhead. This would require a loco change at Crewe, and Virgin seem to prefer just running voyagers straight through.
It seems a good idea, but not something Virgin would be keen on.

 

[thefab444]

The ONLY stock that can go faster than 110mph on the WCML EPS Sections, such as the Trent Valley (and everything except a couple of bits between wolves and crewe) are:

Class 221 Super Voyagers
Class 390 Pendos

Would I be right in thinking there are a few sections where 221s are limited to the lower speed as they tilt less than the 390s, or have I made that up?

 

[Nym]

Would I be right in thinking there are a few sections where 221s are limited to the lower speed as they tilt less than the 390s, or have I made that up?

That would be correct that there are differential EPS speed limits.

221s tilt 6deg and 390s 9deg IIRC...

It would be a laugh if there was a section of line with 4 or perhaps 5 difrerent speed limits...

60/80MU 105/110EPS for example

 

[Lampshade]

Regarding using it to Holyhead. This would require a loco change at Crewe, and Virgin seem to prefer just running voyagers straight through.
It seems a good idea, but not something Virgin would be keen on.

Or it could just be diesel hauled all the way, although are there many 110mph diesel locos?

 

[Nym]

Or it could just be diesel hauled all the way, although are there many 110mph diesel locos?

I know of at least 197 produced capable of 110mph and 194 of these still serviceable....

 

[Holly]

Simple answer is speed. 110 for the loco hauled set, 125 for the voyagers or pendys. ... The loco hauled set is only kept as a back up, and to operate the Fridays only service, as VT dont have enough Pendys.
The Mk3s on the loco hauled set are arguably more comfortable, but ...

That Friday train is a great opportunity to do some market research into whether passengers who had a free choice between two trains on adjacent platforms (and leaving one after the other) would choose speed or comfort.
My guess is the TOC would rather not know the answer

 

[Lampshade]

I know of at least 197 produced capable of 110mph and 194 of these still serviceable....

No I said locos

 

[Blindtraveler]

390 v MK3? Mk3. Failing that, a more cumfortable seat and a few less unplesent smells, not to mention a reduction in rattles would greatly improve the 390 experience.

 

[Holly]

390 v MK3? Mk3. Failing that, a more cumfortable seat and a few less unplesent smells, not to mention a reduction in rattles would greatly improve the 390 experience.

Ah, but people in this forum are not a representative sample of passengers.
And neither is a convenience sample of people who choose to complete surveys.
But giving people a real choice (with no money implications) would produce real results. As soon as money is on the table passengers will mostly go for a lower fare and TOCs will invariably go for a higher profit.

I assume the problem with Pendolino comfort arises out of the fact that, on average, Italian people are smaller than British people.

 

[Blindtraveler]

well that may be the case but interestingly, on a recent day out, 2 of my mates who think a trains a train picked the loco hauled MK2 to take them from Edinburgh to Burntisland beach rather than the 170 on the opposite platform. There was around 8 mins difference in departure time and we could have made iether. The reason I got when asking? Those seats look cumfyer

 

[150222]

Or it could just be diesel hauled all the way, although are there many 110mph diesel locos?

67's?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
am i right in thinking that when 390054 enters service the pretendolino will be removed from service or will they just keep it (passenger growth etc.)

 

[Nym]

I don't want to see this Mk3 vs 390 argument again!

You can't do Manchester, Liverpool or Wigan - London in 2hrs on a Mk3, you can on a 390...

If the seating layout is sorted at the refurbishment and corrected so that they line up, and theres slightly less, then I don't see any problems with them!

 

[Tracked]

I assume the problem with Pendolino comfort arises out of the fact that, on average, Italian people are smaller than British people.

I went on my first the other day, Glasgow to Euston, I didn't have any issues with comfort but I am fairly small. Having said that, I was surprised at the seats on the 165 I went on yesterday from Oxford, the only way I could've fitted within the width of the seat would've involved the removal on an arm ...

 

[150222]

I went on my first the other day, Glasgow to Euston, I didn't have any issues with comfort but I am fairly small. Having said that, I was surprised at the seats on the 165 I went on yesterday from Oxford, the only way I could've fitted within the width of the seat would've involved the removal on an arm ...

that is often the case on trains with 2x3 seating. not so much on a northern 150 but notably on some desiros