The Leamside line

[PinzaC55]

Bejasus the amount of veggie at Fencehouses is incredible!!

 

[Spaceflower]

Ive walked the line in its entirity between Shincliffe and Fence Houses and there are woods growing between the rails south of Fence Houses, fly tipping at Leamside, and there are bits of trackwork missing and landslips along the entire stretch.
In short, the whole lot would need replacing.

 

[ReverendFozz]

Bejasus the amount of veggie at Fencehouses is incredible!!

Ive walked the line in its entirity between Shincliffe and Fence Houses and there are woods growing between the rails south of Fence Houses, fly tipping at Leamside, and there are bits of trackwork missing and landslips along the entire stretch.
In short, the whole lot would need replacing.

There is a lot more on the stetch between Fencehouses and Washington, theres a patch at Barmston, where the line runs parlell with Barmston Way, like I said it is between Victoria Viaduct and Sulgrave, I have had my dog down there for a walk a couple of times, Im hoping to do the length of track between Sulgrave and Durham next time round, will try and get some photos if I can get my phone sorted out, it is a shame the line has become so neglected, because it is a nice stretch through the area, especially from Fatfield(Victoria Viaduct to Durham).

I dn't how much a project of this size would cost, but I can't see it being cheap, I'm guessing at least 10's of millions, if not 100's, for signalling, new track, new sleepers, sorting out landslides etc, and where would the money come from, I can't see David Cameron and Nick Clegg let it be publically funded, even matched public funding, I was thinking something aong the lines of funding coming from interested TOC's and local Industry, so Port of Tyne and Nissan contribute some of the readies for it, or make it a condition of a new or existing franchise when they are due for renewal.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Been thinking about the Leamside Line, if it ever were to come back into use, would it not be worth Doubling the line all the way to South Hylton, then going beyond South Hylton to the Leamside Line, I was also thinking, could Park Lane not be converted into the Mainline Station for Sunderland, with a loop to Newcastle, Park Lane-Washington-Newcastle-Sunderland(via Durham Coast Line) and a loop to Teesside, Park Lane-Washington-Fencehouses-Durham 'Parkway'-Ferryhill-Stockton-Boro-Hartlepool-Sunderland(via Durham Coast), with the possibility of adding some long distance services out of Park Lane to York, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, even Edinburgh or Glasgow(via Carlisle), that would use the Leamside, giving Sunderland a link with Durham without going onto the ECML, I don't think it should be used for Metro to be honest, keep it heavy rail to try and provide long lost links, also as part of my idea, I would convert the rest of the Sunderland line to Heavy Rail from Park Lane to South Hylton, with immediate stations being utilised for local stopping service between Sunderland, Washington and Newcastle.

Not sure if it is even feasible to do that or what, just thought I would throw my own tuppence worth in

 

[142094]

Wonder if it could be done in some way such as HS1. Either that or selling the land off completely to a private company, who have running rights to Middlesbrough and Newcastle and own the rest of the line and stations.

 

[ReverendFozz]

Wonder if it could be done in some way such as HS1. Either that or selling the land off completely to a private company, who have running rights to Middlesbrough and Newcastle and own the rest of the line and stations.

Is there not some kind of Network Rail Agreement sthat would put a block on Sale of Land on and around the track, or is it just to discourage anybody but railway people from buying it, meaning a Railway could buy, but solely for reinstating it.

Would it not be worthwhile designating it as a Community Rail Project, possibly as some kind of Consortium between the relevant the Relevant Councils, Nexus, Northern Rail/X-Country(as I would consider running X-Country trains up there and the communities themselves, basically if they want the route and a use for it is identified and confirmed, then communities should chip in to make it happen.

Like I was saying before I would maybes get X-Country involved to call at a Durham Parkway and Washington Parkway.

Am I right in saying that at present X Country services branch off at Leeds to go either Sheffield or Doncaster, split the route at Darlo, have half go up the ECML, the other half going through Stillington and Leamside to commute to Durham or Washington

 

[PinzaC55]

ReverendFozz said "Been thinking about the Leamside Line, if it ever were to come back into use, would it not be worth Doubling the line all the way to South Hylton, then going beyond South Hylton to the Leamside Line, I was also thinking, could Park Lane not be converted into the Mainline Station for Sunderland, with a loop to Newcastle, Park Lane-Washington-Newcastle-Sunderland(via Durham Coast Line) and a loop to Teesside, Park Lane-Washington-Fencehouses-Durham 'Parkway'-Ferryhill-Stockton-Boro-Hartlepool-Sunderland(via Durham Coast), with the possibility of adding some long distance services out of Park Lane to York, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, even Edinburgh or Glasgow(via Carlisle), that would use the Leamside, giving Sunderland a link with Durham without going onto the ECML, I don't think it should be used for Metro to be honest, keep it heavy rail to try and provide long lost links, also as part of my idea, I would convert the rest of the Sunderland line to Heavy Rail from Park Lane to South Hylton, with immediate stations being utilised for local stopping service between Sunderland, Washington and Newcastle.

The Hylton line is already double except for a 100 yards or so approaching the platform.If Hylton station proper was reopened it would mean reinstatement of the level crossing and the present platform would be better off being relocated to the original site on the other side of the road.
My understanding of the line is that it is engineered to Heavy Rail standards but I think the ferocious gradients on the approach to Pallion station would knock seven bells out of most diesel rolling stock.
Even in BR days the climb out of Sunderland to Fawcett Street Junction (site of Park Lane station) was often too much for a Deltic!

PS I nearly forgot one of the problems with reopening Hylton - Penshaw is that when the A19 was built just west of Hylton in 1970 a bridge was provided over the trackbed (in fact the rails were still in position then , disused for 3 years) but it was given a solid concrete base (at track height) and is not wide enough for double track.
My naturally cynical nature makes me think that this done on purpose so the line could not be reopened, as the entire bridge would need to be replaced at enormous cost.

 

[Jonny]

ReverendFozz said "Been thinking about the Leamside Line, if it ever were to come back into use, would it not be worth Doubling the line all the way to South Hylton, then going beyond South Hylton to the Leamside Line, I was also thinking, could Park Lane not be converted into the Mainline Station for Sunderland, with a loop to Newcastle, Park Lane-Washington-Newcastle-Sunderland(via Durham Coast Line) and a loop to Teesside, Park Lane-Washington-Fencehouses-Durham 'Parkway'-Ferryhill-Stockton-Boro-Hartlepool-Sunderland(via Durham Coast), with the possibility of adding some long distance services out of Park Lane to York, Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool, even Edinburgh or Glasgow(via Carlisle), that would use the Leamside, giving Sunderland a link with Durham without going onto the ECML, I don't think it should be used for Metro to be honest, keep it heavy rail to try and provide long lost links, also as part of my idea, I would convert the rest of the Sunderland line to Heavy Rail from Park Lane to South Hylton, with immediate stations being utilised for local stopping service between Sunderland, Washington and Newcastle.

The Hylton line is already double except for a 100 yards or so approaching the platform.If Hylton station proper was reopened it would mean reinstatement of the level crossing and the present platform would be better off being relocated to the original site on the other side of the road.
My understanding of the line is that it is engineered to Heavy Rail standards but I think the ferocious gradients on the approach to Pallion station would knock seven bells out of most diesel rolling stock.
Even in BR days the climb out of Sunderland to Fawcett Street Junction (site of Park Lane station) was often too much for a Deltic!

PS I nearly forgot one of the problems with reopening Hylton - Penshaw is that when the A19 was built just west of Hylton in 1970 a bridge was provided over the trackbed (in fact the rails were still in position then , disused for 3 years) but it was given a solid concrete base (at track height) and is not wide enough for double track.
My naturally cynical nature makes me think that this done on purpose so the line could not be reopened, as the entire bridge would need to be replaced at enormous cost.

Also, from South Hylton onwards, any reconstruction would struggle with the "no new level crossings" rule. It would have about 4 or 5 just to Penshaw.

 

[PinzaC55]

"Also, from South Hylton onwards, any reconstruction would struggle with the "no new level crossings" rule. It would have about 4 or 5 just to Penshaw. "

The "no new level crossings" "rule" is, I think, a kneejerk reaction to media coverage of accidents at level crossings which largely ignores the fact that such accidents are almost invariably the fault of road users.In any case it contains the proviso "except in exceptional circumstances". The only two "real" level crossings would be Hylton and Coxgreen - the crossings at Offerton and near Penshaw are little more than field and farm access and could easily be rerouted.
Is it really likely that if Network Rail, Nexus and Tyne & Wear Council decided between them to reopen the line they would say "ARRRGGGH!! - 2 level crossings so we can't do it"?

 

[ReverendFozz]

"Also, from South Hylton onwards, any reconstruction would struggle with the "no new level crossings" rule. It would have about 4 or 5 just to Penshaw. "

The "no new level crossings" "rule" is, I think, a kneejerk reaction to media coverage of accidents at level crossings which largely ignores the fact that such accidents are almost invariably the fault of road users.In any case it contains the proviso "except in exceptional circumstances". The only two "real" level crossings would be Hylton and Coxgreen - the crossings at Offerton and near Penshaw are little more than field and farm access and could easily be rerouted.
Is it really likely that if Network Rail, Nexus and Tyne & Wear Council decided between them to reopen the line they would say "ARRRGGGH!! - 2 level crossings so we can't do it"?

Where is the 4 or 5 Crossings, are they between Penshaw and Follingsby or Sunderland or Penshaw, the ones I only of are Sulgrave and Fencehouses, but then I don't the area where a train would run through beyond South Hylton to the Leamside Line, I dont know how feasible it would be, but simply build bridges wide enough to let trains through at Sulgrave, Fencehouses and elsewhere along the line, or use double barriers both sides to stop cars weaving through, or put traffic lights on the Crossing with a signal box at each crossing with somebody flicking the switch to turn the lights red when need be

 

[PinzaC55]

Where is the 4 or 5 Crossings, are they between Penshaw and Follingsby or Sunderland or Penshaw, the ones I only of are Sulgrave and Fencehouses, but then I don't the area where a train would run through beyond South Hylton to the Leamside Line, I dont know how feasible it would be, but simply build bridges wide enough to let trains through at Sulgrave, Fencehouses and elsewhere along the line, or use double barriers both sides to stop cars weaving through, or put traffic lights on the Crossing with a signal box at each crossing with somebody flicking the switch to turn the lights red when need be

Jonny was referring to Hylton to Penshaw which had "proper" (gated) crossings at Hylton and Coxgreen. There was a crossing at Offerton which had a signalbox until 1923 but as I said it is more or less just a farm crossing.Since the Leamside line has never been officially abandoned but is "mothballed" I don't think the H&SE could raise any objections to reinstatement of the level crossings at Fencehouses and so on.

 

[spoony]

Have been travelling past the Boldon Curve junction at Brockley Whinns Metro recently and it looks like the disused section is being repaired.

Old tracks been taken up and new ones put down it seems. Not long before a lot more freight traffic heads down the Durham Coast Line instead of the ECML.

Of course this has nothing much to do with the Leamside line.

 

[swt_passenger]

Of course this has nothing much to do with the Leamside line.

Only in the opposite sense, ie if they can path all the capacity they need down the coast there'll be less immediate need for the Leamside route...

 

[PinzaC55]

Only in the opposite sense, ie if they can path all the capacity they need down the coast there'll be less immediate need for the Leamside route...

And of course Sunderland station is already congested and freight trains will add to it's "diesel fume ambience" wheras the Leamside is a straight run avoiding any other services.

 

[142094]

Have been travelling past the Boldon Curve junction at Brockley Whinns Metro recently and it looks like the disused section is being repaired.

Old tracks been taken up and new ones put down it seems. Not long before a lot more freight traffic heads down the Durham Coast Line instead of the ECML.

Of course this has nothing much to do with the Leamside line.

It has taken them a while to do it, considering that it has been in the Route Utilisation Stragetgy for a long time. Tyne Dock keeps winning contracts to move stuff, one of the recent ones has been biofuels for somewhere on Teesside.

One thing this does mean is that there is a greater likelihood of Metros using the line and infilling the Brockley Whins - Tyne Dock gap.

 

[Hydro]

I went down the line to Tyne Dock the other day, and there was a lot of infrastructure work going on. New signals, troughing, and relaid track. Looks to be a serious upgrade. I'm not sure how much traffic actually uses that line, truth be told I was expecting another "NIRU" freight branch, but it must see quite a bit of use to justify that amount of work.

 

[sprinterguy]

It has taken them a while to do it, considering that it has been in the Route Utilisation Stragetgy for a long time. Tyne Dock keeps winning contracts to move stuff, one of the recent ones has been biofuels for somewhere on Teesside.

One thing this does mean is that there is a greater likelihood of Metros using the line and infilling the Brockley Whins - Tyne Dock gap.

I think that would be a long term aspiration though. Whilst the idea of Sunderland to South Shields through Metros appeals to me, especially given the proximity of Brockley Whins to Tyne Dock, any sort of regular service would require the doubling of what has only ever been a single track curve, and upgrading of the track towards Tyne Dock, as given the Tyne and Wear Metros’ “lively” performance when running on rough track, I’d think the ride characteristics over this section of line would be akin to a ship in a storm….Though by Hyrdo's account, it seems that quite a lot of work is already being done. Also, this would require South Shields bound services to cross the Durham Coast up line, putting more pressure on the limited capacity of the route.

It'll be good to see the curve back in use for freight though, the reopening of that section has been talked about and rumoured for years.

 

[142094]

I think that would be a long term aspiration though. Whilst the idea of Sunderland to South Shields through Metros appeals to me, especially given the proximity of Brockley Whins to Tyne Dock, any sort of regular service would require the doubling of what has only ever been a single track curve, and upgrading of the track towards Tyne Dock, as given the Tyne and Wear Metros’ “lively” performance when running on rough track, I’d think the ride characteristics over this section of line would be akin to a ship in a storm….Though by Hyrdo's account, it seems that quite a lot of work is already being done. Also, this would require South Shields bound services to cross the Durham Coast up line, putting more pressure on the limited capacity of the route.

It'll be good to see the curve back in use for freight though, the reopening of that section has been talked about and rumoured for years.

Probably one of the more likely reopenings as it doesn't need too much infratsructure works apart from new stations and electrics. Certainly nothing like tunnelling in the west end of Newcastle. Don't think it will happen anytime soon but possibly could be feasible when the current Metrocars are retired, so more stock could mean it will happen. Also I haven't heard any more info about the new stabling point at South Shields, but again this would make a South Shields - Sunderland link more realistic.

 

[spoony]

Probably one of the more likely reopenings as it doesn't need too much infratsructure works apart from new stations and electrics. Certainly nothing like tunnelling in the west end of Newcastle. Don't think it will happen anytime soon but possibly could be feasible when the current Metrocars are retired, so more stock could mean it will happen. Also I haven't heard any more info about the new stabling point at South Shields, but again this would make a South Shields - Sunderland link more realistic.

To be honest unless it could compete in terms of timing with the current 35 bus route I cant see the benefit of a direct Sunderland - South Shields link. I would love to see it happen though.

 

[142094]

You'd be suprised the amount of people who change at Pelaw for a service to/from South Shields or Sunderland. Plus it is the intermediate stations as well, which would be better served. If you wanted to go from say Tyne Dock to Brockley Whins now you'd probably get a bus, but if the link was there it would open up more possibilities.

Operationally it would be good as you could have a new route to South Shields in case there is a problem between Bede and Pelaw, and also Brockley Whins and Tyne Dock could be used like shuttle stations.

 

[spoony]

You'd be suprised the amount of people who change at Pelaw for a service to/from South Shields or Sunderland. Plus it is the intermediate stations as well, which would be better served. If you wanted to go from say Tyne Dock to Brockley Whins now you'd probably get a bus, but if the link was there it would open up more possibilities.

Operationally it would be good as you could have a new route to South Shields in case there is a problem between Bede and Pelaw, and also Brockley Whins and Tyne Dock could be used like shuttle stations.

I used to get it back from Sunderland to Shields when I lived there after the match occasionally. I lived near Chi station and it was not unknown for me to fall asleep after changing at Pelaw and falling asleep on the Shields line and missing my stop twice. (After a few ales of course) Have actually ended up back at Pelaw on one occasion. The joys of drink So there is a demand, however slight, but does this really justify a new loop in the line?

I also used to travel from Chi to Heworth just so I could change onto a Northern train into Sunderland before the match. This is also quite embarrassing

To address your point though, is there the demand that would justify a Tyne Dock-Brockley Whinns/Boldon/Sunderland service that a bus route would not better serve?

 

[CNX]

What have the last few posts got to do with the Leamside? They are well off route, never mind topic.

 

[ainsworth74]

What have the last few posts got to do with the Leamside? They are well off route, never mind topic.

You must be new here! Going off topic is kind of a pass time round here

 

[spoony]

What have the last few posts got to do with the Leamside? They are well off route, never mind topic.

Not too far off topic as the Boldon Curve is only a mile or so away from the Leamside line. Any diversion south from Tyne Dock could influence traffic on the Leamside line. Also, dont take the place too seriously Its all hypothetical anyway.

 

[CNX]

Not too far off topic as the Boldon Curve is only a mile or so away from the Leamside line. Any diversion south from Tyne Dock could influence traffic on the Leamside line. Also, dont take the place too seriously Its all hypothetical anyway.

I know the Leamside route well, having travelled it god knows how many times. Little chance of it ever seeing a train again. In an ideal world it, Ferryhill-Stockton-Northallerton and Eaglescliffe-Darlington would be electrified as diversionary routes as part of the 7 day railway initiative. No, its not going to happen.

 

[Spaceflower]

Well, if that's the case, it'd make a wicked cycle track!

 

[tbtc]

You must be new here! Going off topic is kind of a pass time round here

I think the windows are too small on Pendolinos. And Voyagers smell of wee. And Rugely Trent Valley really needs... Oops, yeah, I see what you mean, it's hard to stay on topic here sometimes

 

[142094]

To address your point though, is there the demand that would justify a Tyne Dock-Brockley Whinns/Boldon/Sunderland service that a bus route would not better serve?

The one good thing is that it is wholly within Tyne and Wear - looking at other possible line extensions and reopenings, such as Leamside line, ABT and Ponteland, all three would require some sort of input from a council outside of Nexus' remit. It is hard to quantify demand at the minute, but I think there is a good market there - even if it does mean abstraction of passengers from bus services. When we used to go to the airshow at Seaburn, before the Sunderland extension was opened, often we'd go to South Shields and get one of the E1 buses along the coast. Even this took quite a while just to get to Seaburn. Admittedly I'm not sure what the fastest bus is to Sunderland from South Shields at the minute, but I'm sure a Metro between the two would be well used.

 

[Spaceflower]

If there were any further extensions in the Sunderland area, I could see a reel need for a link to South Shields.

 

[Jonny]

The one good thing is that it is wholly within Tyne and Wear - looking at other possible line extensions and reopenings, such as Leamside line, ABT and Ponteland, all three would require some sort of input from a council outside of Nexus' remit. It is hard to quantify demand at the minute, but I think there is a good market there - even if it does mean abstraction of passengers from bus services. When we used to go to the airshow at Seaburn, before the Sunderland extension was opened, often we'd go to South Shields and get one of the E1 buses along the coast. Even this took quite a while just to get to Seaburn. Admittedly I'm not sure what the fastest bus is to Sunderland from South Shields at the minute, but I'm sure a Metro between the two would be well used.

A metro service via Boldon East curve (a realistic extension for Tyne Dock/Port of Tyne freight traffic) and a new link from Sunderland to South Shields (would then also be realistic; there is a free "clear" alignment) would surely be as quick or quicker than an equivalent bus service; the E1 takes the costal route and would be useful for intermediate journeys. Besides, there is no reason why the railways shouldn't compete with bus companies and abstract their flows/revenues.

Oh wait, I forgot, most train companies are also bus companies.

 

[142094]

In the long run Nexus could save itself a lot of money through not having to subsidise some of the bus routes between South Tyneside and Sunderland (same was as they are saving money not paying Northern to run the Newcastle - Sunderland stopping services which were replaced by the Metro). Brockley Whins could become a station much like Shipley in West Yorkshire, with a platform on 3 sides of the triangle. Could give rise to services such as:

South Shields - Tyne Dock - Brockley Whins - Newcastle
South Shields - Tyne Dock - Brockley Whins - Sunderland.

Would increase the frequency for most of the stations on the Sunderland line. Of course this is all hypotetical and I doubt there will be the money for such a reopening in the near future.