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There is a page DMU Operations: London Midland Region Bedford-Hitchin on the .railcar.co.uk site. I can’t do a link, but I got to it round the houses, by going to the Home page, scrolling down the central white section, choosing the Lancaster-Barrow entry under Updates for May 9th and then scrolling down the list at left.
EDIT: There is also a Bedford-Northampton entry in the list at left.
Perhaps tangentially; but does anyone else remember the series on ITV childrens programmes 'The Old Pull and Push"? Around 1961-2 and I think filmed on the Hawkshurst branch. I can't remember much about it apart from the launch in TV Times. The title was presumably chosen to resonate with 'The Old Bull & Bush' but of course LMR motor trains were 'Push & Pull', prominently branded on the coach ends.
Perhaps tangentially; but does anyone else remember the series on ITV childrens programmes 'The Old Pull and Push"? Around 1961-2 and I think filmed on the Hawkshurst branch. I can't remember much about it apart from the launch in TV Times. The title was presumably chosen to resonate with 'The Old Bull & Bush' but of course LMR motor trains were 'Push & Pull', prominently branded on the coach ends.
The Old Pull ‘n Push had two series of six episodes each: the first started on 1 November 1960; the second series was The Return of… Goudhurst seems to have been the main location. Generally little known actors, although Philip Stone and Gerald Harper appeared. Based on the book Danger On The Old Pull ‘N Push by Elisabeth Beresford, who later inflicted the Wombles on the world.
EDIT: Further delving reveals that the book first appeared in 1962, so perhaps Elisabeth Beresford wrote the two series for TV and then produced a book. IMDb lists her as the writer of the two series, but details are sparse as it is very much a lost series.
EDIT II: It does seem likely that she wrote the series and then got a book out of it as she had several previous writer or script TV credits. These programmes may well have been children’s ones, but details are equally sparse.
I think that the SR had motor fitted utility vans so they could be marshalled in the propelled section, pushing the formation over 2. On the LM, when propelling, vans were coupled behind the engine.
I have certainly read that there was limit of 2 vehicles being propelled, and it might have been in an LMR document listing services authorised for P&P working which I have somewhere.
There's an informative article about LMS/LMR P&P in LMS Journal no 12 including photos of three coach formations (of vestibule coaches) without comment unfortunately. Around Northampton, 4 coach P&P was always two coaches each side the loco in the photos. I have.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
The Old Pull ‘n Push had two series of six episodes each: the first started on 1 November 1960; the second series was The Return of… Goudhurst seems to have been the main location. Generally little known actors, although Philip Stone and Gerald Harper appeared. Based on the book Danger On The Old Pull ‘N Push by Elisabeth Beresford, who later inflicted the Wombles on the world.
EDIT: Further delving reveals that the book first appeared in 1962, so perhaps Elisabeth Beresford wrote the two series for TV and then produced a book. IMDb lists her as the writer of the two series, but details are sparse as it is very much a lost series.
EDIT II: It does seem likely that she wrote the series and then got a book out of it as she had several previous writer or script TV credits. These programmes may well have been children’s ones, but details are equally sparse.
Thanks. I clearly remember reading about it in the TV Times but have absolutely no recollection at all of ever watching it. My recollection was that the plot revolved around children (rather than trains), from the photos. illustrating the article, and therefore regarded it as a children's programme. The reason I never watched it might have been because I formed the opinion, from the article, that it was not at all accurate as far as railway operations went.
I think that the SR had motor fitted utility vans so they could be marshalled in the propelled section, pushing the formation over 2. On the LM, when propelling, vans were coupled behind the engine.
I have certainly read that there was limit of 2 vehicles being propelled, and it might have been in an LMR document listing services authorised for P&P working which I have somewhere.
There's an informative article about LMS/LMR P&P in LMS Journal no 12 including photos of three coach formations (of vestibule coaches) without comment unfortunately. Around Northampton, 4 coach P&P was always two coaches each side the loco in the photos. I have.
Five of the former SE&CR PMV, the ones without end doors, were converted by the SR around 1941, but seem to have been replaced by five 1950-built vans in 1962. Known as ‘Pram Vans’, it seems that they were mostly used around the New Forest, particularly on the Old Road via Ringwood.
Sources: Southern Railway Passenger Vans (Gould, Oakwood, 1992) and Castleman’s Corkscrew, Volume Two (Jackson, Oakwood, 2008).
Yes, it seems that the last steam push-pull service was Seaton-Stamford, which served Ketton & Collyweston. This is reported to have lasted until 6 June 1966.
Perhaps tangentially; but does anyone else remember the series on ITV childrens programmes 'The Old Pull and Push"? Around 1961-2 and I think filmed on the Hawkshurst branch. I can't remember much about it apart from the launch in TV Times. The title was presumably chosen to resonate with 'The Old Bull & Bush' but of course LMR motor trains were 'Push & Pull', prominently branded on the coach ends.
I’ve found a reasonably informative web page here on the series. Hope link works. I can’t copy and paste full content from my phone but it confirms plot with a bit of detail as mentioned plus actors and location.
Some minor railway related errors.
I wonder if recordings still survive? It’s well within the era of lost or wiped material I suspect.
Otherwise it looks ripe for Talking Pictures tv ‘s superb content screenings.
I’ve found a reasonably informative web page here on the series. Hope link works. I can’t copy and paste full content from my phone but it confirms plot with a bit of detail as mentioned plus actors and location.
Some minor railway related errors.
I wonder if recordings still survive? It’s well within the era of lost or wiped material I suspect.
Otherwise it looks ripe for Talking Pictures tv ‘s superb content screenings.
IMDb says that the first series is lost and the second is believed to be lost. As it was a children’s series and before TV enthusiasts began seriously recording shows, I think that the chances of anything surviving are zero.
The Chesham branch shuttle, pre electrification, was another three coach push-pull operation - interesting point is that the coaches (cars?) were LPTB/LT (originally steam hauled, then converted to EMUs, converted again for steam p-p), the locos LNER/BR...
First 33 + TC trials were July 1965, with regular operation (Oxted line with 6TC set) from Jan 1966 (source: Wikipedia)
Then you have the issue over differentiating MU and PP operations: going way back, various steam railcars did work with 'driving trailers'; later there were what bacame the class 121 & 122 bubble cars, and their associated driving trailers (classes 149 and 150) - these were all seperate single units, not MU sets. So PP operations? Aside: did class 128 (DMLV/DMPMV) ever work with the loose class 149/150 driving trailers?
I'm not sure it was P&P - I think it was operated at the end by a BR Standard Cl 4 2-6-4T from photos.
I don't recall any ex CR or LMS Northern Division indigenous locos being fitted with VCR, but a few ex LNWR VCR fitted tanks went there. I think the LNER lines had ex NB 4-4-2Ts fitted for P&P, although I'm not sure of the system.
The Killin branch was operated by normal hauled trains, but with a peculiarity. It was possible to run round at Killin Junction and at the old Loch Tay terminus, if the loco coal wagon wasn’t occupying the loop, but there was no runround at Killin. After the train had reached Killin, the loco uncoupled, moved forward and then ran back into the sidings, all of which faced Loch Tay. The coach was then run by gravity past the yard points, after which the loco came out of the siding and coupled up to what had been the rear of the coach on the way to Killin, before hauling it into the station.
When was the Gloucester-Chalford auto-train service in the Golden Valley withdrawn? IIRC, it was the last steam-worked push-pull service on the Western Region, using class 1400 0-4-2 tank locos.
When was the Gloucester-Chalford auto-train service in the Golden Valley withdrawn? IIRC, it was the last steam-worked push-pull service on the Western Region, using class 1400 0-4-2 tank locos.
IMDb says that the first series is lost and the second is believed to be lost. As it was a children’s series and before TV enthusiasts began seriously recording shows, I think that the chances of anything surviving are zero.
I assume there is decent enthusiast film if the Hawkhurst branch to view however.
I used to regularly drive through the town when I lived in the area.
I should try and seek some out.
IMDb says that the first series is lost and the second is believed to be lost. As it was a children’s series and before TV enthusiasts began seriously recording shows, I think that the chances of anything surviving are zero.
Unlikely as it sounds, old TV series from before the recording era do continue to occasionally turn up. The technical production staff had the tools to do so, sometimes onto cine film, and unofficially would take recordings home and keep them to show prospective future employers in a job interview. Stored in the attic long term and forgotten, they come to light in house moves or are found by future family generations. The playback equipment is no longer on the general market but there are specialist media historians who can convert them - bit like us lot really!
No, Monday (2nd November 1964) was deemed to be the official day of closure of the line. Last passenger train service ran on the Saturday (31st October 1964).
Well, in that case, surely the 14xx Chalford workings were the last PP steam worked trains in GB then?
I remember seeing two x 14xx tanks on Worcester shed (or possibly works) in August 1965. Were these the last locos of the Chalford workings? And why were they still being kept so late without being cut up? Possibly beeing saved for preservation, perhaps?
I’ve found a reasonably informative web page here on the series. Hope link works. I can’t copy and paste full content from my phone but it confirms plot with a bit of detail as mentioned plus actors and location.
Some minor railway related errors.
I wonder if recordings still survive? It’s well within the era of lost or wiped material I suspect.
Otherwise it looks ripe for Talking Pictures tv ‘s superb content screenings.
Well, in that case, surely the 14xx Chalford workings were the last PP steam worked trains in GB then?
I remember seeing two x 14xx tanks on Worcester shed (or possibly works) in August 1965. Were these the last locos of the Chalford workings? And why were they still being kept so late without being cut up? Possibly beeing saved for preservation, perhaps?
All the 14XX had been withdrawn by the end of 1964 except for 1442 and 1450 which were withdrawn from Exmouth Junction in April or May 1965. However, they and other locos had probably been in store for a while.
All the 14XX had been withdrawn by the end of 1964 except for 1442 and 1450 which were withdrawn from Exmouth Junction in April or May 1965. However, they and other locos had probably been in store for a while.
The Hawkhurst branch closed to all traffic on 12 June 1961.
Thanks for confirming with accuracy.
I’d wondered if tv crew had Astro the branch after closure for the push pull series, but transmission dates would suggest not, nor would have been required.
What I can remember about the TV Times article and possibly the programme itself is that an 'H' tank, apparently in steam, was prominent - for what it's worth.
Thanks for confirming with accuracy.
I’d wondered if tv crew had Astro the branch after closure for the push pull series, but transmission dates would suggest not, nor would have been required.
The transmission dates for the second series appear to be May 9 to June 13 1962, so the last episode about saving a railway came out a couple of days after it had closed.
What I can remember about the TV Times article and possibly the programme itself is that an 'H' tank, apparently in steam, was prominent - for what it's worth.
The PP service between St. Helens Shaw Street, Earlestown & Warrington was converted to dmu operation in January 1961. But St. Helens retained a 2 coach push-pull set as spare and it saw occasional use to cover dmu shortages in the next few years. Its last use - with 41286, was two farewell railtours in February 1966.
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