The future of Class 315 units?

[Andrew1395]

Stick a 315 on the St Albans Abbey branch. I am surprised no one has suggested sticking a diesel generator on them and sending them "up norf"

 

[jon0844]

Can't you take the coach with the pantograph and insert it within a 442 somewhere? Now you've got the ultimate go anywhere train to last another 50 years.

 

[najaB]

Can't you take the coach with the pantograph and insert it within a 442 somewhere? Now you've got the ultimate go anywhere train to last another 50 years.

That idea is like farting in an lift - wrong on so many levels.

 

[D365]

That idea is like farting in an lift - wrong on so many levels.

I'm not sure it was intended as a bona fide 'idea'.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Are they compatible in service with 314s or could they only ever couple to a 314 for rescue purposes?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Are they compatible in service with 314s or could they only ever couple to a 314 for rescue purposes?

According to the Combined Volume, it is "multiple working" which implies full compatibility.

 

[D365]

Why Class 314 in particular? I believe that on occasion, Class 313 and 315 units will have worked alongside each other on services originating from Liverpool Street, or indeed stopping at Stratford.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I have no idea, but 313s are listed as multiple working within class only.

 

[najaB]

I'm not sure it was intended as a bona fide 'idea'.

Figured as much. But then, you never know where 442s are concerned.

 

[anti-pacer]

Stick a 315 on the St Albans Abbey branch. I am surprised no one has suggested sticking a diesel generator on them and sending them "up norf"

I'm sure the DfT will think of that idea. After all, we're getting *some* new stock, so that should keep us peasants grateful for a while. Grateful enough to take the South's redundant trains.

 

[najaB]

Grateful enough to take the South's redundant trains.

St Albans *is* in the South!

 

[gnolife]

St Albans *is* in the South!

But Wakefield (where anti-pacer is from) isn't, unless you're considering North and South relative to the Scottish border!

 

[jon0844]

I'm not sure it was intended as a bona fide 'idea'.

I hadn't even begun on the suggestion of re-using Pacer seating post 2020.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Why Class 314 in particular? I believe that on occasion, Class 313 and 315 units will have worked alongside each other on services originating from Liverpool Street, or indeed stopping at Stratford.

That's a point, I forgot about the 313s. They could be offered to either (or both) Southern and ScotRail to use to either boost capacity on existing and/or run extra services.

 

[christopher]

I wouldn't complain about getting the 315s, After the work TfL have done on them they are very nice units again now!

 

[43096]

That's a point, I forgot about the 313s. They could be offered to either (or both) Southern and ScotRail to use to either boost capacity on existing and/or run extra services.

You must have missed all the 385s being built for ScotRail, including replacing Class 314.

Or is this just the usual "railway forum detached from reality" type stuff?

 

[D365]

Or is this just the usual "railway forum detached from reality" type stuff?

It's the "Andrew Gwilt effect", he keeps offering 'his' ex-Greater Anglia units to TOCs such as Northern and ScotRail, despite the fact that both are ordering new stock.

 

[fredk]

The 315 is at life end mechanically, electrically & maybe structurally, hence for scrap.

With all the other spare units around all of the 313,314,315,507,508 are for scrap.

That is scrap, not DeMUs, for HS2 or to make 442s dual voltage!

I think you are on to something there... Class 315s would be perfect on hs2

 

[Class 170101]

That's a point, I forgot about the 313s. They could be offered to either (or both) Southern and ScotRail to use to either boost capacity on existing and/or run extra services.

315s have no 3rd Rail kit so are useless on Southern.

 

[Class455]

I would think the most likely place for these trains is the scrap heap unfortunately. I was on 315 832 today and the new moquette fitted upon refurb makes it look very dated, but they've done quite a good job with the lighting. But at 40 years old, and with younger stock becoming available, I can't see any place where the 315's could go after they are withdrawn.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

How likely is it that all the 31x classes will be scrapped within the next 5 years?

 

[HSTEd]

Do Class 315s have a ~750Vdc busbar through the carriages to power the motor vehicles.

In other words are they just 313s without the controls for operating on third rail power?
How (theoretically) expensive would it be to rebuild them into dual voltage units?

 

[edwin_m]

Do Class 315s have a ~750Vdc busbar through the carriages to power the motor vehicles.

In other words are they just 313s without the controls for operating on third rail power?
How (theoretically) expensive would it be to rebuild them into dual voltage units?

They must have some sort of bus because the motors are in a different car from the transformer. However the traction electronics is designed for AC only (phase angle control) so would need replacing with something that would work on DC.

 

[HSTEd]

They must have some sort of bus because the motors are in a different car from the transformer. However the traction electronics is designed for AC only (phase angle control) so would need replacing with something that would work on DC.

Isn't that someone strange? That would mean they would have entirely different electrics in them than the 313s and 508s - which seems an odd set of choices.

 

[317666]

How likely is it that all the 31x classes will be scrapped within the next 5 years?

Not very likely, given the amount of 319s finding work!

 

[D365]

Deleted.

 

[apk55]

Isn't that someone strange? That would mean they would have entirely different electrics in them than the 313s and 508s - which seems an odd set of choices.

At the time the units were conceived electronic control from a DC supply was still in the experimental stages. Therefore BR chose the the well tried and tested system of switched resistances by a camshaft and series parallel switching of the motors. It was not until the late 1980s when traction sized Gate Turn Off Thyristors became available that electronic on a DC system became a practical option.Now even these have been by IGBTs.

However at the time phase angle control had just become possible and the class 314/315 were the first fleet units to use electronic control rater than a tapped transformer and mechanical contacts to select the motor voltage

 

[Mordac]

Do Class 315s have a ~750Vdc busbar through the carriages to power the motor vehicles.

In other words are they just 313s without the controls for operating on third rail power?
How (theoretically) expensive would it be to rebuild them into dual voltage units?

Why would anyone want to do something like that?? Send these tins cans to Booths asap please.

 

[43074]

How likely is it that all the 31x classes will be scrapped within the next 5 years?

Do you mean the 317s/318s and 319s or the PEP inspired units? (313/314 and 315)?

I reckon it's very likely most of the PEP based units will be scrapped, same for most of the 317s, the 318s are secure until at least the next Scotrail franchise, I wouldn't even be surprised if a few of the 319s were scrapped just because of the sheer number of them (and other/newer EMUs) that will be available. Having said that I would like to see one or two examples of each class preserved though, at the very least.

The government seem to have gone off electrification, claiming bi-modes or other new trains can deliver the same benefits, so it's unlikely any extra electrification will be carried out to find homes for even a small number of the displaced units, and Welsh Valleys electrification appears not to be progressing, but that's more a Welsh Assembly issue.