The Coaliton & The Cuts

[strange6]

You can only claim housing benefit for rent, not mortage.

You're correct. Don't know why I wrote that

 

[Zoe]

There is also the issue that most landlords refuse to rent to anyone claiming housing benefit.

 

[Geezertronic]

There is also the issue that most landlords refuse to rent to anyone claiming housing benefit.

In some cases, this is a clause of their buy to let mortgage if they have one

 

[WatcherZero]

You're absolutely correct in what you say. Having said that, you would still be able to claim for certain benefits, like housing benefit (full or part-of your rent / mortgage), if you worked 40 hours on the minimum wage. Don't know what the exact numbers are though

17 hours give or take depending on circumstances. Its why they need to reform it so that work pays and cutting benefits across the board isnt the only way, its why the lib dems target of £10k before tax would really help real people.

 

[142094]

There is also the issue that most landlords refuse to rent to anyone claiming housing benefit.

I do like the way the ads in the papers say "No DSS". Wonder if anyone has challenged them seeing as the DSS name disappeared ages ago?

 

[Zoe]

I don't quite know how they get away with having this policy at all. Some people are unable to work due to disability and are unfairly discriminated against.

 

[142094]

Probably because no-one challenges them. Nothing new. One of the student lettings agents here had an 'informal' rule that no foreign peeople could live in their houses. They are still trading.

 

[strange6]

I don't quite know how they get away with having this policy at all. Some people are unable to work due to disability and are unfairly discriminated against.

I agree with you. people should be treated and interviewed equally, no matter what their personal circumstances. There are quite a few people I know who have highly paid jobs who I find obnoxious and who I certainly wouldn't trust living in a house of mine whatsoever

 

[Zoe]

Out of the few landlords that do accept benefit many won't rent to under 25s. This is due to a governent rule first introudced by the Tories and later continued by New Labour restricting the amount of benefit paid to that of a single room in a shared house.

 

[SS4]

Out of the few landlords that do accept benefit many won't rent to under 25s. This is due to a governent rule first introudced by the Tories and later continued by New Labour restricting the amount of benefit paid to that of a single room in a shared house.

That is true, I've never understood how they've managed to get away with what is essentially age discrimination, especially since for many means tested benefits the rate is defined as the minimum income the law says you need to live on

Imagine telling over 80s that their pension will be reduced by 20% simply because they're over 80

 

[HST Power]

On the good side of things, Osborne has just cut tax! So we will save 1p on petrol, plus 2% more!

 

[Metroland]

In order to simply exist, Labour have to have an underclass that will support them.

The Conservative ethos is for people to develop and look after themselves rather than rely on the State providing.

Rather simplistic. The Conservative party don't, for example, support the abolition of the NHS, which is a fairly socialist notion and created by the Labour party. Even if you are not dependent on state benefits, you may as a private individual look toward the government to enact regulation to protect you from unscrupulous employers or companies.

Conservative, Lib-dem and Labour parties all support mixed economies, in recognition that the state does some things well, and the citizen can do other things better. Therefore, from an ideological point of view there is not much between them these days. Indeed, it is people in the fringe constituencies that decide elections, not 'the underclass' in inner city areas or well-healed folk in the shires.

 

[Tom B]

That is true, I've never understood how they've managed to get away with what is essentially age discrimination, especially since for many means tested benefits the rate is defined as the minimum income the law says you need to live on

Imagine telling over 80s that their pension will be reduced by 20% simply because they're over 80

Unfortunately it appears that you can give people less if they're young and it's ok - give people less if they're old and there's a rawkus and the politicians quickly backtrack. Apparently it's ok for an under 25 to have a room in a shared house, but an over-25, or an under-25 who is in a relationship, needs a private house of their own! Logic?

 

[Old Timer]

Rather simplistic. The Conservative party don't, for example, support the abolition of the NHS, which is a fairly socialist notion and created by the Labour party. Even if you are not dependent on state benefits, you may as a private individual look toward the government to enact regulation to protect you from unscrupulous employers or companies.

Conservative, Lib-dem and Labour parties all support mixed economies, in recognition that the state does some things well, and the citizen can do other things better. Therefore, from an ideological point of view there is not much between them these days. Indeed, it is people in the fringe constituencies that decide elections, not 'the underclass' in inner city areas or well-healed folk in the shires.

A fair point to a degree. With regards to the NHS, this was developed during the War under the Coalition Government, and it was simply that Labour were lucky enough to have been in power immediately after the War. It was inevitable that the NHS would have been introduced no matter who was in power. Unfortunately Labour have historically claimed credit for something they never developed, but simply by fortune implemented.

An interesting aside is that the NHS was never intended to be the "all things to all people" that it has become. The clue is in the words "National Insurance Contribution".

There was a very interesting interview with Stephen Dorrell (former Labour Health Minister) on BBC radio 4 Today programme yesterday morning (which is available via "Listen Again", and for which I give him credit for being honest in his comments about the changes and reduction in investment in the NHS, which were far more constructive and pragmatic than the rubbish being spouted by the current Shadow Cabinet. I have actually revised my opinion of the man on the basis of that interview.

 

[WatcherZero]

The NHS was indeed in all three parties Manifestos though many Conservative MP's campaigned against it led by Clement Attlee who lost his seat. The Conservatives wanted it to be primarily a maternity service with some public research at university hospitals and a network of independant voluntary hospitals to provide free healthcare to those who couldnt afford private healthcare and staffed by doctors who would split their time between private and public work (like todays dentists).

 

[SS4]

Unfortunately it appears that you can give people less if they're young and it's ok - give people less if they're old and there's a rawkus and the politicians quickly backtrack. Apparently it's ok for an under 25 to have a room in a shared house, but an over-25, or an under-25 who is in a relationship, needs a private house of their own! Logic?

If there was a lower rate of NI or Income Tax that would be difference. From what I remember from working at the DWP it's because under 25s are assumed to be living in someone else's house.

 

[Zoe]

many Conservative MP's campaigned against it led by Clement Attlee who lost his seat.

Clement Attlee was the Labour prime minister that introduced the NHS.
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If there was a lower rate of NI or Income Tax that would be difference. From what I remember from working at the DWP it's because under 25s are assumed to be living in someone else's house.

That may well be the case for JSA/income support but if you are claiming housing beneift then you are obviously renting from someone.

 

[SS4]

Clement Attlee was the Labour prime minister that introduced the NHS.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That may well be the case for JSA/income support but if you are claiming housing beneift then you are obviously renting from someone.

True, what's more Osbourne wants the single room rate until 35

 

[Zoe]

True, what's more Osbourne wants the single room rate until 35

It was orignally proposed to be extended to all under 60s.

 

[DarloRich]

If there are no cuts why don’t you all come with me to the area of the country that I am proud to come from - the North East.

People are always amazed that, say, 10,000 people work for the council in Gateshead or Stockton. Why do you think this is? Could it be that there are no other jobs available? Get on your bike and look for work. Well you can pedal all day but if there is no work what do you do? But hey, it will be ok because we are going to have a private sector lead recovery. Bo**ocks. If you reduce the “state” by 50% what do you do with the 5000 people put out of work in one town? How do you support the supplier business that begins to struggle? How do you support the community through the hard times? How do you support those out of work? How do you assist them back into employment? Where is the development money? How do you support regeneration when you do away with One North East (the Regional Development Agency) Where are the incentives to start new business? How do you get private industry to invest in Britain let alone the NE? How are jobs going to be created to replace the public sector ones? How do you support the migration of the work force to other areas? How do you support those left behind? How do you support the young or the old or the infirm? Apparently this isn’t the job of the coalition! Well who is responsible for it? There is no plan other than cut.

We in the North East haven’t forgotten what Conservatives will do to you if they hate you, or you make them look stupid once to often, or you stand up against them or you stand up for your rights or the rights of your colleagues. We know that they will destroy entire industries even entire towns IF it suits their dogmatic approach. They will do this and leave nothing behind.

Despite everything done to us, and other terrible Northern/Scottish/Welsh sh*t holes that most Conservative (and a few labour) people could find on a map we are still here and still hanging on. Just.

I would like to ask all the people who attack those on benefits if they have had to survive on benefits. I wonder how many have. I have been on benefits. It is hard and demoralising when no matter how hard you try to find work there are few if any jobs out there. No doubt that is my fault. Of course there are scroungers and cheats, just as there are cheats in business and in the city. They need to be hunted out and punished. Hard.

However, what particularly annoys me is the sanctimonious "I am all right Jack" conservative approach to everything. You are poor, sorry it is your own fault – you should work harder. You are ill, well get yourself well. You are unfit for work; you are therefore scrounging scum who should starve and/or be shot. I have health insurance so can afford decent treatment, you can’t, tough! I can afford a big car and a big house and nice holidays therefore I am better than you.

(Some of us have had to come down south and show the cockneys how to do their jobs and what hard work is! And I can’t get a decent pint or a parmo!)

BTW – we have never had it so good and we are all in this together!

 

[SS4]

If there are no cuts why don’t you all come with me to the area of the country that I am proud to come from - the North East.

People are always amazed that, say, 10,000 people work for the council in Gateshead or Stockton. Why do you think this is? Could it be that there are no other jobs available? Get on your bike and look for work. Well you can pedal all day but if there is no work what do you do? But hey, it will be ok because we are going to have a private sector lead recovery. Bo**ocks. If you reduce the “state” by 50% what do you do with the 5000 people put out of work in one town? How do you support the supplier business that begins to struggle? How do you support the community through the hard times? How do you support those out of work? How do you assist them back into employment? Where is the development money? How do you support regeneration when you do away with One North East (the Regional Development Agency) Where are the incentives to start new business? How do you get private industry to invest in Britain let alone the NE? How are jobs going to be created to replace the public sector ones? How do you support the migration of the work force to other areas? How do you support those left behind? How do you support the young or the old or the infirm? Apparently this isn’t the job of the coalition! Well who is responsible for it? There is no plan other than cut.

We in the North East haven’t forgotten what Conservatives will do to you if they hate you, or you make them look stupid once to often, or you stand up against them or you stand up for your rights or the rights of your colleagues. We know that they will destroy entire industries even entire towns IF it suits their dogmatic approach. They will do this and leave nothing behind.

Despite everything done to us, and other terrible Northern/Scottish/Welsh sh*t holes that most Conservative (and a few labour) people could find on a map we are still here and still hanging on. Just.

I would like to ask all the people who attack those on benefits if they have had to survive on benefits. I wonder how many have. I have been on benefits. It is hard and demoralising when no matter how hard you try to find work there are few if any jobs out there. No doubt that is my fault. Of course there are scroungers and cheats, just as there are cheats in business and in the city. They need to be hunted out and punished. Hard.

However, what particularly annoys me is the sanctimonious "I am all right Jack" conservative approach to everything. You are poor, sorry it is your own fault – you should work harder. You are ill, well get yourself well. You are unfit for work; you are therefore scrounging scum who should starve and/or be shot. I have health insurance so can afford decent treatment, you can’t, tough! I can afford a big car and a big house and nice holidays therefore I am better than you.

(Some of us have had to come down south and show the cockneys how to do their jobs and what hard work is! And I can’t get a decent pint or a parmo!)

BTW – we have never had it so good and we are all in this together!

A round of applause for that man!

 

[Zoe]

However, what particularly annoys me is the sanctimonious "I am all right Jack" conservative approach to everything. You are poor, sorry it is your own fault – you should work harder. You are ill, well get yourself well. You are unfit for work; you are therefore scrounging scum who should starve and/or be shot. I have health insurance so can afford decent treatment, you can’t, tough! I can afford a big car and a big house and nice holidays therefore I am better than you.

Too many people believe everything they read in the Daily Mail.

 

[ainsworth74]

And I can’t get a decent pint or a parmo!

Apologies for the thread jack but now I really want a parmo and can't get one! Thanks for that DarloRich :roll:

 

[passmore]

If you're poor, its the fault of successive states failing to help you get out of poverty: poverty is a lifestyle that a lot of people who are then referred to as 'poor' do not get into by choice. If you have to tell these people to 'get off their backsides and find work', you have to have the means there to do so.
It's the same at the opposite end of the spectrum. If we want the rich people to stop getting richer , we have to have the means necessary for them to stop receiving bonuses and to receive fairer salaries.
It would be nice if these people who are unable to feel pity for the poor could realise that.

 

[me123]

The businesses doing this should be named and shamed. It happens a LOT in media now, with people expected to work for free to get experience and the promise of a job - or build an impressive CV.

Of course, the job probably doesn't exist.

Secondly, if I saw the CV of someone who had worked all over for free, I'd see them as being a bit of a mug.

The best bit is that, since it's the media that's doing it, the truth behind this stays hidden. It's usually the media that seeks out stories like these, but with them doing it, it probably won't get the exposure it deserves.

Imagine if a politician were to be caught doing this; (s)he'd be front page news!

 

[Zoe]

If you're poor, its the fault of successive states failing to help you get out of poverty: poverty is a lifestyle that a lot of people who are then referred to as 'poor' do not get into by choice. If you have to tell these people to 'get off their backsides and find work', you have to have the means there to do so.

Their argument would be that you go down the job centre and take the first job you see. If it doesn't pay enough then take two jobs, take three jobs. This is certainly not my personal opinion though.

 

[SS4]

The best bit is that, since it's the media that's doing it, the truth behind this stays hidden. It's usually the media that seeks out stories like these, but with them doing it, it probably won't get the exposure it deserves.

Imagine if a politician were to be caught doing this; (s)he'd be front page news!

Exactly, they make out they're whiter than everyone and have a moral duty to shame people (of course it just happens to make them a lot of money!).
In reality it's relatively skilful propaganda judging by the amount of people sucked in.

If anyone is going to watch the news this evening pay particular attention to Libya and watch how one-sided it is.


edit: it's this sort of behaviour that makes Murdoch a dangerous man, with that much power over the media it is very easy to manipulate people, much the same applies for the BBC but IIRC the BBC are ultimately accountable to the government)

 

[Zoe]

If anyone is going to watch the news this evening pay particular attention to Libya and watch how one-sided it is.

If you are in Great Britain you have a choice of either a government owned news channel or a Murdoch owned news channel. If you want a different view on things then you may want to watch Al-Jazeera or Russia Today.

 

[jon0844]

The best bit is that, since it's the media that's doing it, the truth behind this stays hidden. It's usually the media that seeks out stories like these, but with them doing it, it probably won't get the exposure it deserves. Imagine if a politician were to be caught doing this; (s)he'd be front page news!

That's a very good point, and I believe to be very true - given how it happens in the TV media and print (albeit more with the local newspapers).

Then there are the many websites which are run by people who don't even want to get paid, just get the 'fame' until they get bored and give up - despite helping to kill off the jobs from proper journalists they're competing with!!

 

[WatcherZero]

Clement Attlee was the Labour prime minister that introduced the NHS.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That may well be the case for JSA/income support but if you are claiming housing beneift then you are obviously renting from someone.

Whoops, wonder who I was thinking of then, Conservative MP who led the opposition to the NHS and Attlee popped into my head for some reason.