Agreed - and that is what makes up a large portion of the House of Lords. The debates in the Upper Chamber are always much better informed, and less along party lines, and it tends to be the jumped-up ex-MPs who spoil them. This, IMHO, is why the Commons are so keen on Lords reform, and why elections to the Lords along party lines as in the Commons would be a disaster.
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The Alternative Vote (AV)
- Thread starter HST Power
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Wyvern
Established Member
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Just a thought.
If we made a list of MPs in safe seats
And a list of MPs supporting the No campaign
What sort of correlation would there be?
If we made a list of MPs in safe seats
And a list of MPs supporting the No campaign
What sort of correlation would there be?
I think we can safely say that the MP's against AV will largely be in safe seats. Not in all cases, though. All depends on the tendencies of the area.
gordonthemoron
Established Member
postal vote arrived yesterday. Will wait to (free)post in UK when I'm back at the end of the month as it'll cost €3 to post from germany
I'm not voting, I'm too young :P
SS4
Established Member
I know the pain, I was just about too young to vote in 2005. ****ed me off no end since I knew a lot more than those who were eligible
I've just got to keep my white card safe. Labour winning is a dead cert but I can still make a difference on the referendum.
Question: For those who are participating in local elections how much have you heard about them? Even on local news I've heard nothing (yet Midlands today still reported the Glasgow Celtic bombs and last I checked Glasgow was not in the English Midlands)
But if you could vote?
No maybe?? I'm not fond of the lib dems. My choice may also be influenced by the fact that the whole of my area (Wychavon district and south Worcestershire) is deeply conservative. My district's MP won by nearly 60%
It's the same in my area. The local Conservative won 52% at the last election. The Lib Dems were second with 32%.
Go on, let yourself be influenced, vote Conservative!
It's the same in my area. The local Conservative won 52% at the last election. The Lib Dems were second with 32%.
Go on, let yourself be influenced, vote Conservative!
Not much to be honest. I've had nothing from Lib Dems, Conservatives or the Independent (and I've now had my postal vote delivered!). Labour have so far sent a flyer and a letter. I actually responded to their letter (mostly because they irritated me by filling it with distortion and political none-speak) and now they want to come visit me to have a chat at some point about my letter! So plenty of contact from Labour but nothing from anyone else and nothing in any local papers or tv news.
Received a Labour leaflet the other day. Was appalled by some of the things they had written. Emailed the councillor who sent it, and I'll be honest, I gave him an ear bashing. He hasn't replied. I'm not suprised. :roll:
SS4
Established Member
I'm yet to receive anything from any party which is unusual although we are only voting in a third so there will be no overall control and the current Conservative/Lib Dem coalition will continue (sound familiar )
)What has any of that got to do with voting on AV? It is not a party-line issue.
Well some parties support it, others are against. I suppose it just flowed into the topic.
313103
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Well no doubt the tories wont be writing things that are appaling will they? If and when i get my tories issue on AV i will post and see if it is the Prime Ministers view which incredibly is for you to vote NO! or will my local Tories offer a different view to the premier. I mean the tories are a little bit like Arsenal in my area they always finish third!
Where the parties finish differs by area. They all have strong holds, areas which come close and areas that they lose by miles. William Hague probably wins by miles in Richmond, but Ed Miliband probably wins by miles in Doncaster.
SS4
Established Member
Parachuting is definitely one of the worst effects of our voting system and makes a mockery of tying an MP to it's constituents. Can't see it going away on AV though since those parachuted in are where there is already a majority of voters
Aictos
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My local conservatives are certainly in the No for AV camp with wild accusations on why AV is not a good idea - most of it has already been discussed here and as far as I am concerned is a load of claptrap which of course I don't agree with them at all even though I vote Blue.
I don't often agree with Nick Clegg, but I did today when I read he'd criticised the amount of mudslinging going on with regard to the AV referendum. The amount of dirty politics that goes on is beyond a joke! Labour and the Tories are as bad as each other on this, and it's pathetic.
Some of the campaigns are really pathetic. Going back to the referenum, "No" claim that AV's bad because Nick Clegg supports it. "Yes" claim that AV's good because Nick Griffin opposes it... I mean, come on. Anyone who shapes their view based on doing the opposite of what someone else does is either very pathetic or a hormonal teenager. Sadly/thankfully, not many hormonal teenagers are old enough to vote.
Seacook
Member
I am not surprised either. If you were a candidate during an election campaign would you spend your time trying to convince a undecided voter or someone who is never going to vote for you whatever you say?
Would it surprise you to discover that during a general election parties concentrate on winnable seats and invest no real time or money in safe seats, whether their own or another's?
If you are really concerned about receiving a response from a party you do not support perhaps you might consider a change in the method of counting votes that encourages wider appeal by making sure that the winner must have a majority of the votes cast. Does such a system exist?
Actually, I cannot think of a reputable party that has an official "line". This does not stop Labour supporters of AV to use the "It'd stop the Tories" line, of course (and perhaps I just haven't
seen the opposite approach). I just hope that enough people actually consider what is being voted on (for once) and don't just follow some perceived tribal policy.
Well I had a reply today. For the record, I work with MP's and councillors on a day to day basis and they are expected to reply to all emails from their constituents regardless of what the voter is saying. If a candidate fails to reply when good points are indicated they can be seen as weak. As I am orchestrating the Conservative campaign for the local area, I would've been able to take advantage of the fact that he hadn't replied.
I work in Parliament and as far as my party are concerned, this is utter nonsense. Did you not hear about the Barnsley East Elections that took place after their MP resigned for bogus expenses claims? It was a Labour strong hold, but William Hague, Sayeedi Warsi and various high up figures were down there fighting for the votes. We came in third. The Lib Dems were sixth.
We fought, and considering it was a renowned Labour area, we got a fair result. Parties cannot afford to merely concentrate on the safe seats.
I do not support AV. End of. And how is supporting it going to get me a reply?
Seacook
Member
A candidate does not have any constituents. And I infer from your comment about "taking advantage" of his not replying that your email was not intended to be serious but merely had nuisance value.
Someone who works in Parliament really should learn the difference between a general election, that I was talking about, and a by-election, where a concentrate-on-the-marginals policy is inapplicable.
You misread my post. I did not say that political parties conentrated on safe seats. Quite the reverse, I said that safe seats were almost ignored in favour of constituencies that are "winnable", that is where more than one party is in the running. This is an entirely rational strategy - perhaps the only rational strategy - and I cannot see why you deny that the Conservative party follow it.
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Added:
I checked the Barnsley Central by-election result. The efforts of William Hague et al resulted in a reduction in the Conservative vote of more than two thirds (from over 6,000 in the general election to under 2,000). There was a reduced turnout, but it still represents a halving of the vote in proportion. Draw your own conclusions about the effectiveness of the campaigning.
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SS4
Established Member
FPTP: Where even if you fail you can win - so long as everyone else fails harder.
Safe seats are ignored, I know this from experience
Safe seats are ignored, I know this from experience
Ivo
Established Member
Thought it would be worth bringing this back to the fore given the count is underway. According to MSN:
"The No camp has won all of the first 100 areas to declare referendum results. There are 440 areas in total."
"The No camp has won all of the first 100 areas to declare referendum results. There are 440 areas in total."
SS4
Established Member
A sad day for democracy
Whatever the result I hope the no campaign is brought to account for the lies and misinformation they put out
From the party who brought you NHS cuts in all but name
ie: vote no on AV or millions of babies will DIE
They're coming in quickly now. At the time of writing, the 'No to AV' campaign are on course for a massive victory, and all things considered, the Conservatives have done fairly well.
The SNP will also be celebrating tonight, but there's another thread for that!
I'm curious to know how things have panned out in other members towns. Have you had a change in the vote, or have things remained the same?
The SNP will also be celebrating tonight, but there's another thread for that!
I'm curious to know how things have panned out in other members towns. Have you had a change in the vote, or have things remained the same?
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