Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[700007]

There is a solution to the villages though and not one that will be popular but will mean a better service ....

Just run a shuttle between Royston and Cambridge North as a 4 car every 30 mins connecting with services at Royston and Cambridge for London that way you don't need to extend the platforms and you don't need to subject the villages with 8 or 12 car trains indeed it be a good place for the Class 313s to go...

Their paths south of Royston use them for other services, jobs a good un

As to Moorgate in the peaks there should be a system of stepping up drivers like London Underground uses at Elephant and Castle, City and Waterloo etc

As to delays regarding drivers not being where they're meant to be, someone somewhere isn't doing their job properly as this is something I would have would have thought should have been picked up earlier then they have been, for a train to arrive at a station for a booked crew change and no relief is there is unthinkable.

It isn't actually a bad idea, and I think you do have valid points on all fronts for that as a short term solution.

 

[Hitchincommute]

On Southern it was 3 years after the emergency timetable was imposed before they reinstated our missing trains.

That is a bit concerning. In theory Hitchin is to have a turn up and go service every 15 minutes from Finsbury Park. On a weekday there is now a 49 minute arrival gap from 1619 to 1708. The 1601 stopper is missing as is the 1624 fast. I assume at some stage there would also be a 1612 to Cambridge. So I understand I won’t be able to claim Delay Repay from the missing 1601 which I would catch to Hitchin to arrive 1643 which now means I arrive at 1708 every day. Working hours mean I can’t usually make the 1554 which would get me back at 1619. How do they decide which trains to reintroduce if they ever get round to it?

 

[OwenB]

I have to go from Hatfield to Stevenage and back this afternoon on important business (football). I'm getting the bus.

 

[sefton]

As to delays regarding drivers not being where they're meant to be, someone somewhere isn't doing their job properly as this is something I would have would have thought should have been picked up earlier then they have been, for a train to arrive at a station for a booked crew change and no relief is there is unthinkable.

It is rather staggering incompetence not knowing where your staff are.

GTR knew the changeover driver for yesterday's 13:55 Horsham to Peterborough service was not at Finsbury Park when the train left St Pancras (or I would damn well hope there is a system so they knew), so they knew they would have a delay to that train and to all the following trains. However did they bother to tell any of their customers? Nope.

However from the limited information being given out at Finsbury Park it was clear GTR had no idea where their driver was. How on earth can a company not know where its staff are?

It really is unbelievable to design a service which relies on a driver being at a place at a particular time and if that doesn't happen you not only cause a delay to that train but all the trains stacked up behind it, and yet nobody knows where the drivers are.

 

[Aictos]

It isn't actually a bad idea, and I think you do have valid points on all fronts for that as a short term solution.

Indeed, because it means that the villages get a decent service and it also means that the timetable south of Royston can be just a little more robust using these former paths.

If they really wanted to make the effort though they could extend the shuttle to start and terminate at Letchworth and turn back in Platform 1 so the Cambridge to London services only call at Letchworth then Royston then Cambridge with the shuttle calling all stations between Cambridge North and Letchworth, this would mean the removal of the Baldock expresses or extending them to Cambridge with the amended calling pattern as above.

The Cambridge services would all be 12 cars where possible in not then 8 cars as to turning round in Platform 1 at Letchworth it CAN be done although using degraded dispatching as it requires a dispatcher to dispatch all northbound services from that platform due to the fact that there is only a shunt signal at the north end of said platform however that could be upgraded to a standard signal for little cost and increased operational flexibility.

That ought to improve the Cambridge branch reliability for the next 2 years.

 

[Aictos]

It is rather staggering incompetence not knowing where your staff are.

GTR knew the changeover driver for yesterday's 13:55 Horsham to Peterborough service was not at Finsbury Park when the train left St Pancras (or I would damn well hope there is a system so they knew), so they knew they would have a delay to that train and to all the following trains. However did they bother to tell any of their customers? Nope.

However from the limited information being given out at Finsbury Park it was clear GTR had no idea where their driver was. How on earth can a company not know where its staff are?

It really is unbelievable to design a service which relies on a driver being at a place at a particular time and if that doesn't happen you not only cause a delay to that train but all the trains stacked up behind it, and yet nobody knows where the drivers are.

To be fair considering how close Finsbury Park and St Pancras Int is, to get a relief driver at Finsbury Park to cover such a delay they should have ensured the relief driver was aware they were needed before the train got to the Core at London Bridge which gives them 20 minutes give or take to ensure they're at Finsbury Park and ready to take over the service.

Seeing that both the Piccadilly line and Victoria line both serve a turn up and go frequency between Kings Cross and Finsbury Park and seeing there is a driver depot at Kings Cross, there is no reason for a relief driver to not be where they should be.

GTR do roster drivers as spare on their diagrams so they can be used to cover work as and when needed, it might well be the case that no spare driver was available to cover the missing driver however this is something that they should have picked up on a lot sooner with the service being either cancelled at Blackfriars and passengers told to board the next service to St Pancras Int and get a Peterborough service from Kings Cross or terminate at Finsbury Park and run ECS to Hornsey depot to await it's next working starting at Finsbury Park.

Now neither of them are attractive options to passengers I know however both of them would have reduced any delays to a minimum and passengers would have been able to claim delay repay.

As to GTR not knowing where their drivers are, this is purely down to lack of internal communications big time as it's unthinkable that day to day operations seem to rely on something resembling a roulette wheel.

GTR really need to pull their finger out however this is only going to happen with a change of direction from the senior management team who are responsible for this entire disaster.

 

[Failed Unit]

I still find it amazing that they are able to get away with cutting the weekend service by 50% on most routes compared to pre May 2018.

Imagine if they proposed that in the consultation.

Would not be as bad if this could be ran reliably but it can’t.

No comment about how long it will last for either. Hopefully they will be back to a more reasonable service when the Arsenal fans return.

 

[bramling]

I still find it amazing that they are able to get away with cutting the weekend service by 50% on most routes compared to pre May 2018.

Imagine if they proposed that in the consultation.

Would not be as bad if this could be ran reliably but it can’t.

No comment about how long it will last for either. Hopefully they will be back to a more reasonable service when the Arsenal fans return.

The Saturday service is pretty dire. The Peterborough route, just about, does okay, with an all-day half-hourly 8-car service, however everything else gets shafted. In particular the Cambridge semi-fast is combined with the fast Ely service, and a couple of these even run from/to Kings Lynn - a mix of 8-car 365, 387 and 700. The least they could have done is run 12-car where possible. Needless to say the Welwyn route gets an hourly 8-car service, albeit 700s. A poor showing, and this of course assumes the planned service runs, which many with experience of weekends will laugh at!

There is no 12-car 700 working at weekends on the GN side. So much for capacity, and making a return on all those million pounds worth of Undesiro rolling stock.

 

[Bedpan]

I still find it amazing that they are able to get away with cutting the weekend service by 50% on most routes compared to pre May 2018.

Imagine if they proposed that in the consultation.

It's a 67% cut over in these parts.

 

[Failed Unit]

It's a 67% cut over in these parts.

Yes. I have noticed at the weekend the Bedford - Brighton is fairly pathetic at 2 trains per hour. St Pancras manages 6 Tph (with the St Albans - Sutton Loop)

But no-one seems to think it is unacceptable within dft or GTR.

Is Saturday part of the drivers working week? It is just Sunday they need volunteers?

Bet it was cosy heading to Brighton pride today.

 

[OwenB]

Agreed about the weekend service. I paid over double to get the bus from Hatfield to Stevenage, but with only 1tph I had to be confident I could make it for the football, otherwise I've wasted £22 on a ticket. It's a ridiculous situation.

 

[Hadders]

There is no 12-car 700 working at weekends on the GN side. So much for capacity, and making a return on all those million pounds worth of Undesiro rolling stock.

Quite. Where are all those 12 car trains that certain former posters on here used to promise us would be the norm?

 

[387star]

Horsham to Peterborough only uses 12 cars

 

[Aictos]

This is it, I fail to see why GTR is having so much trouble grasping the art of running a timetable, They should just run a emergency timetable that is a half hourly service on all routes running as many 12 cars as possible.

Run that until Dec 2019 then by then the training of the drivers on the Class 700s on the GN and the route knowledge via the Core ought to be completed then month by month start to ramp up the service so by May 2020 it's can safely be said that the timetable is working as it should be.

 

[Hadders]

Horsham to Peterborough only uses 12 cars

But they don’t run at weekends!

 

[mmh]

Quite. Where are all those 12 car trains that certain former posters on here used to promise us would be the norm?

Stopping on routes with 10 car platforms and using SDO while 8 car trains pass through on routes with only 12 car platforms, in my experience. All those years of planning, sigh...

 

[jon0844]

Damn those 365s! Platform 1 at WGC currently has a 16 car set (8 car rescuing a broken down 8 car).

And people thought they were supposed to solve the issues on weekends!!

 

[Aictos]

But they don’t run at weekends!

I thought they were meant to or is this a sign of what it should have been?

 

[Hadders]

I thought they were meant to or is this a sign of what it should have been?

There’s nothing through the core from the GN side at weekends in the emergency timetable.

 

[notverydeep]

Damn those 365s! Platform 1 at WGC currently has a 16 car set (8 car rescuing a broken down 8 car).

And people thought they were supposed to solve the issues on weekends!!

I was most surprised to look up from the playground below Digswell Viaduct, where my little ones were playing after lunch to see a 16 car class 365 formation crawling across. Looking at Real Time Trains, this was 1T31, 1247 Ely to King's Cross which failed between Knebworth and Woolmer Green Junction on the up slow, fortunately for everyone else, in a location where other trains could be routed around it. It has then waited for 1T35, 1347 Ely to King's Cross, which was the following compatible train to reach Stevenage, where that was terminated and worked forward to push 1T31 to Welwyn Garden City where this service too was terminated 144 minutes late.

At least 1T35's passengers had only 7 minutes to wait at Stevenage for an LNER train to King's Cross.

We happened to be following on the 2C47 1556 Cambridge to King's Cross from Welwyn North home to Welwyn Garden City. 1T31's passengers were on the platform at WGC anxious to board the next working. They eventually got to King's Cross at 1724, some 4 hours and 37 minutes after leaving Ely and 4 minutes shy of 3 hours late on 1T31's booked time. 700s haven't had it all their way today though. In the midst of all this, 1P47 1424 Peterborough to King's Cross, shown as a 700 on RTT was terminated at Stevenage with door problems (at least going by the code in RTT).

 

[jon0844]

I was most surprised to look up from the playground below Digswell Viaduct, where my little ones were playing after lunch to see a 16 car class 365 formation crawling across. Looking at Real Time Trains, this was 1T31, 1247 Ely to King's Cross which failed between Knebworth and Woolmer Green Junction on the up slow, fortunately for everyone else, in a location where other trains could be routed around it. It has then waited for 1T35, 1347 Ely to King's Cross, which was the following compatible train to reach Stevenage, where that was terminated and worked forward to push 1T31 to Welwyn Garden City where this service too was terminated 144 minutes late.

At least 1T35's passengers had only 7 minutes to wait at Stevenage for an LNER train to King's Cross.

We happened to be following on the 2C47 1556 Cambridge to King's Cross from Welwyn North home to Welwyn Garden City. 1T31's passengers were on the platform at WGC anxious to board the next working. They eventually got to King's Cross at 1724, some 4 hours and 37 minutes after leaving Ely and 4 minutes shy of 3 hours late on 1T31's booked time. 700s haven't had it all their way today though. In the midst of all this, 1P47 1424 Peterborough to King's Cross, shown as a 700 on RTT was terminated at Stevenage with door problems (at least going by the code in RTT).

The 16 car set came in to let people off the front 8, then moved forward to allow trains to access platform 2 (the rear 8 fouling the points). The broken down unit is now in the reverse sidings, so needs to be gone for Monday morning.

 

[Aictos]

There’s nothing through the core from the GN side at weekends in the emergency timetable.

I didn't know that, as I don't travel on the ECML much these days I'm happy to say!

 

[SPADTrap]

The electorate may vote for Shapps on matters other than the performance of GTR.

Hence the brainwashed comment!

 

[infobleep]

But they don’t run at weekends!

Perhaps that answers the question as to why no 12 cars at weekends. If they were running Peterborough and Horsham trains they would have 12 car trains.

You might think they could add extra cars to the trains that are running but surely there job is to run as many trains from the original timetable as possibl, not as many cars as possible. If those trains state they are 8 cars then 8 cars they shall be.

Perhaps all the 12 car trains are on the services cancelled. End of cynicism.

 

[bramling]

Perhaps that answers the question as to why no 12 cars at weekends. If they were running Peterborough and Horsham trains they would have 12 car trains.

You might think they could add extra cars to the trains that are running but surely there job is to run as many trains from the original timetable as possibl, not as many cars as possible. If those trains state they are 8 cars then 8 cars they shall be.

Perhaps all the 12 car trains are on the services cancelled. End of cynicism.

I suspect the reason is that it’s been done in order to make it easier to accommodate the trains at King’s Cross, which would have been more difficult with the timetable not having been planned on the basis of these services running there.

Having said that, they could have done better. King’s Cross isn’t that full - and there’s plenty of long platforms occupied by single 180s.

This is, of course, what happens when idiots go charging in like a bull in a china shop. When it inevitably falls apart it’s not readily straightforward to repair the damage.

 

[Aictos]

Course it would have been better in hindsight that when they DID redevelop Kings Cross that they ensured all platforms were capable of 12 car trains and yes that does include Platforms 9 to 11 because then GN could operate 12 car trains from any platform.

It would also be better if the LNER services were turnaround quicker and not taking up platforms for longer then needed.

 

[Bedpan]

Agreed about the weekend service. I paid over double to get the bus from Hatfield to Stevenage, but with only 1tph I had to be confident I could make it for the football, otherwise I've wasted £22 on a ticket. It's a ridiculous situation.

I wasted £25 on a ticket practically every time I went to MK Dons last season!

 

[MikeWM]

1222 CBG to KGX was formed of a whole 4 carriages today. Supposed to be 12. Walked past it on my way to catch the 1232 to LST and it looked very, very packed out.

I don’t understand these continual shortforms. With everything else so badly wrong, you’d think they’d try to be on top of that as a priority.

 

[OwenB]

I wasted £25 on a ticket practically every time I went to MK Dons last season!

Haha. And you had to spend every other Saturday in Milton Keynes!

 

[OwenB]

1222 CBG to KGX was formed of a whole 4 carriages today. Supposed to be 12. Walked past it on my way to catch the 1232 to LST and it looked very, very packed out.

I don’t understand these continual shortforms. With everything else so badly wrong, you’d think they’d try to be on top of that as a priority.

Given the fact that it's a heavily reduced weekend service, they must have the rolling stock. You're right, it's baffling and pretty inept.