Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[Robsignals]

For every Arlesey there is a Balcombe south of the river. Hourly off peak service delivered by Thameslink. Bus service finishes early etc.

Balcombe is now half-hourly and has more peak fasts with the odd Southern Victoria service, does seem like over provision unless it's being developed as a parkway without much parking. Virtually no buses either, a two-hourly service was tried and failed.

 

[OwenB]

New reason for late running trains this morning: "There is congestion due to a shortage of train crew."

I can't even workshop this one.

 

[Failed Unit]

They still haven’t got the issues fixed relating to real train times. 0802 WGC - London cancelled. This is still showing on the passenger information systems as I type this, despite both the 0527 Cambridge- Kings Cross and the 0706 Kings Cross - Cambridge getting cancelled (same diagram)

0854 WGC - Moorgate is shown as cancelled because of damage to the overhead. I hope they are not attributing this cancellation to the incident near Cambridge as it is 313 operates. However I have known GTR in the past do this, where every delay / cancellation for the rest of the day is down to an incident miles away. No way of proving otherwise to the passengers even if network rail challenges they payments.

 

[OwenB]

They still haven’t got the issues fixed relating to real train times. 0802 WGC - London cancelled. This is still showing on the passenger information systems as I type this, despite both the 0527 Cambridge- Kings Cross and the 0706 Kings Cross - Cambridge getting cancelled (same diagram)

0854 WGC - Moorgate is shown as cancelled because of damage to the overhead. I hope they are not attributing this cancellation to the incident near Cambridge as it is 313 operates. However I have known GTR in the past do this, where every delay / cancellation for the rest of the day is down to an incident miles away. No way of proving otherwise to the passengers even if network rail challenges they payments.

The 06.25 HAT-KGX cancellation was due to a shortage of train crew...

 

[Failed Unit]

The 06.25 HAT-KGX cancellation was due to a shortage of train crew...

So much for matching trained resources to the timetable. Surprised they didn’t blame this cancellation on displaced stock from yesterday. Someone will be in trouble for telling the truth.

 

[OwenB]

So much for matching trained resources to the timetable. Surprised they didn’t blame this cancellation on displaced stock from yesterday. Someone will be in trouble for telling the truth.

Haha, not sure. In fairness, I know trains started running late, they're not too bad from Hatfield aside from that one.

Edit: and the one you mentioned.. maybe they are a bit bad.

 

[Ianno87]

New reason for late running trains this morning: "There is congestion due to a shortage of train crew."

I can't even workshop this one.

Guess: Trains sat in platforms awaiting drivers.

 

[HH]

Guess: Trains sat in platforms awaiting drivers.

Drivers who don't exist?

 

[infobleep]

http://www.itv.com/news/2018-07-17/...nderestimated-rail-cancellations-by-ten-fold/

Sorry if I've repeated this but it is interesting

KRO

A spokesperson for GTR said: “The scale of cancellations associated with the implementation of the new timetable was not – and could not have been - known at the time of this briefing

Could someone please explain to me how it could not have been known at the time of the briefing that there would be so many cancellations?

I don't see how that is possible so can someone else explain?

 

[hertscommuter]

I was on a Letchworth - Kings Cross train yesterday morning, journey was uneventful but on arrival on Kings Cross when the train stopped I looked outside and we were some distance short of the platform. I assumed we would be on the move again shortly but then the driver came on the PA and announced that the signaller had mistakenly signalled our 8 car train into an already occupied platform.

Cue some delay as station staff hurried to manually unlock doors in the front part of the train and long-suffering commuters shuffled down to the front where we could disembark onto the platform safely.

Been commuting on that line for a long time but this was a first for me. I wonder to what extent the current timetable problems might be putting staff under pressure and making mistakes like this more likely?

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I was on a Letchworth - Kings Cross train yesterday morning, journey was uneventful but on arrival on Kings Cross when the train stopped I looked outside and we were some distance short of the platform. I assumed we would be on the move again shortly but then the driver came on the PA and announced that the signaller had mistakenly signalled our 8 car train into an already occupied platform.

Cue some delay as station staff hurried to manually unlock doors in the front part of the train and long-suffering commuters shuffled down to the front where we could disembark onto the platform safely.

Been commuting on that line for a long time but this was a first for me. I wonder to what extent the current timetable problems might be putting staff under pressure and making mistakes like this more likely?

Was that an 8 car onto another 8 car in the main shed or an 8 car onto an already occupied Platform 9/10/11?

In the latter case, that's driver error for accepting a dolly when he's got a train the length of the platform and therefore can't be accommodated!

 

[philjo]

Was that an 8 car onto another 8 car in the main shed or an 8 car onto an already occupied Platform 9/10/11?

In the latter case, that's driver error for accepting a dolly when he's got a train the length of the platform and therefore can't be accommodated!

I understand that it was in platform 7 in the main shed.

 

[hertscommuter]

"Was that an 8 car onto another 8 car in the main shed or an 8 car onto an already occupied Platform 9/10/11?"
It was in the main shed, maybe platform 5 or 6. I was in coach 6 of 8 and was adjacent to where the platform slopes down.

Edit - I see another better informed reader has confirmed it was platform 7.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

"Was that an 8 car onto another 8 car in the main shed or an 8 car onto an already occupied Platform 9/10/11?"
It was in the main shed, maybe platform 5 or 6. I was in coach 6 of 8 and was adjacent to where the platform slopes down.

Edit - I see another better informed reader has confirmed it was platform 7.

Kings Cross PSB lost its overlength counters in a bid to save money, and then no real mitigation has been put in place to prevent instances of the signal clearing because that’s just what it would do. Before, an 8 car in 7 would be counted and then the approaching 8 car would also be counted and Quelle Surprise the signal wouldn’t pull off.

In the peak hours especially if we didn’t expect to join to something I recall the old process, especially going into main shed where an 8 car won’t fit onto a 180 in some platforms (not that KX PSB didn’t try enough times!), was to call up and confirm. Shame this isn’t being followed.

 

[bramling]

So much for matching trained resources to the timetable. Surprised they didn’t blame this cancellation on displaced stock from yesterday. Someone will be in trouble for telling the truth.

Well they’ve been given a week. The service is less bad than before (could it have been any worse?), however there’s still cancellations occurring. Did we notice the school holidays are now here which is never a good time for coverage?!

However performance remains firmly not good. Delays of 10-15 minutes are common on core services, which is naturally causing reactionary delays - and this is with only a maximum of 3 out of the planned 8 hourly exciting ShamblesLink/ core services running. I remain totally unconvinced that this network can take much more than it is running. Locally people still seem as dissatisfied as ever with various aspects of the new service.

They should just cap it at 4tph to bring the extra capacity, and spread the services about so each route gets 1tph. This would provide a happy balance of all priorities. It’s not acceptable to have to continually enter into a lottery of how long the journey will take when travelling on the Horsham/Peterborough and Brighton/Cambridge services, especially for what should be shorter journeys.

 

[Aictos]

They still haven’t got the issues fixed relating to real train times. 0802 WGC - London cancelled. This is still showing on the passenger information systems as I type this, despite both the 0527 Cambridge- Kings Cross and the 0706 Kings Cross - Cambridge getting cancelled (same diagram)

0854 WGC - Moorgate is shown as cancelled because of damage to the overhead. I hope they are not attributing this cancellation to the incident near Cambridge as it is 313 operates. However I have known GTR in the past do this, where every delay / cancellation for the rest of the day is down to an incident miles away. No way of proving otherwise to the passengers even if network rail challenges they payments.

I'm not apologising for GTR but maybe just maybe the driver for the 0854 WGC - Moorgate was delayed by the disruption between Royston and Cambridge? Just because the service from Welwyn goes nowhere near Cambridge doesn't mean it won't be affected especially if the driver for the Welwyn stopper is commuting in from Cambridge.

For example you have Hitchin drivers who commute in from Peterborough so if they're meant to relieve a driver at Hitchin for a service heading to Cambridge and there's disruption at Huntingdon then obviously even though that train is nowhere near the affected area, the relief driver for the Cambridge is now delayed which impacts on the Cambridge service and having to find a alternative driver for it.

Not a dig at you but sometimes people don't see the bigger picture and just assume stuff!

Kings Cross PSB lost its overlength counters in a bid to save money, and then no real mitigation has been put in place to prevent instances of the signal clearing because that’s just what it would do. Before, an 8 car in 7 would be counted and then the approaching 8 car would also be counted and Quelle Surprise the signal wouldn’t pull off.

In the peak hours especially if we didn’t expect to join to something I recall the old process, especially going into main shed where an 8 car won’t fit onto a 180 in some platforms (not that KX PSB didn’t try enough times!), was to call up and confirm. Shame this isn’t being followed.

When did the overlength counters go then? I know a few years ago, a 12 car was signalled into Platform 9 and yes the route was taken!

 

[jon0844]

Trains were out of place yesterday, with some drivers spending the whole night at WGC doing nothing because of engineering works that stopped movements after about 2330, but trains that never ran because of the earlier overhead wire problems (including two units sustaining damage to pantographs).

Now GTR could have perhaps explained this better, just as if could have not advertised two trains at WGC last night that couldn't run through the blockade and had to divert via Hertford, and that's a big problem but otherwise there isn't some big conspiracy. Some drivers were out of place since last night and were finishing in the morning and would have reached their hours, so had little to do with stock elsewhere.

 

[otomous]

Was that an 8 car onto another 8 car in the main shed or an 8 car onto an already occupied Platform 9/10/11?

In the latter case, that's driver error for accepting a dolly when he's got a train the length of the platform and therefore can't be accommodated!

That depends. I was trained to query being called on if I had more than 4 cars, but that doesn’t seem to feature in current training. I asked for clarification some years ago and am still waiting for the answer. There are plenty of drivers who don’t think they need to check. And not all TOCs are the same - some rely on the signaller to get it right and that’s that.

 

[bramling]

That depends. I was trained to query being called on if I had more than 4 cars, but that doesn’t seem to feature in current training. I asked for clarification some years ago and am still waiting for the answer. There are plenty of drivers who don’t think they need to check. And not all TOCs are the same - some rely on the signaller to get it right and that’s that.

To be fair it’s quite rare for KX to get it wrong. No doubt things got a lot more complicated when we started seeing more trains which didn’t fit into the basic arrangement of 4x20m vehicles. The 180s and GC HSTs must have introduced a lot of complication.

 

[Failed Unit]

I'm not apologising for GTR but maybe just maybe the driver for the 0854 WGC - Moorgate was delayed by the disruption between Royston and Cambridge? Just because the service from Welwyn goes nowhere near Cambridge doesn't mean it won't be affected especially if the driver for the Welwyn stopper is commuting in from Cambridge.

For example you have Hitchin drivers who commute in from Peterborough so if they're meant to relieve a driver at Hitchin for a service heading to Cambridge and there's disruption at Huntingdon then obviously even though that train is nowhere near the affected area, the relief driver for the Cambridge is now delayed which impacts on the Cambridge service and having to find a alternative driver for it.

Not a dig at you but sometimes people don't see the bigger picture and just assume stuff!



When did the overlength counters go then? I know a few years ago, a 12 car was signalled into Platform 9 and yes the route was taken!

Very possible that crew were out of place from the day before disruption. But they could have just put “cancelled due to an operational issue”. Us passengers wouldn’t have batted an eye lid. Highlighting yesterday’s problem again did, in a negative way.

 

[jon0844]

Very possible that crew were out of place from the day before disruption. But they could have just put “cancelled due to an operational issue”. Us passengers wouldn’t have batted an eye lid. Highlighting yesterday’s problem again did, in a negative way.

The way information is given to passengers is pretty awful. This was an incident where 'operational incident' was a valid reason but it has lost its meaning since being so heavily used to explain the timetable problems before.

 

[Failed Unit]

The way information is given to passengers is pretty awful. This was an incident where 'operational incident' was a valid reason but it has lost its meaning since being so heavily used to explain the timetable problems before.

Yes basic information is something you would hope they can get right. Like this morning having staff on the platform trying to get people onto the 0754 because the 0802 was cancelled but the monitor still showing it on time. (No idea when it was changed to cancelled. But considering the inward working was cancelled it was not a surprise to anyone)

 

[jon0844]

I've noticed some trains aren't linked again so a cancelled inbound won't correct the outbound/return working.

The inbound service to form the 0802 was meant to be reinstated this morning. Wonder what happened?

 

[Failed Unit]

I've noticed some trains aren't linked again so a cancelled inbound won't correct the outbound/return working.

The inbound service to form the 0802 was meant to be reinstated this morning. Wonder what happened?

It’s only hope is if they sent it ECS from Cambridge. (As it’s first working wad cancelled) When I checked this morning I checked the inbound and left a little earlier to hedge my bets, in case it was really running and was in WGC sidings as the stock didn’t make it north last night.

The things we have to check to try and get a train in the morning.

But conflicting information from monitors and platform staff is never a good thing. Especially with sadly how some people treat the platform staff.

 

[infobleep]

The way information is given to passengers is pretty awful. This was an incident where 'operational incident' was a valid reason but it has lost its meaning since being so heavily used to explain the timetable problems before.

The 7:19 Sutton to St Albans was cancelled this morning and that reason was due to an operational incident. I just assumed it was due to the new timetable. This shows people's thinking when they see that reason or at least regular travellers thinking.

 

[westcoaster]

To be fair it’s quite rare for KX to get it wrong. No doubt things got a lot more complicated when we started seeing more trains which didn’t fit into the basic arrangement of 4x20m vehicles. The 180s and GC HSTs must have introduced a lot of complication.

At certain location we were told to obey the position light without quiring it. As the signaller will only signalling you in on top of a train as they know the train length .

 

[Surreytraveller]

At certain location we were told to obey the position light without quiring it. As the signaller will only signalling you in on top of a train as they know the train length .

The signaller *should* know the train length. It might not be the length they think it is. Or they might have got it wrong.

 

[Hitchincommute]

It’s only hope is if they sent it ECS from Cambridge. (As it’s first working wad cancelled)
.

A 700 went through Hitchin at 0704 ECS so maybe that was meant to form the 0802 from WGC.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I'm not apologising for GTR but maybe just maybe the driver for the 0854 WGC - Moorgate was delayed by the disruption between Royston and Cambridge? Just because the service from Welwyn goes nowhere near Cambridge doesn't mean it won't be affected especially if the driver for the Welwyn stopper is commuting in from Cambridge.

For example you have Hitchin drivers who commute in from Peterborough so if they're meant to relieve a driver at Hitchin for a service heading to Cambridge and there's disruption at Huntingdon then obviously even though that train is nowhere near the affected area, the relief driver for the Cambridge is now delayed which impacts on the Cambridge service and having to find a alternative driver for it.

Not a dig at you but sometimes people don't see the bigger picture and just assume stuff!



When did the overlength counters go then? I know a few years ago, a 12 car was signalled into Platform 9 and yes the route was taken!

Happened last year. I did have a chuckle.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

The signaller *should* know the train length. It might not be the length they think it is. Or they might have got it wrong.

Let’s be honest at the moment GTR’s train lengths on the GN are absolutely all over the place. Peak Lynn trains are leaving with 4 coaches.