Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[jon0844]

The Moorgate services aren't at 15 minute intervals. In the new timetable from WGC, it's xx58, xx09, xx28 and xx39. Every other one stopping at Brookmans Park and Welham Green.

But now off peak (between around 1000 and 1600) there's a xx09, xx26 and xx58. I don't know the new stopping patterns.

 

[TFN]

The Catford Loop stations have been done dirty here. I only travel off-peak but there's no way I'm taking ThamesLink from St Pancras Intl to Blackfriars, then jumping going across to Platform 3 to get a Sevenoaks train. I love the 700 but it's not worth it. Onwards to Southeastern and their awful Networkers

 

[Megafuss]

Travelled on a Thameslink service for the first time after the change from Blackfriars to Hitchin during peak time...and it was on time at every stop. I can almost see me whining about the layover time at Finsbury Park if this keeps up....

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Very good amended service today in terms of punctuality (as far as I saw) - on the 1806 northbound to Bedford and the 0911 southbound this am.

(as indeed was LNER to York)

 

[bramling]

Travelled on a Thameslink service for the first time after the change from Blackfriars to Hitchin during peak time...and it was on time at every stop. I can almost see me whining about the layover time at Finsbury Park if this keeps up....

I wouldn’t do that - looking through RTTT for yesterday and today a fair few northbound services have needed that in order to make up time having picked up delay minutes on the Brighton line.

Five minutes to get from King’s Cross to Finsbury Park in the 1990s with 317s, 11 minutes in the 2020s with 700s, with just a few billions spent along the way to deliver this...

 

[ijmad]

Not doing brilliantly on routes via East Croydon tonight. At least a couple of East Grinstead services cancelled due to lack of driver resources, plus 700136 was a very naughty train and sat down on the Up Slow south of Purley for some time (just terminated and now ECS).

Still... overall compared to Thursday or Friday last week, this revised timetable is a revelation.

Now, does anyone know if the new rostering enable them to resume driver route learning?

 

[OwenB]

I wouldn’t do that - looking through RTTT for yesterday and today a fair few northbound services have needed that in order to make up time having picked up delay minutes on the Brighton line.

Five minutes to get from King’s Cross to Finsbury Park in the 1990s with 317s, 11 minutes in the 2020s with 700s, with just a few billions spent along the way to deliver this...

But we can go to Horsham whenever we want. Don't be ungrateful of the many benefits we're getting...

 

[bramling]

But we can go to Horsham whenever we want. Don't be ungrateful of the many benefits we're getting...

I can’t contain my “excitement”!

 

[Aictos]

Five minutes to get from King’s Cross to Finsbury Park in the 1990s with 317s, 11 minutes in the 2020s with 700s, with just a few billions spent along the way to deliver this...

Just to point out that the railway is a lot busier nowadays then it was in the 90s with a lot more services running so having extra time in the timetable between Kings Cross and Finsbury Park is a good thing.

It also helps ensure the timetable stays reliable and robust, something you're always going on about

 

[Bedpan]

I love the 700

Excuse me for asking, but would you by any chance be a visitor from a parallel universe?
I will admit that the 700s are probably fit for purpose for people travelling from St Pancras to Blackfriars or similar length journeys.

 

[ungreat]

Now, does anyone know if the new rostering enable them to resume driver route learning?

No. We are still NOT route learning....

 

[ungreat]

 

[ungreat]

Seeing as LNER was OLR1....is this GTR?

 

[Failed Unit]

I must admit things were better yesterday. More normal today.

I still don’t get the insistence they must skip stop at the smallest delay. This morning the 0721 London - Cambridge picked up a delay going to Finsbury Park. Solution make everyone traveling north from Potters Bar - Knebworth wait over 1 hour until the next service. This train has a lot of people from the south changing onto LNER at Stevenage or just heading to work.

I can understand if the next service is not far behind. But deliberately leaving 90 minute gaps via skip stopping is wrong to me.

 

[OwenB]

I must admit things were better yesterday. More normal today.

I still don’t get the insistence they must skip stop at the smallest delay. This morning the 0721 London - Cambridge picked up a delay going to Finsbury Park. Solution make everyone traveling north from Potters Bar - Knebworth wait over 1 hour until the next service. This train has a lot of people from the south changing onto LNER at Stevenage or just heading to work.

I can understand if the next service is not far behind. But deliberately leaving 90 minute gaps via skip stopping is wrong to me.

A few breakdowns this morning... Presume they're protecting their PPM with the other services, with political pressure on them to look like they're running a punctual service.

 

[Agent_Squash]

A few breakdowns this morning... Presume they're protecting their PPM with the other services, with political pressure on them to look like they're running a punctual service.

If a service skip-stops, doesn't it fail PPM?

 

[Downthelane]

Shape of a pear at Finsbury Park. Unclear whether it's a failed 387 just south or a power issue. FL up queuing.

 

[OwenB]

If a service skip-stops, doesn't it fail PPM?

Not sure. Someone previously said that a previous service(s) didn't show up as having failed PPM.

 

[Failed Unit]

Not sure. Someone previously said that a previous service(s) didn't show up as having failed PPM.

Didn’t yesterday. I know of 2 skip stop services in am peak - but non showed up as cancellations.

 

[Fred26]

If a service skip-stops, doesn't it fail PPM?

Yes. If any part of a journey is cancelled it will fail PPM.

 

[Aictos]

I thought panel 3 went to Hatfield and 4 was WGC to Hitchin.

I was slightly out, after double checking it seems that Panel 3 only went as Brookmans Park with Panel 4 as far as Knebworth.

Below are the areas of control per panel:

Kings Cross to Holloway including the Up Goods as far as Finsbury Park aka Panel 1
Finsbury Park to Hornsey aka Panel 2
Hornsey to Brookmans Park and to Cuffley aka Panel 3
Brookmans Park to Knebworth and Cuffley to Watton at Stone aka Panel 4
Knebworth to Biggleswade/Royston and Watton at Stone to Stevenage aka Panel 5

 

[OwenB]

Yes. If any part of a journey is cancelled it will fail PPM.

Cool thanks. Maybe an error yesterday then?

 

[HH]

Seeing as LNER was OLR1....is this GTR?

I rather suspect that they have one company ready in case of need, rather than it being specifically for GTR. Companies take a bit of time to set up, especially when you need ministerial sign off, so you don't want to be doing it at the last minute.

 

[arb]

Seeing as LNER was OLR1....is this GTR?

If you scrolled down the original page from the screenshot you posted, which I assume is from https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/03266762, then you'd see that OLR2 was incorporated way back in 1996. It's gone through a variety of other names before becoming known as OLR2 in March this year, and was previously known as "Cross Country Trains Limited"!

 

[greatkingrat]

Cool thanks. Maybe an error yesterday then?

The "live" PPM statistics shown on various websites are not the final official ones, they will just look at the arrival time at the final destination and don't necessarily pick up things like skip stopping.

 

[OwenB]

The "live" PPM statistics shown on various websites are not the final official ones, they will just look at the arrival time at the final destination and don't necessarily pick up things like skip stopping.

Gotcha. Thank you for the explanation. I presume they confirm the statistics at the end of the day.

 

[Kanrakuq]

There's so much skip stopping going on today, but I don't get it, even when they skip five or more stations, the trains don't seem to be any more on time afterwards. Earlier on today, a train to Brighton left from Cambridge 45 minutes late, skip stopped many stations including London Bridge, and was still nearly 45 minutes late when it got to Gatwick (it did then make up 10 minutes after that by running fast to Brighton). They getting stuck behind stopping trains or something? If that's the case, don't see why they're not just picking up passengers too.

 

[notverydeep]

I was slightly out, after double checking it seems that Panel 3 only went as Brookmans Park with Panel 4 as far as Knebworth.

Below are the areas of control per panel:

Kings Cross to Holloway including the Up Goods as far as Finsbury Park aka Panel 1
Finsbury Park to Hornsey aka Panel 2
Hornsey to Brookmans Park and to Cuffley aka Panel 3
Brookmans Park to Knebworth and Cuffley to Watton at Stone aka Panel 4
Knebworth to Biggleswade/Royston and Watton at Stone to Stevenage aka Panel 5

Thank you for clarifying with this interesting stuff. I assume that each of the panels have a mimic diagram showing at movements approaching their area, so that they have enough information and time to plan any decisions to change a train's routing, or alternatively, are the panel's mimic diagrams placed adjacent to each other in such a way that they can be read from adjacent desks?

There's so much skip stopping going on today, but I don't get it, even when they skip five or more stations, the trains don't seem to be any more on time afterwards. Earlier on today, a train to Brighton left from Cambridge 45 minutes late, skip stopped many stations including London Bridge, and was still nearly 45 minutes late when it got to Gatwick (it did then make up 10 minutes after that by running fast to Brighton). They getting stuck behind stopping trains or something? If that's the case, don't see why they're not just picking up passengers too.

Last week, I travelled on the 0732 Welwyn Garden City to King's Cross very late and immediately in front of the 0802 Welwyn Garden City to King's. It was advertised as non stop to Finsbury Park and I was hoping we would get the 'up fast' line from Marshmoor Junction. No chance, having set off right behind a Moorgate service it was slow line all the way and it ended up losing more time even without the normal stops!

 

[Failed Unit]

I have found that a lot recently as well. The example this morning made it to Cambridge on time. But many either stay as late or lose more time stuck behind other stopping trains. So all they do is annoy everyone.

But to me. If the next service is not within 30 mins, skip stopping should not happen.

 

[Failed Unit]

The Moorgate services aren't at 15 minute intervals. In the new timetable from WGC, it's xx58, xx09, xx28 and xx39. Every other one stopping at Brookmans Park and Welham Green.

But now off peak (between around 1000 and 1600) there's a xx09, xx26 and xx58. I don't know the new stopping patterns.

09 and 26 stop all stations. 58 skips Brookmans Park and Welham green.