Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[Fred26]

Sounds at least though like morale’s back on its way up if staff are going the extra mile

Not from where I'm sitting it isn't. Until the service and information improve morale isn't going anywhere but the gutter.

I certainly wouldn't say that.

After a trip out today i have had a booking clerk agree with me that his employers are incompetent and i also over heard a driver saying 'do you want me to drive every f'in train' !

Not exactly what i would call good staff morale !!

Personally i think staff at the coal face are as fed up as us passengers.

Indeed.

 

[Hitchincommute]

Apparently everything now declassified for the foreseeable future (not that there have been any RPIs since May).

I’ve had an email saying this is only until the temporary timetable is introduced on 15th July.

 

[farleigh]

Let's hope it all runs more smoothly from the 15th

 

[gingerheid]

I hope it involves some kind of Plan (mods, please edit if P word is offensive to certain train operators), and that the plan is not a cunning plan devised by Blackadder.

 

[HH]

I hope it involves some kind of Plan (mods, please edit if P word is offensive to certain train operators), and that the plan is not a cunning plan devised by Blackadder.

No, it's been devised by Baldrick.

 

[Aictos]

Not from where I'm sitting it isn't. Until the service and information improve morale isn't going anywhere but the gutter.

It's disappointing that morale is at rock bottom as the plan from the 20th May did seem to be a good idea however for a number of reasons it has not so far proved to be so.

Point 1. People keep on and on about Class 365s currently off lease and wanting them back, it ain't going to happen apart from the ones still in service with GTR as the fleet plans would have been agreed with both the DfT and the ROSCO so won't be changing.

Point 2. The Class 700s, I believe there is a clause to extend some/all of the 8 car Class 700s to be 12 car Class 700s however that depends on the funding being made available.

It would be nice to see existing 8 car Class 700s being extended to 12 car Class 700s to provide a increase in capacity on various routes using SDO operation on stations which cannot have their platforms extended to 12 cars however that depends on funding being made available.

Point 3. The service won't improve until the information improves equally the information won't improve until the service improves in order to do this, the DfT, Network Rail and GTR all have the task of performing this miracle by introducing a base timetable then slowly add services as and when the resources become available.

As to information being made available, this depends on the source and while it might sound a good idea to have everyone in the same room at Three Bridges, they do come across as being undermanned especially the social media team which has one or two people being responsible for 4 Twitter feeds which considering the size of GTR is not a good idea.

Ideally the social media team ought to be split into two with one team being responsible for just Thameslink and Great Northern with the other team being responsible for just Southern and Gatwick Express which breaks the workload into manageable chunks.

The lack of information though is not just restricted to GTR as it affects other operators who serve on their routes for example on a recent journey on the Midland Mainline I observed a EMT service with incorrect info being advertised on a Thameslink operated station so it's not just GTR who has issues.

What should happen in GTR especially in disruption is to have hubs where such stations can get information and relay it to stations within their group ie:

Stevenage - Huntingdon to Welwyn North
Royston - Letchworth to Kings Lynn
Finsbury Park - Drayton Park to Moorgate and Finsbury Park
Welwyn Garden City - Welwyn Garden City to Hornsey
Hertford North - Watton at Stone to Bowes Park

National Express East Anglia did this and it seem to work.

Point 4. The GTR management need to do a lot more to improve morale, something as simple as having the senior management team being out and about interacting with the public and listening to their staff taking onboard their advice because if you look after your staff well then they will not only be happier but their productivity will increase as well as customer service results will increase.

Point 5. Finally I think it will get better but it

 

[Fred26]

It's disappointing that morale is at rock bottom as the plan from the 20th May did seem to be a good idea however for a number of reasons it has not so far proved to be so.

Point 1. People keep on and on about Class 365s currently off lease and wanting them back, it ain't going to happen apart from the ones still in service with GTR as the fleet plans would have been agreed with both the DfT and the ROSCO so won't be changing.

Point 2. The Class 700s, I believe there is a clause to extend some/all of the 8 car Class 700s to be 12 car Class 700s however that depends on the funding being made available.

It would be nice to see existing 8 car Class 700s being extended to 12 car Class 700s to provide a increase in capacity on various routes using SDO operation on stations which cannot have their platforms extended to 12 cars however that depends on funding being made available.

Point 3. The service won't improve until the information improves equally the information won't improve until the service improves in order to do this, the DfT, Network Rail and GTR all have the task of performing this miracle by introducing a base timetable then slowly add services as and when the resources become available.

As to information being made available, this depends on the source and while it might sound a good idea to have everyone in the same room at Three Bridges, they do come across as being undermanned especially the social media team which has one or two people being responsible for 4 Twitter feeds which considering the size of GTR is not a good idea.

Ideally the social media team ought to be split into two with one team being responsible for just Thameslink and Great Northern with the other team being responsible for just Southern and Gatwick Express which breaks the workload into manageable chunks.

The lack of information though is not just restricted to GTR as it affects other operators who serve on their routes for example on a recent journey on the Midland Mainline I observed a EMT service with incorrect info being advertised on a Thameslink operated station so it's not just GTR who has issues.

What should happen in GTR especially in disruption is to have hubs where such stations can get information and relay it to stations within their group ie:

Stevenage - Huntingdon to Welwyn North
Royston - Letchworth to Kings Lynn
Finsbury Park - Drayton Park to Moorgate and Finsbury Park
Welwyn Garden City - Welwyn Garden City to Hornsey
Hertford North - Watton at Stone to Bowes Park

National Express East Anglia did this and it seem to work.

Point 4. The GTR management need to do a lot more to improve morale, something as simple as having the senior management team being out and about interacting with the public and listening to their staff taking onboard their advice because if you look after your staff well then they will not only be happier but their productivity will increase as well as customer service results will increase.

Point 5. Finally I think it will get better but it

I agree with most of your post, however;

If EMT information is incorrect at a GTR station, that is the responsibility of GTR. They control their screens, EMT control theirs. Same at Peterborough and Cambridge etc...

On point 4, there are Supervisors at Kings Cross, Moorgate, Finsbury Park and Stevenage. I do think that information should be restricted to just these stations from Control as that would (presumably) allow information to flow more easily. Of course it would have to come with the proviso that the information was passed on to other stations.

 

[Aictos]

Granted I agree with you on the flow of information via the four stations above however for Stevenage to be responsible for Welwyn North to Huntingdon, Kings Lynn AND the Hertford Loop is a lot to ask a supervisor to do which is why I would adapt my initial idea to make Hertford North responsible for the loop as it was pre 2011 although back then it was Enfield Chase who was responsible for the Hertford Loop.

 

[Fred26]

Granted I agree with you on the flow of information via the four stations above however for Stevenage to be responsible for Welwyn North to Huntingdon, Kings Lynn AND the Hertford Loop is a lot to ask a supervisor to do which is why I would adapt my initial idea to make Hertford North responsible for the loop as it was pre 2011 although back then it was Enfield Chase who was responsible for the Hertford Loop.

I've been with GN over ten years, but I don't recall anyone other than Stevenage taking responsibility for the loop.
Stevenage have an exceptionally large area. Shouldn't be like that, but there you go.

 

[jon0844]

I've been with GN over ten years, but I don't recall anyone other than Stevenage taking responsibility for the loop.
Stevenage have an exceptionally large area. Shouldn't be like that, but there you go.

Stevenage has a lot of staff and they seem to have a good knowledge of things. Unlike the new control centre at Three Bridges. You can't beat local knowledge and from midnight tonight, that's going to be lost to a degree.

 

[ComUtoR]

Unlike the new control centre at Three Bridges.

Quite a few newbies up TBROC at the moment. I had a worrying conversation with one but in all honesty I understood he had problems of his own too. One of them really is because nobody knows what train is going of coming from where. The new timetable should stabilize train movements at the least and also provide some continuity with diagrams and sync up Driver+Train a whole lot better.

 

[OwenB]

And I just wish they would turn off the half-hourly crackling 'See it, Say it, Sort it' voice over the PA. It crackles away like a constipated Dalek

Yes! I want to smash the train up every time I hear it.

 

[43055]

I used Thameslink through the core section only today and the service level was not brilliant and the train that I got in the morning continuing to Brighton was full and standing with I think people being left behind after City Thameslink.

From what I could work out the only services running today are:
Bedford - Brighton (2ph)
Bedford - Blackfriars (2ph)
Blackfriars - Sevenoaks (2ph)

 

[jon0844]

Yes! I want to smash the train up every time I hear it.

It's a requirement to play these announcements at stations, with the frequency dependant on the security threat level. They do not interrupt other announcements, and staff can always talk over them too.

They will play every 20 minutes I think, possible even less frequently. On trains, I have no idea what the frequency is but it's probably about the same.

Anyone noticed that if the screens take a while to update to show the graphic on a 700, it makes the audio crackle? I am not 100% sure that's the cause, but it seems to be what happens at the same time as the audio messing up.

 

[Hadders]

It's disappointing that morale is at rock bottom as the plan from the 20th May did seem to be a good idea however for a number of reasons it has not so far proved to be so.

Point 1. People keep on and on about Class 365s currently off lease and wanting them back, it ain't going to happen apart from the ones still in service with GTR as the fleet plans would have been agreed with both the DfT and the ROSCO so won't be changing.

Point 2. The Class 700s, I believe there is a clause to extend some/all of the 8 car Class 700s to be 12 car Class 700s however that depends on the funding being made available.

It would be nice to see existing 8 car Class 700s being extended to 12 car Class 700s to provide a increase in capacity on various routes using SDO operation on stations which cannot have their platforms extended to 12 cars however that depends on funding being made available.

Point 3. The service won't improve until the information improves equally the information won't improve until the service improves in order to do this, the DfT, Network Rail and GTR all have the task of performing this miracle by introducing a base timetable then slowly add services as and when the resources become available.

As to information being made available, this depends on the source and while it might sound a good idea to have everyone in the same room at Three Bridges, they do come across as being undermanned especially the social media team which has one or two people being responsible for 4 Twitter feeds which considering the size of GTR is not a good idea.

Ideally the social media team ought to be split into two with one team being responsible for just Thameslink and Great Northern with the other team being responsible for just Southern and Gatwick Express which breaks the workload into manageable chunks.

The lack of information though is not just restricted to GTR as it affects other operators who serve on their routes for example on a recent journey on the Midland Mainline I observed a EMT service with incorrect info being advertised on a Thameslink operated station so it's not just GTR who has issues.

What should happen in GTR especially in disruption is to have hubs where such stations can get information and relay it to stations within their group ie:

Stevenage - Huntingdon to Welwyn North
Royston - Letchworth to Kings Lynn
Finsbury Park - Drayton Park to Moorgate and Finsbury Park
Welwyn Garden City - Welwyn Garden City to Hornsey
Hertford North - Watton at Stone to Bowes Park

National Express East Anglia did this and it seem to work.

Point 4. The GTR management need to do a lot more to improve morale, something as simple as having the senior management team being out and about interacting with the public and listening to their staff taking onboard their advice because if you look after your staff well then they will not only be happier but their productivity will increase as well as customer service results will increase.

Point 5. Finally I think it will get better but it

All of this should’ve been sorted well before 20th May given the scale of the change.

The fact that it isn’t just undlines the complete and utter shambles that Thameslink has become.

 

[fusionblue]

Point 2 wouldn't have been worthwhile given 2 of the 3 legacy routes south of Blackfriars are mostly 8 cars only. Adding SDO to every single stop would add dwell time (on top of that the trains never stop talking between stops!)

 

[bramling]

It's disappointing that morale is at rock bottom as the plan from the 20th May did seem to be a good idea however for a number of reasons it has not so far proved to be so.

Point 1. People keep on and on about Class 365s currently off lease and wanting them back, it ain't going to happen apart from the ones still in service with GTR as the fleet plans would have been agreed with both the DfT and the ROSCO so won't be changing.

Point 2. The Class 700s, I believe there is a clause to extend some/all of the 8 car Class 700s to be 12 car Class 700s however that depends on the funding being made available.

It would be nice to see existing 8 car Class 700s being extended to 12 car Class 700s to provide a increase in capacity on various routes using SDO operation on stations which cannot have their platforms extended to 12 cars however that depends on funding being made available.

Point 3. The service won't improve until the information improves equally the information won't improve until the service improves in order to do this, the DfT, Network Rail and GTR all have the task of performing this miracle by introducing a base timetable then slowly add services as and when the resources become available.

As to information being made available, this depends on the source and while it might sound a good idea to have everyone in the same room at Three Bridges, they do come across as being undermanned especially the social media team which has one or two people being responsible for 4 Twitter feeds which considering the size of GTR is not a good idea.

Ideally the social media team ought to be split into two with one team being responsible for just Thameslink and Great Northern with the other team being responsible for just Southern and Gatwick Express which breaks the workload into manageable chunks.

The lack of information though is not just restricted to GTR as it affects other operators who serve on their routes for example on a recent journey on the Midland Mainline I observed a EMT service with incorrect info being advertised on a Thameslink operated station so it's not just GTR who has issues.

What should happen in GTR especially in disruption is to have hubs where such stations can get information and relay it to stations within their group ie:

Stevenage - Huntingdon to Welwyn North
Royston - Letchworth to Kings Lynn
Finsbury Park - Drayton Park to Moorgate and Finsbury Park
Welwyn Garden City - Welwyn Garden City to Hornsey
Hertford North - Watton at Stone to Bowes Park

National Express East Anglia did this and it seem to work.

Point 4. The GTR management need to do a lot more to improve morale, something as simple as having the senior management team being out and about interacting with the public and listening to their staff taking onboard their advice because if you look after your staff well then they will not only be happier but their productivity will increase as well as customer service results will increase.

Point 5. Finally I think it will get better but it

A few points. Firstly the May 20th plan was hardly a good idea when it was clearly impossible to implement. If us mere observers on here could quite clearly see it was too much change AND too much change in a short period of time then so should the DFT and GTR.

As for the 365s, taking this in conjunction with the point about lengthening the reduced length undesiros, why bother spending money lengthening an unpopular design when you could just put the 365s back on lease (which should be dirt cheap as the leasing companies would presumably rather lease them than pay storage costs), allowing GN to get the dependable King’s Cross services people *need*, then cascade a few full length undesiros to crowded inner-suburban metro services or routes which may actually desire them, of which there are plenty. I wouldn’t by any means write the 365s off yet - posting this just moments after driving under a bridge and seeing the pleasant surprise of 2x365s pass overhead, something which we weren’t supposed to be seeing on weekends now!

 

[Hadders]

I’ve seen lots of 365s operating at weekends since 20th May.

We were told it wasn’t going to happen though....

 

[bramling]

Point 2 wouldn't have been worthwhile given 2 of the 3 legacy routes south of Blackfriars are mostly 8 cars only. Adding SDO to every single stop would add dwell time (on top of that the trains never stop talking between stops!)

This is one of the weaknesses of the Thameslink Programme. We hear all about capacity, yet there’s been very little platform lengthening. Where’s the big capacity increase for places like Welwyn or the Hertford Loop? Locked into 8 and 6 car trains for the foreseeable future is the answer. They couldn’t even be bothered to do a full job at the three village stations. Lengthening Baldock (and ideally Knebworth and Welwyn North) would have allowed the peak Baldocks to be 12 cars - failure to do this has certainly exacerbated the current shambles as the Baldock/Royston services are taking up a lot of slack.

 

[farleigh]

If anyone does like the say it see it sort it announcements, the audio file is here for you to enjoy at home.

 

[Aictos]

I've been with GN over ten years, but I don't recall anyone other than Stevenage taking responsibility for the loop.
Stevenage have an exceptionally large area. Shouldn't be like that, but there you go.

Trust me, Enfield Chase used to be responsible for the Loop as the supervisor there would order anything that the Loop stations needed from uniform to stores, this was when a manager was responsible for the entire line from Watton At Stone to Bowes Park until some idiot decided to play musical chairs and move the area of responsibility between various managers so the Hertford Loop had in effect two managers one responsible for Bowes Park to Bayford and the other for Stevenage to Welwyn Garden City/Hatfield plus Hertford and Watton at Stone. When they changed the managers area that's when Stevenage became responsible for the Loop so we're talking least around 2008 minimum!

 

[Hadders]

Good to see that the 365 ‘pullman’ services are operating on Saturday evenings. I’m on one as I write this.

 

[CMS]

Deleted

 

[ungreat]

Route learning was suspended for GN drivers during the first week of the new timetable. There are no plans or timescale for reintroducing it

 

[Fred26]

Trust me, Enfield Chase used to be responsible for the Loop as the supervisor there would order anything that the Loop stations needed from uniform to stores, this was when a manager was responsible for the entire line from Watton At Stone to Bowes Park until some idiot decided to play musical chairs and move the area of responsibility between various managers so the Hertford Loop had in effect two managers one responsible for Bowes Park to Bayford and the other for Stevenage to Welwyn Garden City/Hatfield plus Hertford and Watton at Stone. When they changed the managers area that's when Stevenage became responsible for the Loop so we're talking least around 2008 minimum!

Okay. Someone may have done those jobs, and I'm aware of the management changes that you mention, but whoever that was wasn't a supervisor.

 

[WeGoAgain]

Also a quick question, I hadn't realised that there is now a peak pattern of Baldock terminators, but I cannot seem to work out how these trains reverse? Is there a crossover nearby to the station?

Yes there is, just south of the Platform, taking trains from the Down Line wrong road into the Up Platform.

 

[JonathanH]

I used Thameslink through the core section only today and the service level was not brilliant and the train that I got in the morning continuing to Brighton was full and standing with I think people being left behind after City Thameslink.

From what I could work out the only services running today are:
Bedford - Brighton (2ph)
Bedford - Blackfriars (2ph)
Blackfriars - Sevenoaks (2ph)

You have missed (although they don't go to the core)
London Bridge - Horsham (2tph)
Dartford - Rainham (1tph)
London Kings Cross - Peterborough (2tph)
London Kings Cross - Cambridge (1tph) (alongside other GN services)

Sutton loop seems to be shut for engineering work again.

This is pretty much the expected service on Saturdays for the forseeable future (although the Sutton loop isn't shut every week).

 

[JonathanH]

Point 2 wouldn't have been worthwhile given 2 of the 3 legacy routes south of Blackfriars are mostly 8 cars only. Adding SDO to every single stop would add dwell time (on top of that the trains never stop talking between stops!)

...and also isn't consistent with other bits of infrastructure such as carriage sidings which can only accommodate 8-car trains.

 

[Hadders]

A minor thing, but I have noticed that contra-flow peak skip-stopping in the normal, planned timetable is very, very odd since the May changes. There are trains which run non-stop St Pancras to Luton Parkway (there had only been 1 previously) , trains non-stopping Gatwick or Haywards Heath and a few more skip-stops on the GN side (particularly Letchworth/Baldock terminators). I'm sure these are tactical but they seem very confusing and I imagine they don't save much time. Personally, I think everything should stop at Luton and St Albans City on TL, they have felt like tube stations over the past few years, very busy.

Also a quick question, I hadn't realised that there is now a peak pattern of Baldock terminators, but I cannot seem to work out how these trains reverse? Is there a crossover nearby to the station?

There's always been skip stopping in the peaks on the GN side so that there is capacity for other stations. Otherwise Stevenage commuters would just crowd everything.

 

[43055]

You have missed (although they don't go to the core)
London Bridge - Horsham (2tph)
Dartford - Rainham (1tph)
London Kings Cross - Peterborough (2tph)
London Kings Cross - Cambridge (1tph) (alongside other GN services)

Sutton loop seems to be shut for engineering work again.

This is pretty much the expected service on Saturdays for the forseeable future (although the Sutton loop isn't shut every week).

Thanks. I was only visiting London for the day. I was hoping to to to Greenwich and catch the river boat back to London but there was no direct trains so I just stayed around Southbank and Westminster instead. I wonder is a large part of the changes this weekend was to allow for driver route learning etc so they can run as many services at possible during the week?