Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[gingerheid]

I just wish they'd tell us what's actually happening.

Today they were to run 18 trains from Cambridge to Core, which then became roughly 5 (as of this morning). Only one actually ran.

How can it be that on 19 May they truthfully and in good faith thought they were going to run 18 trains a day, but even now they can only run the sane number as they were running before?

How can it be that this morning they truthfully and in good faith thought they could run 5, when they could only run one, and despite running less of their other trains?

I'm sure this needs explanation. It would make it easier to understand and give us hope if we knew what needed to be done and what was being done.

 

[GoatSarah]

That was always fairly full before the timetable change anyway. Being a 4 car only doesn't help!

Yeah, but this time people, a lot of people, stayed on all the way between Liverpool Street and Cambridge.

 

[jfollows]

A fairly well balanced interview here.

https://twitter.com/MartineBBC/status/1005520452930842624

(Link to Twitter with embedded video with a BBC Interview with Nigel Harris of RAIL magazine)

Thank you for posting that.
I agree, what Nigel was saying made a lot of sense, it's not about blaming people but about sorting things out properly and understanding the reasons behind the mess has to be the first step. I'm not a fan of RAIL but it's improved over time. Like many things I guess.

 

[TimG]

For 30 years, yes undoubtedly, but the impelementation of large scale expansion is causing what will be regarded by most in 5 years time as a hiccup.

Depends how long this goes on for. Is the Sun welcome on Merseyside?

 

[TimG]

Depends how long this goes on for. Is the Sun welcome on Merseyside?

To bout this into context.. the southern debacle of the past few years is NOTHING compared to this.

 

[commuterhel]

Have you come across reason #2145 of why the new timetable cannot be adhered to?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-44411024

I imagine this new BRC700 train will be OOA for some time to come.

 

[TimG]

They've got a few spare, judging by he number seen at three bridges in the peak this AM!

 

[bramling]

Exactly, the Northern Line had the misery line tag years ago but it's long forgotten now and I'm sure Thameslink will be a great success when these problems are resolved. The biggest deterrent to long distance rail travel for many people is getting across London.

The Northern Line was the misery line because at the time its trains were ancient and unreliable, and also due to crew shortages. It’s not so any more because these issues were resolved, in particular new trains.

In other words there was a lot of investment to make things *better* and *resolve* issues. The ThamesLink/ investment has made things *worse* and *created* issues.

 

[Agent_Squash]

The Northern Line was the misery line because at the time its trains were ancient and unreliable, and also due to crew shortages. It’s not so any more because these issues were resolved, in particular new trains.

In other words there was a lot of investment to make things *better* and *resolve* issues. The ThamesLink/ investment has made things *worse* and *created* issues.

Has the ThamesLink/ investment been finished?

 

[bramling]

Has the ThamesLink/ investment been finished?

As far as GN goes, from an infrastructure point of view we seem to have everything we’re going to get. Stevenage bay is primarily for the Hertford service.

Despite being descoped, the investment has failed to deliver its promised deliverables, and has thusfar made things very much worse, and has quite amply demonstrated that the industry is incapable of delivering what was planned.

 

[Busaholic]

Jacob Rees-Mogg just announced as new Transport Secretary. His first policy statement is as follows:- 'I am this evening announcing the Thameslink 1800 programme which will see a replacement horse and carriage service between St Pancras and Blackfriars, Each horse will initially pull eight carriages, but in the fullness if time (perhaps 1900) with productivity improvements this may increase to ten carriages. Electrification of the horses will be on the fairground principle i.e. third rail but, in order to keep everyone on their toes, there will be a mandatory switch to overhead electrification at the most difficult part of the journey, and that will certainly keep the horses on their toes! Carriages will be First Class and Nanny Class, though there will be an open-top carriage devoid of seating for any other person desirous of making the journey in order to provide Jeremy Corbyn with an excuse for yet another photo opportunity, whatever that might be.'

 

[Table 52]

It's my first post in this forum in about a decade, so I'll have a nice rant.

They've spent countless years giving Thameslink stations longer platforms, to allow them in turn to have longer newer trains that even tell you which toilet is available. The Moorgate branch was closed and we got a nice new Farringdon. They've turned London Bridge from one of the biggest bottlenecks in the country into a properly laid out bit of railway, consining long waits on the infamous platform 6 to the bins of history. They built tunnels linking the ECML to St Pancras. They've built a station with entrances both sides of the Thames!

Yet, somehow, over the many many years this other work has been going on, someone forgot that they've needed to get drivers trained up to actually drive the trains. It beggars belief that all this time, effort, money (and disruption to the public) has given us some great infrastructure, but nobody has bothered to invest in the manpower to use it.

The people responsible need to be publicly buggered with a fish, on prime time TV (right after Love Island) each and every day until a proper timetable is delivered.

 

[gingerheid]

The seem to be less 700s kicking around Cambridge today. I hope that's a good sign!

 

[maniacmartin]

The new paint job in the BBC News article linked up thread seems much more in keeping with the service that GTR provide.

On a more serious, someone must be held accountable for the shambles that Thameslink has become. I cannot fathom how no one senior knew of the driver training issue. It sounds to me like GTR wanted to do things on the cheap and wing it, as usual.

 

[the Rat]

The people responsible need to be publicly buggered with a fish, on prime time TV (right after Love Island) each and every day until a proper timetable is delivered.

Ha, ha, beautifully put. I'd certainly tune in. But this does raise a serious question, namely what would be the best fish to use? I'm not sure I'll get away with posting a new thread with words 'fish', 'forcefully', 'insert' and '*rse' in...

 

[Failed Unit]

Be interested on

1. How much we have lost because of this in terms of revenue? No-one uses the service anymore unless they have no choice preferring to drive to north London at weekends. (How we will look back at struggling to get onto a 4 Car 387 with happiness)

2. How much GTR have lost.

I suspect as it is a management contract 2 is around £0. In fact wouldn’t surprise me if GTR are making a profit out of this.

This morning. 0802 WGC - London Kx delayed. It was in the sidings following its shunt from the inbound. The 0754 left on time from platform 4. If they can’t even turn trains around what hope does the full timetable have?

I see the buses between Stevenage and WGC in journey planners now. Timed for when the train should depart Stevenage rather than when due at WGC. Not good if you work there. In the case of one the train scheduled to leave 30 Mins after the bus beats it. Although the bus is probably safe, trains are still cancelled at 0 notice.

Lots of trains in Hornsey. Unheard of at this time pre-change.

 

[Table 52]

Ha, ha, beautifully put. I'd certainly tune in. But this does raise a serious question, namely what would be the best fish to use? I'm not sure I'll get away with posting a new thread with words 'fish', 'forcefully', 'insert' and '*rse' in...

Ive got you covered.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/hypothetical-question-the-best-type-of-fish.165723/

 

[jon0844]

The people responsible need to be publicly buggered with a fish, on prime time TV (right after Love Island) each and every day until a proper timetable is delivered.

Why not force them to watch Love Island? Or would that be a step too far?

 

[Table 52]

Why not force them to watch Love Island? Or would that be a step too far?

Sadly that would be classed as abuse of their human rights.

 

[the Rat]

Ive got you covered.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/hypothetical-question-the-best-type-of-fish.165723/

You're a star. I'll spend some time considering the options, but I'm tempted by wrasse because of the rhyming possibilities - "Good Evening, and welcome to Wrasse Up The *rse", etc

 

[the Rat]

Sadly that would be classed as abuse of their human rights.

Beat me to it again!!

 

[NorthKent1989]

No Thameslink Rainham service for 3 1/2 hours according to this, three trains cancelled

 

[AndyY]

About half an hour ago, the live departure board showed that southbound trains from ELS at 09:31, 09:39 were cancelled. The next train was 10:28.

Checked again just now and 10:01, 10:09 had materialised out of thin air!

How am I supposed to make any plans of getting to work with a timetable which they make up as they go along?
This is worse than the bad old days of 2016.

I am really glad that I can do most of my job remotely. Had I needed to travel to office each day, I would be in serious trouble by now.
I wonder if those who lost their jobs due to the train service can sue GTR for compensation?

 

[AM9]

About half an hour ago, the live departure board showed that southbound trains from ELS at 09:31, 09:39 were cancelled. The next train was 10:28.

Checked again just now and 10:01, 10:09 had materialised out of thin air!

How am I supposed to make any plans of getting to work with a timetable which they make up as they go along?
This is worse than the bad old days of 2016.

I am really glad that I can do most of my job remotely. Had I needed to travel to office each day, I would be in serious trouble by now.
I wonder if those who lost their jobs due to the train service can sue GTR for compensation?

Yes of course, - if your evidence presented to the court was sound enough to prove GTR's culpability. Otherwise, you would lose you money.

 

[47421]

"Yes of course, - if your evidence presented to the court was sound enough to prove GTR's culpability. Otherwise, you would lose you money."

Of course in civil case proving is on the balance of probabilities, ie more likely than not, so even where evidence is far from conclusive decent chance claim will succeed.
It will be very interesting to see if any Consumer Rights Act s49 failure to provide contracted service with due care and skill claims are pursued in relation to GTR advertising a service it seems they had no prospect of actually delivering.

And as regards "you would lose money", yes you would but claims up to £10000 are in small claims court, where the court fee is low (starting £35 rising to max £410 for claims up to £10000, added to damages award if you win), and costs awards against consumer claimants are rare (basically only if you pursue hopeless cases to harass people). Also court will be local to consumer claimant, not defendant which adds to inconvenience to defend. And can start claim in few minutes using moneyclaimonline.

I am BTW not suggesting it is entirely straightforward, any litigation is a hassle, and can easily take more time and effort than it is worth. But it is a lot more straightforward than many people realise, especially in the small claims court, which are set up for consumer use with no legal advisors and generally are often sympathetic to consumers who have been treated badly.

My guess GTR will quietly settle claims rather than go to trouble of defending them (they will no doubt have to instruct lawyers, cost irrecoverable, and will have to travel to court), and run risk of an adverse precedent that will encourage more claims. But that is just speculation

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Ha, ha, beautifully put. I'd certainly tune in. But this does raise a serious question, namely what would be the best fish to use? I'm not sure I'll get away with posting a new thread with words 'fish', 'forcefully', 'insert' and '*rse' in...

surely it'd have to be a pike?

 

[theageofthetra]

Ha, ha, beautifully put. I'd certainly tune in. But this does raise a serious question, namely what would be the best fish to use? I'm not sure I'll get away with posting a new thread with words 'fish', 'forcefully', 'insert' and '*rse' in...

Marlin.

 

[talldave]

Ha, ha, beautifully put. I'd certainly tune in. But this does raise a serious question, namely what would be the best fish to use? I'm not sure I'll get away with posting a new thread with words 'fish', 'forcefully', 'insert' and '*rse' in...

"Flounder" would seem appropriate ?

 

[AM9]

"Yes of course, - if your evidence presented to the court was sound enough to prove GTR's culpability. Otherwise, you would lose you money."
... That is just speculation

I doubt whether GTR would risk opening the flood gates of claims without mentioning the DfT's role in the debacle, (and you taking on the crown in small claims court is a whole new challenge).

 

[SA_900]

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