I think it will have a bad name with some people and be seen as a failure.
Do you think that Thameslink has been a success?
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Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018
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Do you think that Thameslink has been a success?
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For 30 years, yes undoubtedly, but the impelementation of large scale expansion is causing what will be regarded by most in 5 years time as a hiccup.
Robert Symonds
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That's not actually true.The first 2 trains to Rainham were cancelled.Im very fortunate that I recently changed my job.If I hadn't I would have been in trouble by now.
Exactly, the Northern Line had the misery line tag years ago but it's long forgotten now and I'm sure Thameslink will be a great success when these problems are resolved. The biggest deterrent to long distance rail travel for many people is getting across London.
NorthKent1989
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I wasn’t even going to risk using the Rainham Thameslink service today, I don’t trust Thameslink to run the service, things weren’t perfect under South Eastern but it was reliable at least.
True, I too hope Thameslink is a success mainly for commuters who have suffered whilst using their services, but you would expect failures to occur years down the line not from the opening date, I think this will take a lot longer to forget, the Northern line was the misery line because the stations were grotty, the trains were very old and it had suffered from years of underinvestment, Thameslink has had support throughout.
I just hope they cut the Medway service to Dartford or Plumstead if it is kept long term.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Maybe. But Cambridge- Kings Cross is a disaster again. The one that should have no impact as the drivers all have route knowledge.... (suspect they don’t all have traction knowledge but GTR won’t adnit that)
700007
Established Member
I think as an infrastructure project so far yes, all of the problems give or take in the last three weeks are in regards to poor management.
Two unusual workings serving Cambridge this morning have been:
0826 Welwyn Garden City to Cambridge North
0850 Cambridge North to Welwyn Garden City
whoosh
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There are route learning videos available for Thameslink drivers to view online as part of their route learning, should they wish. This is useful to go over some of the more complex moves.
Company iPads were issued with this in mind, along with other functions. Not everybody's iPad works properly.
I'll just let that last sentence sink in for those who want to add extra work for a seemingly overburdened I.T. department, with fantasies of Virtual Reality technology.
Even Virtual Reality would require the release of drivers from their normal duties, and still require time in gaining the knowledge required.
It wouldn't help all that much in the circumstances.
Company iPads were issued with this in mind, along with other functions. Not everybody's iPad works properly.
I'll just let that last sentence sink in for those who want to add extra work for a seemingly overburdened I.T. department, with fantasies of Virtual Reality technology.
Even Virtual Reality would require the release of drivers from their normal duties, and still require time in gaining the knowledge required.
It wouldn't help all that much in the circumstances.
Steve Harris
Member
I'm still confused. You stated its been proven that training cancels the service. Can you provide actual proof ? The service is broken for many many reasons as posted in this epic thread.
Of course, but a lot of the time consuming (path consuming) work could be taken 'off' the railway.
I expect in the future this may well be adopted, but there's a large cost beyond just using a 360 degree camera you buy from Amazon. There's the software running with it to offer proper training and monitoring. It's certainly doable IMO - even for the railway that is traditionally slow to adopt new technology.
I doubt even the unions would have issues with it either. In fact, they may well be the ones to push for it.
I believe one of the 700s intended to run a 2Yxx service to KGX has been taken to run a service north, filling a gap in service. I am not sure if another 700 then arrives from Hornsey to form the now cancelled 2Yxx service, or if that's sacrificed (which isn't so bad if you're running 4tph to Moorgate and people can use that with a change at Finsbury Park/H&I).
It's better than getting people downstairs to buses which are going to be slow in the morning traffic or trying to get a taxi when they're mostly booked on school contract work. Many taxi drivers may also not work mornings, having opted to do nights that are arguably more profitable.
Best agree to disagree then fella.
notverydeep
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2Y17 08:32 Welwyn Garden City (WGC) to King's Cross (KGX) was cancelled in consequence. Some sensible prioritization was however undone by incompetent customer communications. My three options in order of preference would be first 2C13 which is the 08:22 to KGX which is a Cambridge slow and is cancelled most days, secondly 2C06 08:26 from WGC to Welwyn North for 1R11 at 08:33 from Welwyn North to KGX as this is only 2 minutes behind 2C13 at KGX, thirdly 2Y17 which should get to KGX 17 minutes after 2C13. In the 'emergency timetable' 2C13 and 2C06 are normally deleted trains - they don't show as cancelled, but just don't show up. 2Y17 has run fairly consistently however. One day last week, 2C13 ran and was shown on National Rail live departures but not on Real Time Trains (RTT) and on the same day 2C06 ran starting from WGC using the stock for 2Y17 which was cancelled in consequence.
Last night and early in the morning real time trains (as it does most mornings now) did not show 2C06 or 2C13 and did show 2Y17 as running, so I head for 2Y17. On route to the station, I check live departures and now it says 2Y17 is cancelled, but there is an 08:29 to King's Cross, which it says is "on time" and between Knebworth and Welwyn North. I initially presumed this was a train from further out with a special stops, but am perplexed by the live departures detail as it seems to be essentially 2C13 timed to run 7 minutes later and starting at Cambridge North. On the way to the station I follow the line for a while and I can see a 700 stop in platform 2 southbound at roughly 08:23 and leave. As I reach the station I see that 2C06 has run after all and is leaving - and of course 2Y17 is now cancelled. The train at 08:23 seems to be 2C13 after all in its normal timings, though RTT gives no actual times before Royston. Of Live Departures odd 08:29, there is no sign and it disappears from that list at that time, its suggestion of train between Knebworth and Welwyn North was clearly spurious!
Clearly quite a few other people have seen this on Live Departures as they are 'discussing' this with the revenue staff with some raised voices and muttering. In terms of speeding up their journey, that of course is "as effective as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubble gum" (Mary Schmich). Presumably someone, somewhere tried to reinstate 2C13 in the system that feeds Live Departures and made a mess of it. So the next Moorgate it is and to add insult to injury, the next Cambridge Slow, 2C15 (the 08:52 from WGC to KGX), arrives at Finsbury Park at the same time. I (and a fair number of others) are half an hour late for work (I know many have it far worse than this), because even on the off occasion when both my first and second options are actually running for once, this information is seemingly kept from any one who might make use of it...
So it seems that Live Departures can't be relied on either - I had already worked out that Real Time Trains did not show many of the reinstated trains and never picks up additional station calls. Even the normal Open Trains map of the are seems to struggle, with many trains 'persisting' in berths long after they have past that location.
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I've had a go at processing the TRUST data to produce a benchmark of sorts - specifically the number of TL services departing St Pancras LL (ie, going through the core) between 0700-0901 Mon-Fri. According to the original timetable this was meant to be 36 trains in each direction (18tph) but as you can see it is somewhat lower! I'm not even sure what they're actually aiming for currently.
(Date, DOWN departures from 0700-0901, UP departures from 0700-0901)
2018-05-24: 30 31
2018-05-25: 15 28
2018-05-28: 15 15
2018-05-29: 26 21
2018-05-30: 21 18
2018-05-31: 23 21
2018-06-01: 24 19
2018-06-04: 19 21
2018-06-05: 21 23
2018-06-06: 22 21
2018-06-07: 18 22
2018-06-08: 23 23
(It seems they did surprisingly well on May 24th, never since repeated...)
(Date, DOWN departures from 0700-0901, UP departures from 0700-0901)
2018-05-24: 30 31
2018-05-25: 15 28
2018-05-28: 15 15
2018-05-29: 26 21
2018-05-30: 21 18
2018-05-31: 23 21
2018-06-01: 24 19
2018-06-04: 19 21
2018-06-05: 21 23
2018-06-06: 22 21
2018-06-07: 18 22
2018-06-08: 23 23
(It seems they did surprisingly well on May 24th, never since repeated...)
GoatSarah
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Well I left Eastbourne heading for Cambridge 18 minutes ago. Looked at Haywards Heath departure board and there's nothing about Cambridge in there for at least the next two hours. Not even a "cancelled" - GTR seem to be pretending the services they want to run simply never existed.
So I guess I'm on this to Victoria. Not sure whether to head for Liverpool Street or Kings Cross after that. Are Great Northern running Cambridge services OK today? I don't believe what the departure boards are telling me.
ETA: Pulling into Haywards Heath, the driver mentions "Thameslink services to Bedford" but maintains the fiction that TL certainly never expected to have services on the ECML by not mentioning it. I wonder if this is now company policy?
So I guess I'm on this to Victoria. Not sure whether to head for Liverpool Street or Kings Cross after that. Are Great Northern running Cambridge services OK today? I don't believe what the departure boards are telling me.
ETA: Pulling into Haywards Heath, the driver mentions "Thameslink services to Bedford" but maintains the fiction that TL certainly never expected to have services on the ECML by not mentioning it. I wonder if this is now company policy?
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GoatSarah
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Given it took my 2 hours to get to London on Friday via GN, that's not a bad idea.
GoatSarah
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So I’m on the 15:28 LST-CMB. It’s full. A lot fuller than I expected. Chatting to other passengers. Lots going all the way to Cambridge. Lots saying they no longer trust Great Northern.
It’s quite a thing to behold.
It’s quite a thing to behold.
The train I picked up yesterday evening from Bishops Stortford to Cambridge was much busier than usual too. Usually they are fairly deserted at that end of the line on a Sunday evening.
As an aside, the new 'weekend' super-off-peak GA-only Travelcards are nicely priced, but getting one takes you back to the old problem we get whenever a new ticket is introduced - barriers not programmed for it. Cambridge and LUL barriers were fine, but they don't seem to work anywhere else (including, err, Tottenham Hale and Liverpool Street
But I digress...
That was always fairly full before the timetable change anyway. Being a 4 car only doesn't help!
It has run to East Croydon from Horsham a few times - came back at 20:46 after stabling in the reversing siding on the east side of the Windmill Bridge complex.
If it makes Blackfriars it forms an additional 20:13 back to Horsham (ie effectively the 20:24 to Horsham) but is routed via Streatham / Norbury rather than London Bridge.
Unfortunately, the stock for it today hasn't run on its previous working so it is all cancelled.
It did appear to run last Wednesday.
9J43 1454 Peterborough to Horsham 1742
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W64323/2018/06/06/advanced
9J58 1755 Horsham to London Blackfriars 1906 (actually via Tulse Hill and arrived 1928)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O06094/2018/06/06/advanced
9J59 2017 London Blackfriars to Horsham
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O06084/2018/06/06/advanced
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tsr
Established Member
Trying to terminate at London Blackfriars from the London Bridge side would be "interesting"! Thus running via E&C is the only sensible option, really.
If the service only ran to London Bridge via New Cross Gate, or to East Croydon, it wouldn't require any knowledge beyond the basics which Horsham drivers already have, so that would be the most sensible idea. Anything else means they may be in a spot of bother!
However, on a wider note, I do think we are seeing a little more stability today on those services which are actually advertised correctly as running, and looking at internal messaging, the last few days have definitely seen a closer grasp of resources available, even though TL is clearly miles and miles away from the reliability which is needed (as you all know, I will not hide my acknowledgement of that!). Dare I say it, from this week onwards, perhaps we will find TL will ever so gradually turn a corner, as the last several weeks may well have been enough time for a trickle of new routes to be signed by some drivers who have potentially already been learning since the weeks just before the timetable change. Obviously this will have been hit by the huge numbers of cancellations preventing in-cab route learning and causing a lot of frustration.
If the service only ran to London Bridge via New Cross Gate, or to East Croydon, it wouldn't require any knowledge beyond the basics which Horsham drivers already have, so that would be the most sensible idea. Anything else means they may be in a spot of bother!
However, on a wider note, I do think we are seeing a little more stability today on those services which are actually advertised correctly as running, and looking at internal messaging, the last few days have definitely seen a closer grasp of resources available, even though TL is clearly miles and miles away from the reliability which is needed (as you all know, I will not hide my acknowledgement of that!). Dare I say it, from this week onwards, perhaps we will find TL will ever so gradually turn a corner, as the last several weeks may well have been enough time for a trickle of new routes to be signed by some drivers who have potentially already been learning since the weeks just before the timetable change. Obviously this will have been hit by the huge numbers of cancellations preventing in-cab route learning and causing a lot of frustration.
Relatively, perhaps. But I’m currently on what should be the 1941 off Cambridge to Kings Lynn, which just left CBG 43 minutes late and is to be terminated early at Downham Market. (For the third weekday running, the last GA Kings Lynn service rides to the rescue...)
A fairly well balanced interview here.
https://twitter.com/MartineBBC/status/1005520452930842624
(Link to Twitter with embedded video with a BBC Interview with Nigel Harris of RAIL magazine)
https://twitter.com/MartineBBC/status/1005520452930842624
(Link to Twitter with embedded video with a BBC Interview with Nigel Harris of RAIL magazine)
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