Thameslink Programme, South Central & South Eastern area fleet cascades etc

[westcoaster]

not rail ....

because the mml is closed/blocked north of bedford just 1 tph betwen st.pancras-bedford for emt , so the fcc services are going into st.p instead of terminating at kentish town.

 

[class 313]

not rail ....

because the mml is closed/blocked north of bedford just 1 tph betwen st.pancras-bedford for emt , so the fcc services are going into st.p instead of terminating at kentish town.

Thats what I thought, if only I had my camera with me :neutral:

 

[Edvid]

Found another pic of 202 on the rounds - this time it's a close(ish)-up at Bedford station.

I've also asked FCC whether the seating layout of the new 377/5s has been confirmed or not.

 

[Edvid]

FCC's response is that they have no further information so I've asked Southern this time. By the way, the Thameslink Rolling Stock Qualitative research document has been published by Passenger Focus, and it's about what passengers want in the NGEMUs.

 

[Edvid]

So far I've only found two videos of 377202 on the Midland Main Line. The first video was taken near St Albans City (the unit is seen for 5 seconds between 2:44 and 2:49), while the second video was taken at West Hamsptead Thameslink and was much closer.

 

[paul1609]

Is this plan still going ahead? A contact at Southern reckons its all deadly quiet since the bill for Signalling Immunisation on the Brighton Line landed on the Dfts desk. This is needed to allow networkers to take over the East Grinstead services. Alledgedly the bill is well over £ 100 million as it requires basically every track circuit between Clapham Junction and East Grinstead Replaced! If you compare driver training on 442s to 377s on FCC it doesnt seem very likely much will happen in December.

 

[Edvid]

The DafT East Grinstead Networker plan was killed off by the second order of 377/5s made 6 months ago - as far as the Key Output 0 service is concerned anyway. (Since then NSR/FCC decided all 377/5s would be sub-leased instead of a mixture of 377/(2,5)s)

As for the Key Output 1 service, well...no-one actually knows what (and how much) additional stock will be acquired. Not even DafT, whose current stance is that:
19 465s will backfill 19 377s retrofitted with AC equipment and sub-leased to FCC, and that FCC will get 44 vehicles as part of the Rolling Stock Plan. [In case you're wondering, the idea is that the plans contradict each other, hence the uncertainty. Unfortunately DafT won't yet elaborate (even to persons such as Roger Ford) due to commercial confidentiality - in other words they're clueless!]

 

[paul1609]

To be honest I can see the 377/2 being quietly returned to Southern and Southeastern taking over some of FCC paths. I reckon FCC will eventually become part of a greater South- Eastern Franchise.

 

[class 313]

To be honest I can see the 377/2 being quietly returned to Southern and Southeastern taking over some of FCC paths. I reckon FCC will eventually become part of a greater South- Eastern Franchise.

The 377 regularly makes trips on Southern as well as FCC.

 

[paul1609]

Maybe but take a 50 odd mile trip off peak down to Eastbourne on Southern and its likely that you will see 2 442s on driver training turns for 12 services a day starting in December. Take a trip to bedford and you might if your lucky see the 377 sitting in a siding- lets face it 377 public services are not going to be starting anytime soon on Thameslink.

 

[westcoaster]

Maybe but take a 50 odd mile trip off peak down to Eastbourne on Southern and its likely that you will see 2 442s on driver training turns for 12 services a day starting in December. Take a trip to bedford and you might if your lucky see the 377 sitting in a siding- lets face it 377 public services are not going to be starting anytime soon on Thameslink.

someone obviously is not doing there homework:roll:, 377 is out and about most days on driver training runs, think it is about 2/3 drivers a week learning them.

 

[class 313]

someone obviously is not doing there homework:roll:, 377 is out and about most days on driver training runs, think it is about 2/3 drivers a week learning them.

This is true.

There just isn't the same amount of froth that follows 442s which is a good thing as it means we can just do our own things quietly. 8)

Fact is the 377 is out pretty much out every day expect Sunday as its on a SX diagram. Stopping at several stations on route with the PIS systems also being tested. You will be a narrow minded fool if you think the 377s wont be on Thameslink for passenger services soon.

 

[djw1981]

narrow minded fool

I am amused at this choice of insult in this context..... Either wya, it is good to see the DfT mess of dual voltage units and cascades start to fall into place.

 

[Edvid]

To be honest I can see the 377/2 being quietly returned to Southern...

I can't see that happening. At least not until the first 377/5 is ready for testing and is sub-leased to FCC at the least, which will happen either in October or November.

...and Southeastern taking over some of FCC paths. I reckon FCC will eventually become part of a greater South- Eastern Franchise.

I've no idea how you came up with the notion that the Thameslink network will fall into relative insignificance, especially in light of its future expansion. Whether or not a future franchise will cover both the fully expanded Thameslink network and other parts of the Southern Region is another matter and one that won't be decided on for years.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Changing the subject slightly, your comments on driver training have already been replied to but I will also mention that while Southern have access to 17 442s that won't be in passenger service for another 3 months, FCC are relying on Southern to take one of their own 377/2s out of passenger service for months.

And there are still 7 442s stabled at Eastleigh doing nothing. But that's another matter.

 

[class 313]

Either wya, it is good to see the DfT mess of dual voltage units and cascades start to fall into place.

Why do you think that?

 

[Edvid]

In the last 10-odd days I have seen 202 on the move a few times, but I hadn't seen it up close until 2 days ago at Farringdon (after the Meridian I was on overtook it at Cricklewood earlier that morning). Next time you're travelling, check out the departure boards and keep an eye out for the destination 'HERNHSD', because that means you may well find the Electrostar heading in your direction.

According to Philip Simpkins of UKmodernEMU, it was given the same diagram yesterday and the day before that, leaving Bedford at 0851 and arriving by 1530. Hmmm, that means I could have seen it pass Luton Airport Parkway if I got there 10 minutes earlier, but never mind...

 

[westcoaster]

HERNHSD is the new turn back facility adjacent to herne hill station.

 

[Edvid]

Ah, I did wonder if Herne Hill had something to do with that phrase. That reminds me, as 202 approached Farringdon it was announced as a First Capital Connect service (no destination), calling at London Blackfriars and being formed of 8 cars

 

[Waverley125]

assuming the 365s will continue to run LKX-Pboro/Camb and LLS-Kings Lynn?

 

[Edvid]

Certainly for the next 7 years in their current numbers, and even after some post-December 2015 GN services are diverted to destinations south of Central London (via London St Pancras, which requires the new purpose-built stock being specified right now), 365s will still be employed for the residual GN services into London King's Cross.

 

[Edvid]

202 must have left Bedford at a similar time today, as I snapped it at Luton Airport Parkway just before 9.15am. I'll upload the picture later tonight if possible (although it's not of the best quality).

 

[Edvid]

As promised, I've attached my picture. Apologies for the delay.

 

[paul1609]

This is true.

There just isn't the same amount of froth that follows 442s which is a good thing as it means we can just do our own things quietly. 8)

Fact is the 377 is out pretty much out every day expect Sunday as its on a SX diagram. Stopping at several stations on route with the PIS systems also being tested. You will be a narrow minded fool if you think the 377s wont be on Thameslink for passenger services soon.

As a "narrow minded fool" perhaps you could enlighten me how many 377/5s FCC will have in service when the new timetable starts in 7 weeks time?

 

[class 313]

As a "narrow minded fool" perhaps you could enlighten me how many 377/5s FCC will have in service when the new timetable starts in 7 weeks time?

I said soon, FCC hope to get them running by March 2009 IIRC or before then. I'm sure its been posted in this thread.

Either way, you're suggesting that the 377s wouldn't be running by the time they are meant to.

 

[Edvid]

Time to plug Tom's recently uploaded vid of 202 at St Albans - before he does!

 

[class 313]

Time to plug Tom's recently uploaded vid of 202 at St Albans - before he does!

Just beat me

Thanks though

 

[Edvid]

An update from John Atkinson of the Thameslink/UKmodernEMU/southernrailway Yahoo Groups:

Hello all
.
I understand that the first 377/5 is due for delivery
about 17-11-08 and will undergo commissioning runs
coupled with 377202. The remainder will be commissioned
in pairs, and the last one (377523) is due for delivery in
March 2009.

If you're lucky, you might be able to take a pic of the unique SN/FCC liveried 377 formation. After that, it's FCC colours all the way unless a swap with SN-liveried 377s is made (for whatever reason and length) in future.

 

[class 313]

Well if someone can get a diagram, then I will able to get the shots

 

[Edvid]

Saw 202 again - this time doing approx 80mph(?) on the down fast through St Albans this afternoon (Nov 11).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And again at Luton Airport Parkway about 2 hours ago (Nov 12). With another train coming from the opposite direction I would have missed it were it not for the two-tone.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And again at City Thameslink this morning (Nov 13)! OK, I'll leave it at that for the rest of the week.

 

[westcoaster]

think southern will be doing all of the commissioning as they are southern units, plus it will be childs play to them with all the previous 377 accepted into service, ac can be tested at selhurst depot but not moving very far.

319's+377's iirc will only stay around 4-5 years, then a total new build will be brought in, speculation these units will be of a fixed formation 8/12 car cutting out space for 2 cabs.