Thameslink Programme, South Central & South Eastern area fleet cascades etc

[Edvid]

Any train that is designed to accomodate 25kV AC and 750V DC equipment (or just the former) is labelled 3xx regardless of whether it is fitted with one or both systems. All 375s/377s fit into this group but only 375/6s and 377/2s have both systems, and even then only the latter actually use AC in passenger service.

That said, 444s, 450s and 458s are also designed to accommodate AC equipment if required (despite the 4xx group traditionally consisting of DC only rolling stock) - in fact there is an HSE ruling that all new trains must be designed to accommodate AC equipment.

 

[will1337]

Ah, okay thanks. That cleared it up, I knew about the 444/450 being designed to have both as well which added to the confusion.

 

[jopsuk]

HSE ruling? Really? I wouldn't have thought it would be an issue of either Health or Safety. Might be some sort of Network Rail/Rail Regulator/DfT ruling though. Unless you can enlighten otherwise.

 

[332 > 444]

So, with all this GN/TL crossover, will the 365s ever regain their shoes? Would make sense (to me that is) to my suprise these have disabled toilets, so the are DDA complaint in that respect.

 

[Edvid]

HSE ruling? Really? I wouldn't have thought it would be an issue of either Health or Safety. Might be some sort of Network Rail/Rail Regulator/DfT ruling though. Unless you can enlighten otherwise.

Well...now I'm not so sure whose ruling it is, but it definitely exists. Perhaps I confused myself with the HSE (or ORR) ruling on third-rail networks - new third-rail installations are permitted provided that they are extensions of an existing third-rail network.

So, with all this GN/TL crossover, will the 365s ever regain their shoes?

Certainly not for the purpose of accessing the Thameslink network. A requirement of all Thameslink trains is that they have doors on the cab ends, which 365s lack.

Would make sense (to me that is) to my suprise these have disabled toilets, so the are DDA complaint in that respect.

The early generation of on-board disabled toilets were manufactured before the RVAR 1998 rules (now superceded by DDA 2005). That includes those on 365s, and they're not DDA-compliant by the way.

 

[Edvid]

According to a member to the UKmodernEMU Yahoo Group (info cross-posted to the Thameslink Yahoo Group as well), if all goes well then 377202 [5Z01, 00:15] will travel from Selhurst to Bedford within the hour. The thread title on Yahoo is self-explanatory - 377202 to Bedford

 

[class 313]

According to a member to the UKmodernEMU Yahoo Group (info cross-posted to the Thameslink Yahoo Group as well), if all goes well then 377202 [5Z01, 00:15] will travel from Selhurst to Bedford within the hour. The thread title on Yahoo is self-explanatory - 377202 to Bedford

Thanks again for that! But will there be any daylight testing?

But if you mean 377s in a whole, then you're wrong. 377s have been dragged up to Derby before.

Under their own power though? I'm not so sure!

 

[Edvid]

Yes, I see that I forgot to mention the 'own power' bit. I don't know if 202 is ready to set off yet (yes, under its own power), but a couple of 377/2s did have their AC equipment tested on the Midland Main Line back in August 2004. I kid you not.

No daylight testing has been planned yet - if the initial move is a success then 202 will be tested along the MML over the next few nights. When further info is initially published on the UKmodernEMU Yahoo Group (not by me) it'll be made available on the TL Yahoo Group or here first thereafter.

 

[class 313]

Yes, I see that I forgot to mention the 'own power' bit. I don't know if 202 is ready to set off yet (yes, under its own power), but a couple of 377/2s did have their AC equipment tested on the Midland Main Line back in August 2004. I kid you not.

No daylight testing has been planned yet - if the initial move is a success then 202 will be tested along the MML over the next few nights. When further info is initially published (not by me) it'll be available on the TL Yahoo Group or here first.

Well I signed up to the group as you may know! But me and my mate are planning to go to Luton to get some shots there. We are resident MML 'veg'

 

[Edvid]

I can't see how else you could have reminded me of the 377s being dragged to/from Derby :-P

For now self-powered 377s on the MML will be as rare as hens' teeth, so good luck. You'll need it.

 

[class 313]

I can't see how else you could have reminded me of the 377s being dragged to/from Derby :-P

For now self-powered 377s on the MML will be as rare as hens' teeth, so good luck. You'll need it.

Well I'll try and ask someone for the headcodes for them .

I only ever saw 1 drag! And that's when I was playing tennis at the Radlett Tennis club which backs onto the line!

 

[westcoaster]

no luck needed 377202 made it all the way to bedford and is currently in the carriage sidings (pan up )where she has sat all day, i think all test runs will be done during the night?

 

[Andrew Tiffin]

First Capital Connect is getting a new station and it is managed by Southern called Mitcham Eastfields.

 

[class 313]

First Capital Connect is getting a new station and it is managed by Southern called Mitcham Eastfields.

Already open and being served.

 

[westcoaster]

Already open and being served.

ummmm:? not open yet mate delayed until further notice, doo monitors just gone in and station building a fair way away from being finished.

 

[class 313]

ummmm:? not open yet mate delayed until further notice, doo monitors just gone in and station building a fair way away from being finished.

Oh? I read that it was open :???:

 

[jacknottm]

Posted on another board this morning was that 377202 is to work a 5Z01 0015 Selhurst - Bedford tonight for testing/familiarisation.

Jack

 

[vc-10]

Last saturday I saw something in Southern's livery pull into Bedford. It was coupled to something in the old Thameslink colours. I'm short sighted, and was waiting to race at Bedford Regatta (I row), so couldn't tell which types they were, as I was on the river further towards the town centre. I'm not sure if we were north or south of Bedford station, south I think.. I presume that this was a 377? It was around 2pm. Certainly no earlier than 1:30...

 

[class 313]

Posted on another board this morning was that 377202 is to work a 5Z01 0015 Selhurst - Bedford tonight for testing/familiarisation.

Jack

According to a member to the UKmodernEMU Yahoo Group (info cross-posted to the Thameslink Yahoo Group as well), if all goes well then 377202 [5Z01, 00:15] will travel from Selhurst to Bedford within the hour. The thread title on Yahoo is self-explanatory - 377202 to Bedford

Last saturday I saw something in Southern's livery pull into Bedford. It was coupled to something in the old Thameslink colours. I'm short sighted, and was waiting to race at Bedford Regatta (I row), so couldn't tell which types they were, as I was on the river further towards the town centre. I'm not sure if we were north or south of Bedford station, south I think.. I presume that this was a 377? It was around 2pm. Certainly no earlier than 1:30...

That would be a 319! We have 12 of them from Southern.

 

[thelem]

That would be a 319! We have 12 of them from Southern.

Although not all in Southern livery! (I'm sure there is logic to it somehow..)

 

[class 313]

Although not all in Southern livery! (I'm sure there is logic to it somehow..)

4 out the 12 don't.

 

[Edvid]

no luck needed 377202 made it all the way to bedford and is currently in the carriage sidings (pan up )where she has sat all day, i think all test runs will be done during the night?

That is the plan.
UPDATE - Speak of the devil...that was quick!
Provided it stays at Cricklewood for long enough on Friday I'll probably see it for myself.

Oh? I read that it was open:?

The expected opening date is now 1/2 June. There's some useful background information on it by U Thant of londonconnections.blogspot.com fame.

Although not all in Southern livery! (I'm sure there is logic to it somehow..)

The Southern 319s were outshopped in the Southern livery during 2006/2007 as they were subjected to C6 exams at the time (and at the time they were keen to keep them rather then lend more to TL/FCC). The only Southern 319s that aren't Southern green are 001 (was white with blue doors, now in FCC livery), 006 (was in Southern livery but has joined 001), 007 (as per 006) and 010 (still blue with yellow doors).

 

[Tom C]

no luck needed 377202 made it all the way to bedford and is currently in the carriage sidings (pan up )where she has sat all day, i think all test runs will be done during the night?

At least it made it this time, when the tests were done a couple of years ago it came to grief at Cricklewood and had to be moved out of the way after developing a fault on one of the nights. They did a stopping test on the loop after 2V57 ran though, stopping at each station to ensure length isn't a problem. Tooting, Haydons Road and all stations from Wimbledon Chase to West Sutton are done with the 8th coach locked out and more bizarely at Wimbledon the back 4 so some work will need to be done with the ever reliable GPS system. The most strange thing is none of these stations have short platforms and an 8 coach does fit - Just!

 

[class 313]

At least it made it this time, when the tests were done a couple of years ago it came to grief at Cricklewood and had to be moved out of the way after developing a fault on one of the nights. They did a stopping test on the loop after 2V57 ran though, stopping at each station to ensure length isn't a problem. Tooting, Haydons Road and all stations from Wimbledon Chase to West Sutton are done with the 8th coach locked out and more bizarely at Wimbledon the back 4 so some work will need to be done with the ever reliable GPS system. The most strange thing is none of these stations have short platforms and an 8 coach does fit - Just!

I would of thought the 377s would be more concentrated on being ran on the Brighton's but knowing how the 319s end up, I guess 377s can see their way onto the loop!

 

[Edvid]

At least it made it this time, when the tests were done a couple of years ago it came to grief at Cricklewood and had to be moved out of the way after developing a fault on one of the nights.

That's the first time I've heard of 377s being driven on the MML between August 2004 and this week.

They did a stopping test on the loop after 2V57 ran though, stopping at each station to ensure length isn't a problem. Tooting, Haydons Road and all stations from Wimbledon Chase to West Sutton are done with the 8th coach locked out and more bizarely at Wimbledon the back 4 so some work will need to be done with the ever reliable GPS system. The most strange thing is none of these stations have short platforms and an 8 coach does fit - Just!

Interesting stuff. Do Southern send 377s to call at any of the Wimbledon Loop stations at the moment?

 

[class 313]

Interesting stuff. Do Southern send 377s to call at any of the Wimbledon Loop stations at the moment?

I think they use 455s for their peak service round the loop.

 

[Tom C]

That's the first time I've heard of 377s being driven on the MML between August 2004 and this week.

Did say a few years ago lol, time flys when you are having fun!

I think they use 455s for their peak service round the loop

Nope!

06:27 off Tooting is an 2x455
06:57 is 456/455 (456 leading)
07:25 (ish) is (or was) 2x319
07:56 is 2 x 455
08:27 is 2 x 455
08:46 (ish) is 2 x 377
17:51 is 456/455 (456 leading)
18:21 is 455
18:50 is 377

In the last timetable anyway, last year the 06:27 was 2 x 377 every morning

 

[class 313]

Did say a few years ago lol, time flys when you are having fun!



Nope!

06:27 off Tooting is an 2x455
06:57 is 456/455 (456 leading)
07:25 (ish) is (or was) 2x319
07:56 is 2 x 455
08:27 is 2 x 455
08:46 (ish) is 2 x 377
17:51 is 456/455 (456 leading)
18:21 is 455
18:50 is 377

In the last timetable anyway, last year the 06:27 was 2 x 377 every morning

Most are 455s and or have 455s in them.

 

[paul1609]

At least it made it this time, when the tests were done a couple of years ago it came to grief at Cricklewood and had to be moved out of the way after developing a fault on one of the nights. They did a stopping test on the loop after 2V57 ran though, stopping at each station to ensure length isn't a problem. Tooting, Haydons Road and all stations from Wimbledon Chase to West Sutton are done with the 8th coach locked out and more bizarely at Wimbledon the back 4 so some work will need to be done with the ever reliable GPS system. The most strange thing is none of these stations have short platforms and an 8 coach does fit - Just!

The GPS is actually very reliable on Sussex Coast Services and has been for a few years now. I was under the impression that 377/2s dont have the software fitted for SDO.

 

[class 313]

The GPS is actually very reliable on Sussex Coast Services and has been for a few years now. I was under the impression that 377/2s dont have the software fitted for SDO.

Why wouldn't they? 377/2s don't just work the Watford services. I would of thought all the 377s have the software.