Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[bramling]

As you know, I find the current seats on the 700s very comfortable.

Good for you. Lots of people find them extremely uncomfortable.

Trying to please everyone is impossible. This forum has proven this.

That's fine, but how about try to find a design of seat which pleases as many people as possible? The ironing boards clearly don't meet that requirement. With the exception of the Merseyrail-interior class 142s, I can't think of any other seat design used in Britain which I find really objectionable, so I don't think I'm being overly fussy. The ironing boards really are disgusting. Their use on the class 700 is even more objectionable because of the poor legroom.

 

[physics34]

As you know, I find the current seats on the 700s very comfortable. Trying to please everyone is impossible. This forum has proven this.

Next week will see two more 700/0 diagrams introduced with Kent seeing its first services.

I know its subjective but i still find your definition of "very comfortable " bizarre

On your scale, if the seat was a plank of wood you find that comfortable, if it had an extra layer of padding it would be heavenly!!

I fail to see how you think the seating is good enough for st pancras to Worthing for example there and back everyday. I know you have ties with GTR and you never seem to say anything negative about the 700s...maybe you are being protective of your job etc (that is understandable) but surely you can see they are woefully inadequate for those journeys.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I think for a long time now, we've had to get used to "lesser" comfort on rolling stock and we're not far away from going back to the old wooden bench seats of a bygone era (but individual plastic ones)

I remember bouncing around on sprung EPB/HAP and CEP seats - then we had the VEPs with their thinner seats - however, these were more comfortable by comparison with Cl 375 seats. Then those 319s, less comfy than VEP seats but one got used to them. Then the 376's came along and those terrible seats of the Southern refurb 455's....need I say any more...?

However, I do find the seats on a 700 more comfy than a 455 or 376 (and the later 377's) provided I don't sit next to the window

 

[bramling]

However, I do find the seats on a 700 more comfy than a 455 or 376 (and the later 377's) provided I don't sit next to the window

This situation with the window seats on the class 700 is ridiculous. Even people who say they don't mind the seats have criticised the cramped nature of the window seats.

The class 700 interior needs to be completely redesigned to provide additional comfort, and those responsible for the money wasted on the current interior (especially the seats) should be held to account for their error of judgement.

Whilst we're at it, how about a bulk buy of new seats to include the class 387 too?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Don't worry, the DfT listened to our requests. The original interior specification looked something like this...

Yup, bring your own fold-up seats har har
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Next week will see two more 700/0 diagrams introduced with Kent seeing its first services.

Thanks for posting these. Shame the Sevenoaks ones don't start this week..

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Let the fun begin

Interesting to see how the 700's manage on the more "metro" workings , slow lines south of St Albans at places like Elstree / Mill Hill and Kentish Town - the latter being a bad spot for dwell times on very crowded trains.

Should be better with the extra door width - .......

 

[ComUtoR]

Will be interesting to see how they handle the loop passengers. Not sure they have seen a fire extinguisher in a while.

From a stock perspective I do wonder how they will perform in the slip, although we are tail end of the season it hasn't been great the past couple of days and 319's are notoriously bad. Metro working, as you say, will be interesting to see. Stop marks etc might be fun are they are GPS locked out outside the core ? Some of those stations are tight for 8 cars.

Crew wise. All our new diagrams are 319's still so I get that nagging feeling that the usual problems will occur when a unit turns up and we don't sign it. I think they have generally sorted it out over Thameslink side but I still hear various issues and some Drivers end up sitting spare as they still don't sign the units.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Interesting to see how the 700's manage on the more "metro" workings , slow lines south of St Albans at places like Elstree / Mill Hill and Kentish Town - the latter being a bad spot for dwell times on very crowded trains.

Should be better with the extra door width - .......

And the very leafy suburbs down the Catford Loop and into Kent with regard to wet rails and leaf mulch...hopefully they'll have better adhesion

 

[Clip]

Good for you. Lots of people find them extremely uncomfortable.



That's fine, but how about try to find a design of seat which pleases as many people as possible? The ironing boards clearly don't meet that requirement. With the exception of the Merseyrail-interior class 142s, I can't think of any other seat design used in Britain which I find really objectionable, so I don't think I'm being overly fussy. The ironing boards really are disgusting. Their use on the class 700 is even more objectionable because of the poor legroom.

Funny that as I dont find them disgusting on these units nor any others and im quite tall topping out at 6'4.

Of course you must speak to more people on a train than me and ask them about how they find these seats which to be honest I tried to iron me shirt on them the other day but funnily enough then discovered they were not ironing boards at all! Oh how silly I felt. How very silly.

 

[notverydeep]

I believe only Hornsey can clean them IIRC. So why not get the passenger run and get unit back to depot in one go?

Your also assuming the attack was discovered prior to driver arriving to check the stock.

Where I work trains are withdrawn from service on the discovery of significant and / or particularly offensive graffiti, even where it must then run empty to another location to be cleaned.

I had assumed that GTR would have security staff at its stabling locations, making non discovery rare, but perhaps that isn't correct.

 

[jon0844]

We would like to apologise for the cancellation of the 0902 Great Northern service to London King's Cross. This is due to a member of security personnel being unavailable.

 

[Class377/5]

Good for you. Lots of people find them extremely uncomfortable.

That's fine, but how about try to find a design of seat which pleases as many people as possible? The ironing boards clearly don't meet that requirement. With the exception of the Merseyrail-interior class 142s, I can't think of any other seat design used in Britain which I find really objectionable, so I don't think I'm being overly fussy. The ironing boards really are disgusting. Their use on the class 700 is even more objectionable because of the poor legroom.

The argument on here that is often repeated on here shows your universal hate for the 700s is not shared. You seem incapable of understanding that comfort is subjective not fact as you always claim.

I know its subjective but i still find your definition of "very comfortable " bizarre

On your scale, if the seat was a plank of wood you find that comfortable, if it had an extra layer of padding it would be heavenly!!

I fail to see how you think the seating is good enough for st pancras to Worthing for example there and back everyday. I know you have ties with GTR and you never seem to say anything negative about the 700s...maybe you are being protective of your job etc (that is understandable) but surely you can see they are woefully inadequate for those journeys.

No I find wood uncomfortable. It's bizzare you'd make that claim.

Everyone I've been on the train with whose done over an hour on them and isn't interested in the railways has found them fine. Sorry but what I see from people actually do the trips is a far cry from what some on this forum have declared fact.

So no I disagree with you that they woefully inadequate. And I say this as someone who chooses a 700 over anything else if I can and will be a pure 700 commuter come 2017.

Where I work trains are withdrawn from service on the discovery of significant and / or particularly offensive graffiti, even where it must then run empty to another location to be cleaned.

I had assumed that GTR would have security staff at its stabling locations, making non discovery rare, but perhaps that isn't correct.

Most stabling locations do not have security nor do depots.

Note that offensive graffiti is different to what were are talking about here which is standard tagging a. Offensive must be taken out straight away with no messing about.

The point Im making here is running it in service or empty, you still do pretty much the same thing so why not use it for service as long as its not offensive or dangerous? Passengers deserve a good service.

 

[bramling]

Everyone I've been on the train with whose done over an hour on them and isn't interested in the railways has found them fine. Sorry but what I see from people actually do the trips is a far cry from what some on this forum have declared fact.

Sorry but that's not my experience. On the 387s I'm seeing a lot of people commenting on how uncomfortable the seats are. I can't imagine the 700s are any better.

This is the real world, not the Thameslink Dream World.

 

[Class377/5]

Sorry but that's not my experience. On the 387s I'm seeing a lot of people commenting on how uncomfortable the seats are. I can't imagine the 700s are any better.

This is the real world, not the Thameslink Dream World.

Your talking about the 700s that you imagine then accuse me of dreaming when I'm actually talking about real world experiences.

The 387 seats are not the same as the 700 seats. Base maybe the same but the doesn't mean they are identical.

Seems you need to listen more as I've cleared stated personal experiences on real trains in public service rather than you uneducated guesswork based on a different train.

 

[87015]

Most stabling locations do not have security nor do depots.

Note that offensive graffiti is different to what were are talking about here which is standard tagging a. Offensive must be taken out straight away with no messing about.

The point Im making here is running it in service or empty, you still do pretty much the same thing so why not use it for service as long as its not offensive or dangerous? Passengers deserve a good service.

What? If there are known issues why on earth are GTR not getting security. You, know like other operators bother to do...

 

[jon0844]

The only complaint I've heard about from others on a 700 so far is the lack of tables, and to be honest, given the way the two people were talking I rather suspect they had some interest in the railway.

To be honest, I don't hear people saying anything positive about trains either. Most people board, look for a seat and sit in it, then get on their phone or talk to each other if in a group (or a bit of both!).

 

[bramling]

Your talking about the 700s that you imagine then accuse me of dreaming when I'm actually talking about real world experiences.

The 387 seats are not the same as the 700 seats. Base maybe the same but the doesn't mean they are identical.

Seems you need to listen more as I've cleared stated personal experiences on real trains in public service rather than you uneducated guesswork based on a different train.

The seats on the 700s are worse.
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The only complaint I've heard about from others on a 700 so far is the lack of tables, and to be honest, given the way the two people were talking I rather suspect they had some interest in the railway.

To be honest, I don't hear people saying anything positive about trains either. Most people board, look for a seat and sit in it, then get on their phone or talk to each other if in a group (or a bit of both!).

I don't see what difference it makes whether someone has interest in railways or not. Anyone will sit down in a seat and find it comfortable or otherwise, more so the latter in the case of the 387s and 700s it seems.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Funny that as I dont find them disgusting on these units nor any others and im quite tall topping out at 6'4.

Well funny how I keep coming away from journeys on these seats with backache, something I've not experienced from any other type of train seat throughout the UK.

Must be that interest in railways that does it, can't possibly that the seat is cheap rubbish.

 

[jon0844]

The people who commented on the tables were talking a lot about trains so clearly had not only an interest but some knowledge. Other people just don't talk about trains full stop.

About the only comment might be asking if there's a toilet and where they are. Or indeed adding questions about where the train goes and where the train itself is.

 

[Class377/5]

What? If there are known issues why on earth are GTR not getting security. You, know like other operators bother to do...

Not all operators do. Plus it's not at one location so your spending millions sorting it. It's not quite so easy to say this will fix it. And as for security, well there been attacks whilst security has been on site this year at some locations so even that doesn't magically fix the issue.

The seats on the 700s are worse.

In your opinion. In my opinion they are far superior. Only fact is the seats have people divided, everything else is person taste not actually factual statement like you make out to be.

 

[MCR247]

Don't be silly.....

They drew inspiration from here: (Future Class 808, first class to the right)

Wow, just wow

 

[Bald Rick]

Interesting to see how the 700's manage on the more "metro" workings , slow lines south of St Albans at places like Elstree / Mill Hill and Kentish Town - the latter being a bad spot for dwell times on very crowded trains.

Should be better with the extra door width - .......

I was on one on a stopper yesterday, guv. Performed admirably. No slipping at all off each station, and it was uphill in the wet in Autumn. Arrived destination 2E.

Also I saw the platform team clear the train much more quickly than for 319s / 377s. Being able to see through the train, and walk between carriages more easily certainly helps. It was off into the centre siding 2 mins after arrival.

Comfy seat for the 40minute trip as well, at least, that's my opinion, and I didn't hear anyone else moaning

 

[Alteran Ancient]

Looks like I was right about the 28th being the start of the Sevenoaks, then. I found out about a week ago, but kept quiet after Class 377/5 didn't want to divulge anything more specific than "soon".

Very much looking forward to seeing these next week.

 

[Nym]

It's harsh on the Victoria line too.

At least the vic line ATO supports coasting, unlike the Central Line.

 

[Class377/5]

Looks like I was right about the 28th being the start of the Sevenoaks, then. I found out about a week ago, but kept quiet after Class 377/5 didn't want to divulge anything more specific than "soon".

Very much looking forward to seeing these next week.

I was worried as it hadn't been signed off at the time, it might disappoint some. Good to see Kent finally getting some 700 action.

 

[Class2ldn]

Will be interesting to see how they handle the loop passengers. Not sure they have seen a fire extinguisher in a while.

From a stock perspective I do wonder how they will perform in the slip, although we are tail end of the season it hasn't been great the past couple of days and 319's are notoriously bad. Metro working, as you say, will be interesting to see. Stop marks etc might be fun are they are GPS locked out outside the core ? Some of those stations are tight for 8 cars.

Crew wise. All our new diagrams are 319's still so I get that nagging feeling that the usual problems will occur when a unit turns up and we don't sign it. I think they have generally sorted it out over Thameslink side but I still hear various issues and some Drivers end up sitting spare as they still don't sign the units.

You'll find at a lot of stations you are stopping slightly shorter then you would ordinarily do. The board should be at the corner of the front window on the appropriate side, not on the side window as usual so it does feel a bit weird at times.
The Sevenoaks stations have more leeway then the loop anyway on platform lengths.

 

[ComUtoR]

Cheers.

I've noticed the stopping points and seen how to stop effectively. I think our side training is still a long way off. Its been put back again :/

 

[urpert]

Looks like I was right about the 28th being the start of the Sevenoaks, then. I found out about a week ago, but kept quiet after Class 377/5 didn't want to divulge anything more specific than "soon".

Very much looking forward to seeing these next week.

Excellent, can't wait to see the diagrams, especially after 319001 turned up again for me this morning.

 

[Class2ldn]

Cheers.

I've noticed the stopping points and seen how to stop effectively. I think our side training is still a long way off. Its been put back again :/

No more training on ours until January now. It's causing a bit of divide now as lots of people who are untrained are just sitting spare every day while everyone covers their work. Not their fault but it's not pleasing some that's for sure

 

[Class377/5]

Excellent, can't wait to see the diagrams, especially after 319001 turned up again for me this morning.

I put the diagrams up a couple of pages ago.

 

[physics34]

No I find wood uncomfortable. It's bizzare you'd make that claim.

Everyone I've been on the train with whose done over an hour on them and isn't interested in the railways has found them fine. Sorry but what I see from people actually do the trips is a far cry from what some on this forum have declared fact.

So no I disagree with you that they woefully inadequate. And I say this as someone who chooses a 700 over anything else if I can and will be a pure 700 commuter come 2017.

maybe im exaggerating about the plank of wood but i hope you get my point... id dont think anyone could find the seats and the layout very comfortable especially if you are sitting next to someone shoulder to shoulder for 90 mins.

and as ive stated before i only think they are wholly inadequate for longer distance services, they are virtually perfect for Sutton loop and the kent local service.