Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Class377/5]

It doesn't really matter either way. Without any statistics, either side is just speculating.

It may well be that there never were many issues or it could be that the "commentators" are no longer talking about them. We can't really say without evidence.

Oh please that's pathetic. This thread has been purely tactless talk for the most part. I don't recall you questioning them on where there facts were.

So unless you have any imperical evidence you cannot say anything? Better wipe most posts here then.

 

[hwl]

With over 60 units manufactured, 31 delivered (32nd on the way) and only 10? weekday diagrams currently this suggests lots of issues getting rectified behind the scenes]

I suppose it could suggest that to you - it could suggest to others that there is one issue - it could suggest to others that driver training is taking longer than planned for - it could suggest something else - it could suggest nothing
Brian

Introduction of units into service is behind any schedule more than month old I think everyone agrees on that!

I wasn't suggesting that there was one single issue, I strongly suspect there are multiple issues (including driver training) but some data is a good starting point for discussions.

The other interesting number to know would be how many of the 31 in the UK have been accepted and ready for service either driver training or in passenger service.

With 30 units (min. 250 cars) having left the factory but not in the UK and not always assembled as units suggests there is more going on than is public or on this forum.

 

[Class377/5]

Introduction of units into service is behind any schedule more than month old I think everyone agrees on that!

I wasn't suggesting that there was one single issue, I strongly suspect there are multiple issues (including driver training) but some data is a good starting point for discussions.

The other interesting number to know would be how many of the 31 in the UK have been accepted and ready for service either driver training or in passenger service.

With 30 units (min. 250 cars) having left the factory but not in the UK and not always assembled as units suggests there is more going on than is public or on this forum.

There 31 units in the UK, supposed to be another 30 or so stored (properly higher actually) with around 200 bodyshell completed with Siemens chucking out a unit a week at present.

There are various issues and not all are train or staff related either.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

And aside from the 319/387 cascade, where are all the new units going to live upon delivery to the UK and prior to entering service? I can't see there being enough depot/siding space yet....?

 

[Deepgreen]

Oh please that's pathetic. This thread has been purely tactless talk for the most part. I don't recall you questioning them on where there facts were.

So unless you have any imperical evidence you cannot say anything? Better wipe most posts here then.

Did you mean 'fact-less' and 'empirical'?

 

[asylumxl]

Oh please that's pathetic. This thread has been purely tactless talk for the most part. I don't recall you questioning them on where there facts were.

So unless you have any imperical evidence you cannot say anything? Better wipe most posts here then.

Really now? I said numerous times I have had no issues on my trips apart from slow opening doors. You're welcome to check, but I'm sure you won't.

Pathetic is when a grown adult can't use proper spelling or grammar and has some obsessive love for an inanimate object such as a train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Did you mean 'fact-less' and 'empirical'?

We have our leading cryptographers on the case, working tirelessly to crack these coded messages.

 

[Sunset route]

And aside from the 319/387 cascade, where are all the new units going to live upon delivery to the UK and prior to entering service? I can't see there being enough depot/siding space yet....?

You've got all the new sidings at Bedford, Cricklewood, Peterborough and in the new year Horsham plus Horsea depot in the summer. So I don't think we have reached the critical point just yet.

 

[jamieP]

You've got all the new sidings at Bedford, Cricklewood, Peterborough and in the new year Horsham plus Horsea depot in the summer. So I don't think we have reached the critical point just yet.

Dont think there are any new ones at Bedford? Peterborough is only a small one with 6 roads and washer and dont forget Hornsey as well.

 

[Class377/5]

Really now? I said numerous times I have had no issues on my trips apart from slow opening doors. You're welcome to check, but I'm sure you won't.

Pathetic is when a grown adult can't use proper spelling or grammar and has some obsessive love for an inanimate object such as a train.

We have our leading cryptographers on the case, working tirelessly to crack these coded messages.

Well your post has no facts so according to you I'll just ignore you. Especially as your rather rude in your post.

However for the rest of the reasonable people, here's next weeks diagrams including the first 700 to Sutton.

Valid from Monday 31st October we go to 12 diagrams, 3x 700/0 8 cars and 9x 700/1 12 cars

Weekdays

TB401
5W78 03+38 Three Bridge Depot to Three Bridges
1W78 03.46 Three Bridges to Bedford
1V83 06.14 Bedford to Sutton via Wimbledon
2V12 08.08 Sutton to St Albans via Mitcham
5K37 09+31 St Albans to St Albans via Center Siding
2O37 09.44 St Albans to Sutton via Mitcham Junction
2O38 11.07 Sutton to Luton via Wimbledon
2V67 13.14 Luton to Sutton via Wimbledon
2V68 15.08 Sutton to St Albans via Mitcham
5K93 16+29 St Albans to St Albans via Center Siding
2O93 16.44 St Albans to Sutton via Mitcham
2O94 18.11 Sutton to Luton via Wimbledon
2V41 20.20 Luton to Sutton via Wimbledon
5O48 22+12 Sutton to Streatham via Mitcham
5O48 22+31 Streatham to Sutton via Mitcham
2O48 22.47 Sutton to St Bedford via Wimbledon
5G48 01+10 Bedford to Bedford CS

TB402
5W01 05+20 Down Yard to Brighton
1W04 05.44 Brighton to Bedford
1W17 08.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W28 11.35 Brighton to Bedford
2W45 14.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W52 17.05 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W63 19.40 Bedford to Brighton
5W62 22+22 Brighton to Three Bridges Depot

TB403
5G04 04+33 Bedford CS to Bedford
1W03 04.46 Bedford to Brighton
1W12 07.48 Brighton to Bedford
1W25 10.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W36 13.35 Brighton to Bedford
1W49 16.26 Bedford to Brighton
1W60 19.33 Brighton to Bedford
1W73 22.22 Bedford to Brighton
5W73 01+14 Brighton to Down Yard

TB501
5Y91 02+14 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
2W91 02.40 Bedford to Brighton
1B00 05.47 Brighton to London Bridge
1B05 07.12 London Bridge to Brighton
1B10 08.27 Brighton to London Bridge
1B15 09.42 London Bridge to Brighton
1B22 11.02 Brighton to London Bridge
1B25 12.12 London Bridge to Brighton
5B25 13+29 Brighton to Down Yard
5B38 14+42 Down Yard to Brighton
1B38 15.02 Brighton to London Bridge
1B41 16.12 London Bridge to Brighton
1B48 17.32 Brighton to London Bridge
1B51 18.42 London Bridge to Brighton
5W51 20+06 Brighton to Three Bridges Depot

TB502
5W93 05+10 Three Bridges Depot to Three Bridges
2W94 05.20 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W13 07.34 Bedford to Brighton
1W24 10.35 Brighton to Bedford
2W41 13.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
5W92 15+41 Three Bridges to Three Bridges Depot
5W92 15+56 Three Bridges Depot to Three Bridges
1W92 15.59 Three Bridges to Bedford
2W61 18.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W66 20.43 Three Bridges to Bedford
5Y68 23+00 Bedford to Jowett Sidings

TB503
5Y11 06+32 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
1W11 06.58 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W22 09.11 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W29 11.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W40 14.35 Brighton to Bedford
2W57 17.20 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W62 19.43 Three Bridges to Bedford
5Y62 22+00 Bedford to Jowett Sidings

TB504
5W02 05+07 Brighton Down Yard to Brighton
1W02 05.30 Brighton to Bedford
2W21 08.24 Bedford to Three Bridges
5W30 10+41 Three Bridges to Three Bridges Depot
5W30 10+56 Three Bridges Depot to Three Bridges
2W30 10.59 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W37 13.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W96 16.35 Brighton to Bedford
5Y96 19+03 Bedford to Jowett Sidings

TB505
2W84 01.16 Three Bridges to Bedford
5Y84 03+46 Bedford to Bedford via Jowett Sidings
1W01 04.16 Bedford to Brighton
1W82 07.22 Brighton to Bedford
1W23 10.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W34 13.05 Brighton to Bedford
1W45 15.50 Bedford to Brighton
1W56 18.35 Brighton to Bedford
5Y69 21+14 Bedford to Jowett Sidings
5Y69 21+27 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
1W69 21.40 Bedford to Brighton
5W69 00+25 Brighton to Down Yard

TB506
5W06 05+10 Three Bridges Depot to Brighton
1W06 06.06 Brighton to Bedford
2W23 08.54 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W32 11.29 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W39 14.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W80 17.01 Brighton to Bedford
5Y80 19+33 Bedford to Jowett

TB507
5Y93 07+04 Jowett to Bedford
1W93 07.30 Bedford to Brighton
1W22 10.05 Brighton to Bedford
2W39 12.54 Bedford to Three Bridges
5W48 15+09 Three Bridges to Three Bridges via Depot
2W48 15.29 Three Bridges to Bedford
2W59 18.00 Bedford to Gatwick
2W64 20.18 Gatwick to Bedford
2W79 22.40 Bedford to Three Bridges

TB508
5Y85 05+48 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
1W85 06.18 Bedford to Brighton
1W18 09.05 Brighton to Bedford
2W35 11.54 Bedford to Three Bridges
2W44 14.29 Three Bridges to Bedford
1W51 17.08 Bedford to Brighton
1W62 20.03 Brighton to Bedford
2W81 23.10 Bedford to Three Bridges
5W81 01+36 Three Bridges to Three Bridges Depot

TB509
5Y19 07+22 Jowett Sidings to Bedford
2W19 07.48 Bedford to Gatwick Airport
2W26 10.08 Gatwick Airport to Bedford
1W33 12.40 Bedford to Brighton
1W90 15.35 Brighton to Bedford
1W55 18.10 Bedford to Brighton
1W66 21.05 Brighton to Bedford
5Y66 23+50 Bedford to Jowett Sidings

 

[asylumxl]

Well your post has no facts so according to you I'll just ignore you.

Reasonable people don't call other people pathetic for staying we shouldn't speculate. Pot calling the kettle black.

 

[Class377/5]

Reasonable people don't call other people pathetic for staying we shouldn't speculate. Pot calling the kettle black.

I'm the one whose been using facts remember. But lets just agree to end this now shall we rather than continue to derail this thread as frankly I don't really feel the need to continue discussing your views anymore.

 

[asylumxl]

I'm the one whose been using facts remember. But lets just agree to end this now shall we rather than continue to derail this thread as frankly I don't really feel the need to continue discussing your views anymore.

And at what point did I say you weren't? My reply was in response to AM9 saying it seemed reliability had improved and taking a dig at "uninformed commentators". You seem to have taken offence on his behalf.

One would think you'd be in agreement when someone agrees with you, since you previously asked other posters to stick to facts. Either way I will express my views whether you agree with them or not and you are under no obligation to respond to them.

It's also entirely on topic. How exactly can we compare reliability at introduction to the current levels if we do not have any statistics to actually compare? :roll:

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Getting the thread back on topic any updates on:

* Number of units left to be built
* Number of units currently being constructed
* Number of units currently being tested and/or mileage accumulation
* Number of units awaiting delivery
* Number of units now in service

 

[physics34]

will do a sutton loop one next week. cool

 

[Class377/5]

Getting the thread back on topic any updates on:

* Number of units left to be built
* Number of units currently being constructed
* Number of units currently being tested and/or mileage accumulation
* Number of units awaiting delivery
* Number of units now in service

1) around 40-ish
2) one whole unit a week is completed
3) 3 or so (it varies by day)
4) around about 20-ish
5) currently 2x 700/0 diagrams with 6 have been in service and 7x 700/1 diagrams with 12 having been in service

 

[Kite159]

I see the 700s are heading out onto the Sutton loop (with TB401)

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I see the 700s are heading out onto the Sutton loop (with TB401)

Shame I'm not gonna see/photograph it.... be interesting how it fares throughout the day

 

[Alteran Ancient]

I see the 700s are heading out onto the Sutton loop (with TB401)

I noticed that too. Looks like Sevenoaks is going to be the last horse to cross the finishing hurdle!

 

[Domh245]

Shame I'm not gonna see/photograph it.... be interesting how it fares throughout the day

It wouldn't surprise me if there weren't a few cases of the train not stopping in the right place and thus failing to open the doors for a while, but hopefully I'll be proven wrong.

 

[hassaanhc]

Yesterday evening I had 700114 from East Croydon to St Pancras (2W62 1943 Three Bridges to Bedford). It was a 10L start but was only 4L after East Croydon and RT on passing West Norwood.

It will disappoint some people that:
The PIS was working perfectly.
Doors opened correctly at all stations.
Power supply changeover was quick.
I found the seats comfortable and thought there was actually more legroom than the Classes 360 and 450 that I'm used to. And the legroom was enough (as I have short legs :P).
I was fine with the lack of table (but then again I grew up using LUL).

I'd very happily take them on the GW (my other nearby NR line, the Hounslow Loop, is getting the 707s).

 

[Islineclear3_1]

It wouldn't surprise me if there weren't a few cases of the train not stopping in the right place and thus failing to open the doors for a while, but hopefully I'll be proven wrong.

I thought that driver training around the loop was well advanced. Be interesting how easily they tackle the incline up to Sutton from West Sutton in wet/leaf fall weather with all that extra traction

 

[Class377/5]

I noticed that too. Looks like Sevenoaks is going to be the last horse to cross the finishing hurdle!

That was always the plan as Sevenoaks line has Southeastern drivers which have to go through 700 training before wide spread roll out or in disputation you might have to cancel trains because of drivers not signing traction. Plan was to roll out 700 on Thameslink drivers route first so as to avoid this and allow Southeastern driver training to start (which I believe it has). Gap between Sutton and Sevenoaks getting 700s isn't that big either.

It wouldn't surprise me if there weren't a few cases of the train not stopping in the right place and thus failing to open the doors for a while, but hopefully I'll be proven wrong.

Drivers are getting used to the units now and incidents of delay due to stopping outside the mark are dropping rapidly.

I thought that driver training around the loop was well advanced. Be interesting how easily they tackle the incline up to Sutton from West Sutton in wet/leaf fall weather with all that extra traction

No driver training on the Loop, only ops testing (to clear units on the Loop). Driver training is being done between Bedford and Three Bridges.

 

[jamieP]

Just a shame the PIS system dosnt always work properly. Travelling from Luton to St Pancras last friday when Blackfriars was shut. PIS was stil announcing the train going to Brighton and the screens showed the unit as not in service.

 

[physics34]

Yesterday evening I had 700114 from East Croydon to St Pancras (2W62 1943 Three Bridges to Bedford). It was a 10L start but was only 4L after East Croydon and RT on passing West Norwood.

It will disappoint some people that:
The PIS was working perfectly.
Doors opened correctly at all stations.
Power supply changeover was quick.
I found the seats comfortable and thought there was actually more legroom than the Classes 360 and 450 that I'm used to. And the legroom was enough (as I have short legs :P).
I was fine with the lack of table (but then again I grew up using LUL).

I'd very happily take them on the GW (my other nearby NR line, the Hounslow Loop, is getting the 707s).

The main issues with the accommodation are if you have someone sitting next to you, if you are tall or heavy and if you have a cup of coffee and or a laptop/tablet.

I was observing people yesterday on my 700 journey between blackfriars and East Croydon in the peak and its not hard to notice quite a few people watching stuff on their phones/tablets and having to hold it rather than having a table to rest it on. The coffee people are the morning bunch so couldnt really comment. People in the window seats looking pretty scrunched up!

The ride quality is once again impressive, but the lack of handrails is actually an issue ive only just noticed.

 

[Class377/5]

The main issues with the accommodation are if you have someone sitting next to you, if you are tall or heavy and ive you have a cup of coffee and or a laptop/table.

I was observing people yesterday on my 700 journey between blackfriars and East Croydon in the peak and its not hard to notice quite a few people watching stuff on their phones/tablets and having to hold it rather than having a table to rest it on. The coffee people are the morning bunch so couldnt really comment. People in the window seats looking pretty scrunched up!

The ride quality is once again impressive, but the lack of handrails is actually an issue ive only just noticed.

Lack of handrails where? You mean on the ceiling?

 

[physics34]

Lack of handrails where? You mean on the ceiling?

Yep. Quite a few standees with not much to hold on too.

 

[Class377/5]

Yep. Quite a few standees with not much to hold on too.

As I've said before, you cannot have handrails in the ceiling as the whole thing opens out to access the electronics. People holding on would cause the ceiling to come down. The alternative would be to remove seats and put the equipment there reducing capacity.

 

[physics34]

As I've said before, you cannot have handrails in the ceiling as the whole thing opens out to access the electronics. People holding on would cause the ceiling to come down. The alternative would be to remove seats and put the equipment there reducing capacity.

Standing people better get good with their balancing then....! There must be another way

 

[SpacePhoenix]

As I've said before, you cannot have handrails in the ceiling as the whole thing opens out to access the electronics. People holding on would cause the ceiling to come down. The alternative would be to remove seats and put the equipment there reducing capacity.

How much room is there under the seats where electronics cabinets could go?

 

[AM9]

How much room is there under the seats where electronics cabinets could go?

Why clutter up the floors making them more difficult to keep clean? Also, the space beneath seats is for (permitted) large items of luggage.

The LO class 378s seem to cope well enough with a similar amount of hand holds and journeys on them are a lot more erratic in speed and smoothness.