Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[jon0844]

I recently travelled in one of the sections with the space for wheelchairs and the 3 tip up seats for use when the space is not in use. What I don't understand is why the rest of the seats on that side are singles rather than pairs. I'm sure there's a good reason for it but I couldn't work it out! Can anyone tell me why?

Ta!

Again, space. I assume someone worked out that this area will probably be popular with wheelchairs, buggies, bikes and so on. Leave a lot of extra space and there's less chance of fireworks if a wheelchair user boards when there are already people there, who can now move.

 

[J-2739]

I recently travelled in one of the sections with the space for wheelchairs and the 3 tip up seats for use when the space is not in use. What I don't understand is why the rest of the seats on that side are singles rather than pairs. I'm sure there's a good reason for it but I couldn't work it out! Can anyone tell me why?

Ta!

To provide more space for the wheelchair?

 

[jon0844]

London buses don't even have tip down seats in wheelchair areas do they? It makes sense to keep that area as clear and open as possible.

Regular users would likely know not to try and sit there, thus keeping it free for all the people that can upset them currently on trains with narrow aisles and vestibules.

I've said for years that we need to make trains more accessible, and not just for wheelchairs.

 

[phoenixcronin]

I recently travelled in one of the sections with the space for wheelchairs and the 3 tip up seats for use when the space is not in use. What I don't understand is why the rest of the seats on that side are singles rather than pairs. I'm sure there's a good reason for it but I couldn't work it out! Can anyone tell me why?

Ta!

As you may know, the two middle cars are designated for use by wheelchairs, with backboards and tip up seats etc. However, only one of them has an accessible toilet, and therefore the single seats are needed in the other car to ensure that the aisle in that section is wide enough for a wheelchair to pass through to the adjacent car and use the toilet.

 

[swt_passenger]

I recently travelled in one of the sections with the space for wheelchairs and the 3 tip up seats for use when the space is not in use. What I don't understand is why the rest of the seats on that side are singles rather than pairs. I'm sure there's a good reason for it but I couldn't work it out! Can anyone tell me why?

Ta!

Isn't it mainly because the marked wheelchair spaces (and doors) are set either side of an inter-car gangway, and only one side has the universal toilet. So there has to be additional space on the way to that gangway to reach the next carriage.

Seat plan that was linked earlier in the thread: https://www.flickr.com/photos/mattbuck007/12837538835/sizes/h/

Crossed with previous post but I'll leave it for the link to the diagrams.

 

[AM9]

Thats basically what the DfT replied to me when i sent them an email.

Not sure if its what someone who commutes everyday from Brighton, WOrthing or East Grinstead for up to 3 hours a day wants to hear though.

But it quite welcome to somebody who frequently can't even board the train at a busy time. When comparing the comfort wishes of some with providing enough space for every regular passenger to actually board, I think the correct choice has been made for a public transport provision.

 

[ert47]

London buses don't even have tip down seats in wheelchair areas do they? It makes sense to keep that area as clear and open as possible.

Some older buses did have that when new, but the majority (that I've been on) have since had the seat fixed in the upright position. Hazard a guess, most of those buses have been replaced, but some still roam the London streets

 

[jon0844]

But it quite welcome to somebody who frequently can't even board the train at a busy time. When comparing the comfort wishes of some with providing enough space for every regular passenger to actually board, I think the correct choice has been made for a public transport provision.

I agree, but the key now is to get people to move along the platform.

I'm at Gatwick Airport now and took the GatEx, a 12 car service and the first four coaches were bordering on crush loaded on account of the number of bags. The next four were comfortably empty and easy to get through. The last four, where I went, was empty. TOTALLY empty.

The only person I encountered was a lady cleaning up, who was going through collecting rubbish and washing the tables, cleaning the toilets etc.

I boarded five minutes before departure, but there were no announcements or calls from staff to move along. It doesn't take 5 minutes to walk to the far end but people always seem to think a train might go early.

This cannot happen on the TL services for it to work smoothly in the coming years.

 

[causton]

Some older buses did have that when new, but the majority (that I've been on) have since had the seat fixed in the upright position. Hazard a guess, most of those buses have been replaced, but some still roam the London streets

Think a while back they all got fixed in place to avoid confrontation if someone is sitting in the tip down seat, there used to be a backwards facing seat always against the wheelchair headrest but now as far as I know they simply don't make them as they know TfL don't like them.

 

[transmanche]

I agree, but the key now is to get people to move along the platform.

I'm at Gatwick Airport now and took the GatEx, a 12 car service and the first four coaches were bordering on crush loaded on account of the number of bags. The next four were comfortably empty and easy to get through. The last four, where I went, was empty. TOTALLY empty.
[...]
This cannot happen on the TL services for it to work smoothly in the coming years.

Which is why the 700s have a PIS which tells you which parts of the train are busy/quiet and have the wide inter-car connections to make it easier to move through the train.

 

[jon0844]

Which is why the 700s have a PIS which tells you which parts of the train are busy/quiet and have the wide inter-car connections to make it easier to move through the train.

I know, but there also has to be information on the platforms (which I believe there will be) and some prompting from staff to herd the sheep. People with bags are less likely to walk through, and we mustn't forget that the trains serve TWO airports.

Mind you, a more obvious solution for the GatEx is not to run 12 car trains in the day! But that's as silly as 10 car trains at midnight. Still, not for this thread..

 

[spark001uk]

Is there any news as to if/when these will get used on the Bedford-Sutton via Wimbledon / via Mitcham routes?

 

[asylumxl]

Which is why the 700s have a PIS which tells you which parts of the train are busy/quiet and have the wide inter-car connections to make it easier to move through the train.

Would that be the same PIS which doesn't seem to be working the majority of the time?

 

[transmanche]

Would that be the same PIS which doesn't seem to be working the majority of the time?

Which obviously means it's never going to work on any train at any time? :roll:

 

[jon0844]

Would that be the same PIS which doesn't seem to be working the majority of the time?

Only had one service where it was off the whole time, but currently it doesn't show the status of how busy each coach is in the core. Until that is sorted, it does lessen the usefulness somewhat.

I also think going forward, it should perhaps stop showing the TfL information once going away from London, say once beyond East Croydon or Elstree & Borehamwood?

Come to think of it, going forward, I'd probably use the same width font but squash it down (but within the regulations) so there could be an extra line to show fixed information - such as what coach you are in, the time, weather, what class it is (and if it's declassified) or whatever it can do.

 

[asylumxl]

Only had one service where it was off the whole time, but currently it doesn't show the status of how busy each coach is in the core. Until that is sorted, it does lessen the usefulness somewhat.

I also think going forward, it should perhaps stop showing the TfL information once going away from London, say once beyond East Croydon or Elstree & Borehamwood?

Come to think of it, going forward, I'd probably use the same width font but squash it down (but within the regulations) so there could be an extra line to show fixed information - such as what coach you are in, the time, weather, what class it is (and if it's declassified) or whatever it can do.

Which obviously means it's never going to work on any train at any time? :roll:

Believe it or not it's worked on every 700 I've been on. But reading this thread you'd think it never works. I was being facetious.

 

[AM9]

Believe it or not it's worked on every 700 I've been on. But reading this thread you'd think it never works. I was being facetious.

We can all feel so sorry for those who get a kick reporting teething troubles on the 700s when they are in full service and failures are rare exceptions.

 

[Bald Rick]

Only had one service where it was off the whole time, but currently it doesn't show the status of how busy each coach is in the core. Until that is sorted, it does lessen the usefulness somewhat.

I also think going forward, it should perhaps stop showing the TfL information once going away from London, say once beyond East Croydon or Elstree & Borehamwood?

Come to think of it, going forward, I'd probably use the same width font but squash it down (but within the regulations) so there could be an extra line to show fixed information - such as what coach you are in, the time, weather, what class it is (and if it's declassified) or whatever it can do.

Agree with most of this. Except loading data being displayed in the core. The stops are so frequent, and the load changes so significant, that the data will be incorrect almost as soon as it is displayed. I don't think encouraging large flows of people up and down the core platforms as the loading data changes is sensible.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Question for Class 377/5 (or any others on the "front line" so to speak)...

I have a piccie going through for publication and want to add something to the caption. What are the reliability figures for the 700s and how much has performance improved over the last few weeks given also better driver familiarity with the stock. Is there any tangible evidence? I want to put them in a good light

 

[Class377/5]

Question for Class 377/5 (or any others on the "front line" so to speak)...

I have a piccie going through for publication and want to add something to the caption. What are the reliability figures for the 700s and how much has performance improved over the last few weeks given also better driver familiarity with the stock. Is there any tangible evidence? I want to put them in a good light

All figures are not public and I doubt will be beyond Modern Railways annual round up.

Side note I'm not able to post so much at present but can state no 700 workings next two weekend folks. Due to alterations to train service not a unit issue.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

All figures are not public and I doubt will be beyond Modern Railways annual round up.

Side note I'm not able to post so much at present but can state no 700 workings next two weekend folks. Due to alterations to train service not a unit issue.

Fair enough but can you confirm that reliability has steadily improved?

 

[sd0733]

Had quite a few 700 trips today, had 700103/108/109/110/113/114. Have to admit the seats have grown on me and they seemed a lot better than my last trips.
There were a few niggles though, 114 had all its internal PIS screens bright red with a ! in a triangle in the small part and 'Please be aware this train is not in service' in the large part but all the external screens said Brighton and the announcements were correctly announcing every stop so its got an issue somewhere.
Also on 103 the PIS didn't work at all and there were no announcements. And at least at East Croydon where I boarded and Coulsdon South where I got off only the front 4 coaches doors released with the 'Door out of use' sign illuminating on the others but they released about 20 seconds later.
Hopefully all these niggly faults will be rectified soon and they'll settle down into good units.

 

[Bald Rick]

Fair enough but can you confirm that reliability has steadily improved?

Evidence is anecdotal, but in my experience, reliability has improved rapidly. (Cue failures tomorrow).

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Evidence is anecdotal, but in my experience, reliability has improved rapidly. (Cue failures tomorrow).

Thank you.

As an aside, the run I had yesterday was bang on time and most of the other workings I tracked on RTT were uneventful bar a few minutes here and there

 

[JonathanH]

Had quite a few 700 trips today, had 700103/108/109/110/113/114. Have to admit the seats have grown on me and they seemed a lot better than my last trips.
There were a few niggles though, 114 had all its internal PIS screens bright red with a ! in a triangle in the small part and 'Please be aware this train is not in service' in the large part but all the external screens said Brighton and the announcements were correctly announcing every stop so its got an issue somewhere.
Also on 103 the PIS didn't work at all and there were no announcements. And at least at East Croydon where I boarded and Coulsdon South where I got off only the front 4 coaches doors released with the 'Door out of use' sign illuminating on the others but they released about 20 seconds later.
Hopefully all these niggly faults will be rectified soon and they'll settle down into good units.

First day in service for 103 today? Presumably worked one of the two Three Bridges starters so will be at Bedford tonight?

 

[sd0733]

First day in service for 103 today? Presumably worked one of the two Three Bridges starters so will be at Bedford tonight?

Could well be as not one I've seen out before. Can't find the diagrams as on my phone but it was on the diagram with the 15:59 Three Bridges to Bedford in it.

 

[spark001uk]

Do we know if/when these will get used on the Bedford-Sutton via Wimbledon / via Mitcham routes? Or will this likely be the 8-car units if anything?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Do we know if/when these will get used on the Bedford-Sutton via Wimbledon / via Mitcham routes? Or will this likely be the 8-car units if anything?

I don't think many stations on the Sutton loop can take more than 8 cars so suspect these will be served by the 8-car units. Even a few stations on the MML can only take 8 car

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Have any driver's duties gone over to pure 700s yet (or at least half 700s)?

 

[Goldfish62]

Think a while back they all got fixed in place to avoid confrontation if someone is sitting in the tip down seat, there used to be a backwards facing seat always against the wheelchair headrest but now as far as I know they simply don't make them as they know TfL don't like them.

The tip up seats were removed rather than being fixed upright on all buses which had them, and haven't been specified on new buses for around 10 years. You are correct that it is primarily to keep the area clear.