Cheers. Tis' very interesting. Still not sure why the talk of 387's.
-
Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress
- Thread starter fgwrich
- Start date
- Status
Cheers. Tis' very interesting. Still not sure why the talk of 387's.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
They've done this at Denmark Hill - it's black with white text. No nice font like Southeastern or Southern's though.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Well the fire extinguishers in coach 7 on 700107 didn't last long. It has been set off everywhere!
Either youths or drunks (or both)
Either youths or drunks (or both)
phoenixcronin
Member
The others probably won't last much longer once the yobs get their hands on them
Last edited:
At least there isn't any carpet to get wet!
An a related note I'm surprised no-one else has mentioned the lack of bins. When I travelled on a 700 there was litter strewn everywhere. Only half the doors have bins adjacent to them.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
Anyone know why 1W05 BD-BI was cancelled today pls?
asylumxl
Established Member
The information provided from various real-time sources gives no more detail than you probably already know;
Seems previous workings were delayed too.
Last edited:
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
Sprinter153
Member
Travelled on 700109 on Saturday. I do like these units, though I've some concerns over seat durability. I noticed a lot of them seem to have, for want of a better word, buttock prints in the cushion. A little concerning considering how early it is since introduction!
HMS Ark Royal
Established Member
I know that the 700s will never use it short of a massive emergency, but how many coaches in a unit could fit in the platform space of City Thameslink?
Was somewhat curious to know the answer
Was somewhat curious to know the answer
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
So I had the chance to do a walk-through "inspection" of 700102 and ride 700108 today so thought I would do my own mini-review.
First impressions as I walked down '102 was that although very cool and blue, carriages were spacious, airy, well lit from the large windows and functional. I won't mention the tables (or lack of) as this has been done to death.
In many ways, I felt "less is more", there was no clutter, the 2+2 seating throughout (generally) looked tidy and the signage/PIS was good. Lots of fire extinguishers but as somebody mentioned previously, not sure how long they will last or if they can be made more secure. I noticed the lack of bins, which although is not a criticism, perhaps this was deliberate to avoid clutter?
First Class looked the part, tables et al and hope this can be retained in its current form at both ends of units.
I travelled up from Brighton on 700108 and apart from those funny Desiro sounds, ride was smooth and then punchy on the pointwork. The automated announcements and PIS were clear and to the point. I didn't find them too intrusive.
I sat next to the window with my foot resting up on the side trunking/heater grills which was fine for about 30mins upon which I moved carriage to an aisle seat. Legroom in a 4-bay was fine, much better than a 319. Seats were reasonably comfy (luxurious compared to a 376!).
Train ran to time up to London and there were no delays closing the doors. I liked the idea of the PIS showing vacant seats in the train and which toilets were vacant/occupied.
Of course, my train wasn't too busy so it was a decent ride/experience IMO outside of the peak. I might have a different opinion during rush hour but will wait until I get the chance to experience.
Quite impressed overall - a clear winner over the 319's and a close winner over a 377/387.
I look forward to a run up the MML and sampling rush hour...
First impressions as I walked down '102 was that although very cool and blue, carriages were spacious, airy, well lit from the large windows and functional. I won't mention the tables (or lack of) as this has been done to death.
In many ways, I felt "less is more", there was no clutter, the 2+2 seating throughout (generally) looked tidy and the signage/PIS was good. Lots of fire extinguishers but as somebody mentioned previously, not sure how long they will last or if they can be made more secure. I noticed the lack of bins, which although is not a criticism, perhaps this was deliberate to avoid clutter?
First Class looked the part, tables et al and hope this can be retained in its current form at both ends of units.
I travelled up from Brighton on 700108 and apart from those funny Desiro sounds, ride was smooth and then punchy on the pointwork. The automated announcements and PIS were clear and to the point. I didn't find them too intrusive.
I sat next to the window with my foot resting up on the side trunking/heater grills which was fine for about 30mins upon which I moved carriage to an aisle seat. Legroom in a 4-bay was fine, much better than a 319. Seats were reasonably comfy (luxurious compared to a 376!).
Train ran to time up to London and there were no delays closing the doors. I liked the idea of the PIS showing vacant seats in the train and which toilets were vacant/occupied.
Of course, my train wasn't too busy so it was a decent ride/experience IMO outside of the peak. I might have a different opinion during rush hour but will wait until I get the chance to experience.
Quite impressed overall - a clear winner over the 319's and a close winner over a 377/387.
I look forward to a run up the MML and sampling rush hour...
Let's hope the seats wear out really quickly. The new ones might come with seat back tables....
Seats are normally recovered up to a mid-life refit so that's 15-20 years. When the real crushes come, I think that the retrofit table idea will fizzle away.
You mean Kings Cross Thameslink right? City Thameslink is used everyday by them, for instance I was on one that called there just this Saturday...
I wonder how realistic it is that the old King's Cross Thameslink station will ever be used for an emergency evacuation. With no lighting at night and loads of likely hazards (in the daytime, it seems the platforms aren't kept in a clear condition and there are cabinets and other things - as well as it being very shallow) I would imagine we'd be talking a SERIOUS incident. And in such cases, you'd be evacuating just about anywhere.
And that's even without the issue of the platform length.
And that's even without the issue of the platform length.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
On the contrary, wouldn't a disused station be BETTER - I'm sure London Underground use some of their disused stations for such exercises
I would presum that, in such a situation, the evacuation would be fairly "controlled" - I.e. Detraining all passengers through a single set of doors, LUL/on train staff on platform to direct pax to emergency exits etc.
From the staircase at the north end of the platform, it's on a very short walk into the emergency exit that is now the LUL Pentonville Rd ticket hall.
But I agree, you'd be talking a very significant failure to warrant such an action, and some luck in having a train be able to have a controlled stop into the platform.
carriageline
Established Member
- Joined
- 11 Jan 2012
- Messages
- 1,897
Generally the signallers are very good at proactively stopping trains at stations in the core. Of course you will get w couple out of stations, and you only have a handful of stations so you are limited.
At the same time, soon we will have more trains on the panels than we do platforms. So that will be near impossible soon!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
At the same time, soon we will have more trains on the panels than we do platforms. So that will be near impossible soon!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 34,237
I've never heard of a welded tubular steel frame wearing out.
HMS Ark Royal
Established Member
swt_passenger
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 34,237
8 cars. They were extended to that length as part of the Bed Pan electrification to Moorgate.
The sectional appendix shows them as 167 metres. The distance between tunnel portals (Clerkenwell 3 and Kings Cross South) is given as 9 chains. Just to round this off the platforms were also completely below standard for width, especially the down platform, so it was out of the question to expand the old station.
The sectional appendix shows them as 167 metres. The distance between tunnel portals (Clerkenwell 3 and Kings Cross South) is given as 9 chains. Just to round this off the platforms were also completely below standard for width, especially the down platform, so it was out of the question to expand the old station.
Last edited:
Minstral25
Established Member
Finally managed to travel on a 700 today catching 700102 from East Croydon to Redhill on 2W33 11.24 Bedford to Three Bridges. Having been a very vocal opponent of the trains being used on the wrong routes I thought I’d give my views now I have actually travelled on them.
The train arrived with that Siemens whine and the piercing pinging sound when the doors open (is such an annoying sound really necessary on opening doors).
However, the 700 environment on entering is very pleasant, plenty of entry space (and as the train I was travelling on was a bank holiday Monday it only had around 20 people on 12 coaches). The ease of moving around is excellent and the utilitarian finish appeals to me. PIS system was not working showing just a blank screen so I can’t comment on that.
Having boarded at the rear of the train at East Croydon, I thought I’d start by looking around and trying a few seats for comfort. The standard toilets are good, well laid out and functioned fully. The first class area is well presented and seats comfortable, although the weird swing door to enter is odd. I then sat in a group of 4 facing standard seats until Coulsdon South. Not the most comfortable seats and very close that my knees would be touching anyone sitting opposite me. Didn’t have anywhere to put my coffee down so I could open my bag which I would find frustrating on a full train.
Oddly noticed that the Public Address System in first class is about 2 words behind that of Standard class so being just outside First in coach 11, I could clearly hear both which made announcements difficult to follow. Hope they get that fixed so it is all in sync.
For the rest of the journey from Coulsdon to Redhill I sat in a rearward facing airline seat and these are ridiculously small. My shoulders when touching the window on one side covered around 4-6cms of the seat next to me, which I doubt will be welcome when both seats are used. More disappointingly I couldn’t fit my knees in the space so ended up "manspreading" to squeeze in, so again I would be taking up my neighbour’s space. Also even when doing that I couldn’t sit flat on the seat and ended up in a very uncomfortable downward angled seating position.
Whilst I do think they need tables for coffees or teas as journey lengths are such that people will use the services to drink or eat I do not think this is the worst aspect of design. The key problem is how small the seat spaces are, I am 6’2” and by no means the largest person using them and the fact I cannot really fit into a single seat is a stupendously stupid design flaw. By the time I reached Redhill I had cramp from sitting in such an awful position and no train should put you through that whether a metro train or an outer suburban train.
Conclusion, a lot of good things (and I expect the PIS will be excellent) let down by an incredibly bad seating space. I still think they are the wrong trains for the routes they will be used on, when they are full in the morning peak they will become a drag to use rather than a useful opportunity to prepare for a day or relax whilst getting home. Perhaps I expect too much from my commute but as 10-20% of a commuter’s earnings would go on commuting I think it is fair to demand better.
The train arrived with that Siemens whine and the piercing pinging sound when the doors open (is such an annoying sound really necessary on opening doors).
However, the 700 environment on entering is very pleasant, plenty of entry space (and as the train I was travelling on was a bank holiday Monday it only had around 20 people on 12 coaches). The ease of moving around is excellent and the utilitarian finish appeals to me. PIS system was not working showing just a blank screen so I can’t comment on that.
Having boarded at the rear of the train at East Croydon, I thought I’d start by looking around and trying a few seats for comfort. The standard toilets are good, well laid out and functioned fully. The first class area is well presented and seats comfortable, although the weird swing door to enter is odd. I then sat in a group of 4 facing standard seats until Coulsdon South. Not the most comfortable seats and very close that my knees would be touching anyone sitting opposite me. Didn’t have anywhere to put my coffee down so I could open my bag which I would find frustrating on a full train.
Oddly noticed that the Public Address System in first class is about 2 words behind that of Standard class so being just outside First in coach 11, I could clearly hear both which made announcements difficult to follow. Hope they get that fixed so it is all in sync.
For the rest of the journey from Coulsdon to Redhill I sat in a rearward facing airline seat and these are ridiculously small. My shoulders when touching the window on one side covered around 4-6cms of the seat next to me, which I doubt will be welcome when both seats are used. More disappointingly I couldn’t fit my knees in the space so ended up "manspreading" to squeeze in, so again I would be taking up my neighbour’s space. Also even when doing that I couldn’t sit flat on the seat and ended up in a very uncomfortable downward angled seating position.
Whilst I do think they need tables for coffees or teas as journey lengths are such that people will use the services to drink or eat I do not think this is the worst aspect of design. The key problem is how small the seat spaces are, I am 6’2” and by no means the largest person using them and the fact I cannot really fit into a single seat is a stupendously stupid design flaw. By the time I reached Redhill I had cramp from sitting in such an awful position and no train should put you through that whether a metro train or an outer suburban train.
Conclusion, a lot of good things (and I expect the PIS will be excellent) let down by an incredibly bad seating space. I still think they are the wrong trains for the routes they will be used on, when they are full in the morning peak they will become a drag to use rather than a useful opportunity to prepare for a day or relax whilst getting home. Perhaps I expect too much from my commute but as 10-20% of a commuter’s earnings would go on commuting I think it is fair to demand better.
Thank you for posting this. I managed to get 700102 and 700109 for haulage tonight to bring me up to 9.
All of the units seemed to manage the whole day today (albeit with a few empty runs - early morning engineering overrun by the looks of things and some issue with 700102 at Three Bridges during the day). Diagrams worked on Monday were:
501 - 700102
502 - 700110
503 - 700109
504 - 700108
I think only 9 have been in service. 102/104/107-110/112-114. Does the increase to 7 diagrams tomorrow mean that a further 2 700/1s are ready for service or is it 7 from 9 for now?
Presumably this has run to get a fourth 700 to Bedford for service tomorrow.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X12737/2016/08/29/advanced
5W99 2123 Three Bridges Tl Up Depot to Bedford Jowett Sidings
pretty much agree with all of that. A wasted opportunity for a better interior design.
It's all about space. Every extra inch for the aisle makes it easier to get around/through.
Edit: I assume that early on there would have been lots of discussions/meetings about the key objectives. Indeed, on the mock up train there would have been many discussions afterwards.
I think putting the seats as far over as possible is what will make these trains last a good number of years with huge numbers of people. Someone can sit with a carry on bag in the aisle next to them and you can still walk by with ease.
Buggies can also be wheeled all the way though easily, which should help stop doorways getting clogged (especially if there are 24 sets of doors buggies can be stored by, assuming people don't use the accessible area (which many won't).
Last edited:
Thats basically what the DfT replied to me when i sent them an email.
Not sure if its what someone who commutes everyday from Brighton, WOrthing or East Grinstead for up to 3 hours a day wants to hear though.
I usually take aisle seats. I don't leave stuff on the other seat and gladly let people in and out.
A lot of people prefer window seats, so it seems to work out fine.
I recently travelled in one of the sections with the space for wheelchairs and the 3 tip up seats for use when the space is not in use. What I don't understand is why the rest of the seats on that side are singles rather than pairs. I'm sure there's a good reason for it but I couldn't work it out! Can anyone tell me why?
Ta!
Ta!
- Status