• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

Status
Not open for further replies.

sarahj

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2012
Messages
1,897
Location
Brighton
Had my first pass on a 700 today. HHE to BTN, all stops:

pros: Air Con worked well. All the PIS systems worked, decent info, tho' TFL info seems a bit pointless on a coastal bound train. Despite being full of kids, not too loud. On arrival at Brighton it was easier to walk through the train than join the crowds on the platform. I sat where the bikes should go on a tip up seat.

Cons: No table, so i was unable to cash up. :-x
Seems to be a lack of toilets. All seemed to be busy all the way.
Plastic floor gives the view of a utilitarian train.
Needs more handrails. If your standing, lots of open spaces, no where to hold on to.
First glance at a door, only spotted a door egress handle, not a pass comm. But perhaps did not look hard enough.
The PIS needs a bit of time to get scrolling, so between Wivelsfield/Burgess Hill/Hassocks only next station managed to be shown. Seems it needs a few mins to get going.

I'd give it around a 6.5/10. Could be better.

Last question: How long will those fire ext last?
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

asylumxl

Established Member
Joined
12 Feb 2009
Messages
4,260
Location
Hiding in your shadow
Had my first pass on a 700 today. HHE to BTN, all stops:

pros: Air Con worked well. All the PIS systems worked, decent info, tho' TFL info seems a bit pointless on a coastal bound train. Despite being full of kids, not too loud. On arrival at Brighton it was easier to walk through the train than join the crowds on the platform. I sat where the bikes should go on a tip up seat.

Cons: No table, so i was unable to cash up. :-x
Seems to be a lack of toilets. All seemed to be busy all the way.
Plastic floor gives the view of a utilitarian train.
Needs more handrails. If your standing, lots of open spaces, no where to hold on to.
First glance at a door, only spotted a door egress handle, not a pass comm. But perhaps did not look hard enough.
The PIS needs a bit of time to get scrolling, so between Wivelsfield/Burgess Hill/Hassocks only next station managed to be shown. Seems it needs a few mins to get going.

I'd give it around a 6.5/10. Could be better.

Last question: How long will those fire ext last?
In the mock ups there were more handrails, particularly near the doors. I only noticed they were missing on the final interior a few weeks ago.
 

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
16,018
Location
St Albans
That's the problem with service recovery. You decide to cancel a train so that the services behind can then run on time, staff displacement is reduced and the knock on affect to services are dramatically reduced. In the peak you still get cancellations but there is carnage. Trains back up, passengers back up, staff back up. Then, the knock on effect still disrupts the off peak as you are still fighting service recovery.




Staffing is the big problem. It is already happening where Driver are getting a 700 on their diagram but still don't sign the unit. Operationally behind the scenes there are just as many "teething problems".

Allocating rolling stock to a driver who can't sign for it sounds like a rostering cock-up. GTR really must get the hang of running the new trains before the May 2017 roll-out. Despite the media hollering about problems with new trains, that's nothing compared to the fuss there'll be when the stabling sidings are filling with new trains, (£1.5bn of public money) and the old stock starts to celebrate the Christmas weather!
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,844
Location
UK
You board a northbound Thameslink train to Cambridge, which is 10 minutes late going north from St Pancras (for whatever reason).

First of all, you have to get onto the GN at Belle Isle. This probably won't be an issue, although it could be if something happens to be leaving King's Cross on the down slow just at the right time - if so one of the trains is going to be delayed.

At Finsbury Park there's the choice of three lines. You will probably find a slot on the down fast although may have to wait a gap in the East Coast, Hull Trains, Grand Central or even Great Northern service, so may sit in the platform at Finsbury Park waiting for this. Alternatively you can run on the down slow but somewhere along the line you're likely to catch an all-stations Hertford or Welwyn train, you will also be constrained by the lower line speeds on the slow.

By Potters Bar the train more-or-less *has* to cross to the down slow, as you now have station stops at Potters Bar and Hatfield, as well as later the need to slow for the DF-DS crossover at Welwyn GC if you stayed on the DF. If you stay on the fast, you *will* be holding up something else.

But crossing onto the down slow now means the out-of-path train may well become tangled up with an all-stations Welwyn GC train, which calls additionally at Brookmans Park and Welham Green. The signaller may be able to hold that back, delaying that, depending on how the two services converge. Worst case scenario is you follow one all the way to Welwyn, possibly losing 5-10 minutes depending on how it pans out.

Whatever happens, by the time you get to Welwyn, the train now has to occupy the down fast again to get over the viaduct, as well as the call at Welwyn North. The need to call at Welwyn North means you will take up the equivalent of two paths, bearing in mind the booked two paths have been wasted. Unless you're very lucky and there happens to be a two-path gap just at the right moment, either you get held back for a suitable gap, or something else gets delayed. So perhaps another couple of delay minutes for someone.

From Woolmer Green you can run fast line or slow, but you're calling at Knebworth and Stevenage, so if you run on the fast line you're almost certainly holding something up (the same train you may well have been holding up behind you whilst you called at Welwyn North). If you run on the slow line there might be a terminating Hertford line train reversing in platform 4 at Stevenage, which could block you for up to 10 minutes, or alternatively that could be held back and delayed to make room for you. Also bear in mind that there are 4tph to Cambridge and Peterborough who also need to be routed one line or another through Stevenage and are subject to the same constraints. By Hitchin, everything needs to share the one down platform in order to make the call. Quite easy to accrue 5-10 minutes delay here for one or more trains.

Having left Hitchin, you're no longer tangled up with Peterborough services, but you're now booked to call at *seven* intermediate stations. Using the same line are 2tph non-stop London to Cambridge, and 2tph which call at three of the seven stations. There's a limited overtaking opportunity at Hitchin by using the old route (albeit a train using the old route will have to cross both up lines on the level), and an even more limited opportunity at Royston by routing something through the up platform (if one of the 6tph up services aren't using it at the time). Both these overtaking opportunities rely on the trains being in the right place at the right time. So either you get held back at Hitchin for however long required (if there's somewhere to hold you that doesn't delay something else), or something else gets stuck behind you and potentially delayed for 15-20 minutes.

Finally at Shepreth Branch Junction you have to fit in with 3 or 4 tph off the West Anglia route. If you're unlucky enough to coincide, one or the other will be delayed by a couple of minutes. One of the Anglia services actually runs all the way to Birmingham.

Bear in mind that 2tph are ultimately planned for the London to Kings Lynn service, these being the non-stop trains described above. This route has long single-line sections between Littleport and Downham Market, and between Watlington and Kings Lynn. Delay one of these services and your down delay has now potentially transmitted to the entire up service with the same domino effects right back to London.

The alternative scenario is your service gets re-scheduled to miss out stops, or turned short somewhere. Either of these options creates a 60-minute gap at many intermediate locations with the proposed 2tph service patterns.

Now imagine all of the above when there's more than just one late-running service emanating from Thameslink...

Thanks for a very detailed, if somewhat specific, example of why I too think the whole set up is flawed from the outset.

I think come 2018 the trains will be fine. I am not worried about them at all really.

What's more is what passengers have to do to get where they need to go when the trains are inevitably made to cut stops or even gets cancelled and turned back. The stoppers to Cambridge surely pick up lots of people beyond WGC who are going to Cambridge and stations beforehand (or even after, like Ely or on to King's Lynn) so if the train never makes it or skips their stop - how long do they have to wait?

They hardly have the luxury of a plan B or C as many people on the inner suburban sections do. I mean, I can go to St Albans or over to Hertford (or more likely Cuffley). If things get real bad, I can even go over to Cheshunt to get on the WAML. Then there are the bus options. Heck, even a taxi as a last resort.

I suppose those AT Cambridge have a plan B, but people between there and WGC to Hitchin are going to be pretty buggered are they not?
 

asylumxl

Established Member
Joined
12 Feb 2009
Messages
4,260
Location
Hiding in your shadow
lI suppose those AT Cambridge have a plan B, but people between there and WGC to Hitchin are going to be pretty buggered are they not?

I live between Hitchin and Luton, currently I use TL as it's direct to Blackfriars. When things go wrong I currently have the option of going to Hitchin. In the future, when TL goes wrong I'll probably have a harder time getting home...
 

Class2ldn

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2011
Messages
1,400
No its doing what it's designed to do. If the driver misses the correct mark the doors default to 4 coaches. We then have to manually override it ensuring we open the correct amount of doors.
Not a fault but can be a pain in the rear.
 
Joined
24 Mar 2009
Messages
592
Had my first pass on a 700 today. HHE to BTN, all stops:

pros: Air Con worked well. All the PIS systems worked, decent info, tho' TFL info seems a bit pointless on a coastal bound train. Despite being full of kids, not too loud. On arrival at Brighton it was easier to walk through the train than join the crowds on the platform. I sat where the bikes should go on a tip up seat.

Cons: No table, so i was unable to cash up. :-x
Seems to be a lack of toilets. All seemed to be busy all the way.
Plastic floor gives the view of a utilitarian train.
Needs more handrails. If your standing, lots of open spaces, no where to hold on to.
First glance at a door, only spotted a door egress handle, not a pass comm. But perhaps did not look hard enough.
The PIS needs a bit of time to get scrolling, so between Wivelsfield/Burgess Hill/Hassocks only next station managed to be shown. Seems it needs a few mins to get going.

I'd give it around a 6.5/10. Could be better.

Last question: How long will those fire ext last?

I wondered that about the fire extinguishers too. I suspect they'll be adorning someone's S London crib soon, or "recycled" for cash.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
20,317
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
Was 1W37 operated by a 700 yesterday as booked? If so (and part of me hopes it isn't, to avoid giving those with an agenda something to whine about), what was the fault that caused it to sit down at St. Albans for 30+ minutes?

Terrible isn't it? All these people with agendas .. like Thameslink customers who turn up at the station with the agenda of getting from A to B and hoping their chosen service runs in accordance with the advertised timetable.
 
Last edited:

Blindtraveler

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2011
Messages
10,544
Terrible isn't it? All these people with agendas .. like Thameslink customers who turn up at the station with the agenda of getting from A to B and hoping their chosen service runs in accordance with the advertised timetable.

Lol to this, post of the week IMO
 

Class377/5

Established Member
Joined
19 Jun 2010
Messages
5,594
Just watched the delivery of the 25th 700, 700018 into Three Bridges. Still 90 units to go!
 

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
23,264
09:11 Three Bridges to Bedford due 11:19

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.

(Issue seems to have happened at Three Bridges - running empty as 5W22 at 09:46)

10:35 Brighton to Bedford due 13:05

This train will be cancelled.
This is due to a fault on this train.

(The inbound working, 1W13 07:34 Bedford to Brighton got as far as St Albans having left Bedford late - shame as I was hoping to catch the 20:43 from Three Bridges to Bedford later today if this working kept to diagram)

The other three seem to be fine.
 

Minstral25

Established Member
Joined
10 Sep 2009
Messages
1,964
Location
Surrey
Does anybody know when the Thameslink 700's are scheduled to be taking over Southern's Horsham to London Bridge Services?
 

Class2ldn

Established Member
Joined
25 Feb 2011
Messages
1,400
Well I had 700s all day yesterday and had nothing but problems unfortunately.
First time out of about ten I've had so not bad going I guess.
Still nice trains to drive but they need to iron out the problems as I believe GTR are losing their patience with Siemens.
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
30,844
Location
UK
My Eurostar e320 to had power problems today in Calais and arrived 20 minutes late in Paris.

Not sure if the power problems were on the train or above, but I did laugh to myself!
 

J-2739

Established Member
Joined
30 Jul 2016
Messages
2,237
Location
London
My Eurostar e320 to had power problems today in Calais and arrived 20 minutes late in Paris.

Not sure if the power problems were on the train or above, but I did laugh to myself!

Did you post in the wrong thread or are you disowning Siemens? :smile:
 

class387

Established Member
Joined
9 Oct 2015
Messages
1,580
Did you post in the wrong thread or are you disowning Siemens? :smile:

If the latter, then I will add that in the four times I've been booked on a e320, three have been cancelled or replaced with 373s due to 'train faults'.
 

cambsy

On Moderation
Joined
6 Oct 2011
Messages
1,107
Am planning to do St Pancras-Bedford-Brighton on a 700 or a couple next Wednesday, what are the booked diagrams next week? thanks
 

387star

On Moderation
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
6,665
...which seems obvious if there haven't been any further 700 diagrams introduced to release them. Maybe they go next week.

It was said by a forum member that five of six 387/2 were to retire from thameslink duties last weekend
 
Last edited:

JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
23,264
Just to provide a bit of balance, all seem to be going to plan this morning:

1B10 0827 Brighton to London Bridge
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G73330/2016/08/25/advanced
RT at Three Bridges

1W13 0734 Bedford to Brighton
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G73469/2016/08/25/advanced
RT at West Norwood Junction

1W11 0658 Bedford to Three Bridges
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G73464/2016/08/25/advanced
Arrived 3L at Three Bridges

2W21 0824 Bedford to Three Bridges
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G74266/2016/08/25/advanced
RT at St Albans

1W82 0722 Brighton to Bedford
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G73645/2016/08/25/advanced
1L at Farringdon
 

SpacePhoenix

Established Member
Joined
18 Mar 2014
Messages
5,491
If the latter, then I will add that in the four times I've been booked on a e320, three have been cancelled or replaced with 373s due to 'train faults'.

How many of them times are probably where physically it looks fine but the TMS says "No chance mate!"?
 

class387

Established Member
Joined
9 Oct 2015
Messages
1,580
How many of them times are probably where physically it looks fine but the TMS says "No chance mate!"?

Don't know, they refuse to explain anything other than 'train fault'. Also the one time I did get to ride it it was 30min late for whatever reason.
 

D365

Veteran Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
13,157
How many of them times are probably where physically it looks fine but the TMS says "No chance mate!"?

You seem to have it out for the electrical engineers on the job. Not the first time I've read this kind of comment.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top