Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

[Sparks807Evo]

I'm usually a fan of Bombardier, however I have to say - I find the Siemens EMUs better than the Bombardier EMUs in terms of noise. It's not so much of a sound intensity issue (both I find quiet), it's just occasionally you get clunking/creaking on the Bombardiers (due to the brakes I'm led to believe). Siemens make nothing like that.

 

[Blamethrower]

Yeah I've heard the clunk in 377s, I guess I'm talking externally really.

377s have a lovely swooshing sound to their acceleration, desiros have the siren, ice3s like a huge generator starting up, I suppose they're not as bad as those, but still quite loud and potentially can impact local residents more than a fleet of 387/377s
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And yes, track was possibly a factor too

 

[Class377/5]

Has a 700 been round the Sutton loop yet?

Nope as no 8 car testing has started. Don't blieve there is a plan to test 700/1 around the Loop (unlike the 377/5 initial testing).

I'm not meaning to have a go, but without posting your own evidence, than your sources are no more reliable than mine. While I fully understand that 'gossip' is a game of Chinese whispers, I wouldn't class it as gossip. These guys work in close proximity all the time and my friend often crosses paths with drivers doing their 700 training.

My source is official documentation for testing. If you see that as on the same level as gossip then I'm guess your missing the point. But hey feel free to believe what you want.

But I took your point, and I've once again checked with him, and the information about the door issue came from a driver on his training. While I cannot verify the driver on Twitter, he does appear to be a TL driver at the very least and his posts do support what my friend has been told. Is it solid proof beyond reasonable doubt? No, of course not. But to see the same story from multiple source, including guys on this forum, there's a point where there is no smoke without fire.

Its not solid proof tho. Its a third hand report, he said that he said x, y, z. There is often smoke without fire. And I've heard nothing from any driver contacts and they normally like to ask questions like that.

Also to clarify an earlier post, I believe the Twitter guy means that 50 guys have completed their training, while I'm sure many more are still in the process, but that still leaves a lot of holes in a 24/7 rota.

50 is a fair number, I believe that's around a third of the daily TL drivers total.

Disagree.

Thought it sounded really loud. Didn't sound effortless, appeared to be making a right song and dance about it

But then Siemens has a track record of this. Think desiro city vs current desiro and ICE3.

All ridiculously noisy for no apparent reason, and all sound different too.

Bombardier have their critics, but noisy trains is not one of their faults

I'd rather have a lovely quiet inside of the train in the 700s than the 377/387 where you can hear the motors.

You can bet that you won't be able to hear it inside though - certainly not over the noise of the air conditioning! :P

It sounded like it was running on recently ground track, which wouldn't have helped matters, but yes, it was a bit on the loud side. I couldn't really put a reason on why it is so loud other than perhaps parts being fastened directly to an equipment case rather than mounted on anti-vibration pads, nor why they sound different. We already know that they sound like conventional Desiro UK units on third rail with the UFO noise, and then rather like that AC motored 321 on overheads.

Beats the Derby rattle though.

No major rattle on the pre commissioned units. There is some detailed checking going on during the testing phase.

 

[AM9]

You can bet that you won't be able to hear it inside though - certainly not over the noise of the air conditioning! :P

It sounded like it was running on recently ground track, which wouldn't have helped matters, but yes, it was a bit on the loud side. I couldn't really put a reason on why it is so loud other than perhaps parts being fastened directly to an equipment case rather than mounted on anti-vibration pads, nor why they sound different. We already know that they sound like conventional Desiro UK units on third rail with the UFO noise, and then rather like that AC motored 321 on overheads.

Beats the Derby rattle though.

Sounds a bit like noisy drive pinions which is unusual for new trains. Maybe the lightweight and open construction of the new bogies doesn't suppress the noise like more conventional outside frame designs.

 

[Emblematic]

Sounds a bit like noisy drive pinions which is unusual for new trains. Maybe the lightweight and open construction of the new bogies doesn't suppress the noise like more conventional outside frame designs.

Sounds like, but isn't - it's noise from the wheels on recently ground rail. The sound is the same along the length of the train, there's no difference between the trailers and motored carriages. Recordings at other locations have no similar noise element.

 

[AM9]

Sounds like, but isn't - it's noise from the wheels on recently ground rail. The sound is the same along the length of the train, there's no difference between the trailers and motored carriages. Recordings at other locations have no similar noise element.

Well it does vary slightly between the powered and unpowered bogies, particularly on the faster 'wrong'track' pass later in the thread. I accept that the railhead condition could be the issue though, the sound difference being the weight on each axle varying.
Won't be long before I can hear them first hand, inside and out, - that is if they are audible above the much promised whining from posters here - and almost every other passenger.

 

[samuelmorris]

I'll be honest, even from that video I'd declare the 700 quieter than any Electrostar as far as traction noise is concerned - as pointed out, you can clearly tell it's rail noise predominantly present in this video because apart from the fact that it occurs with both powered and unpowered bogies (with the expected slight variances due to the different weight of M / T cars), it's a noise that isn't present in numerous other videos of the stock under AC conditions. Once above maybe 20mph the noise of the traction motors in Bombardier stock is clearly evident but in the video from this thread, I don't hear a thing other than the IGBT drive noise that you get from a stand with modern stock.

Don't get me wrong, the traction motor noise on Electrostars doesn't unduly bother me - I actively seek out the powered vehicles when travelling on them rather than the trailer, but that's mainly to avoid the horrendous bang of the VCB if you sit anywhere near the pantograph. The experience on a Desiro UK appears much more refined - I suspect that's partly due to the much louder A/C system on them, but from the noise produced by loud sections of points and other passing trains, I do genuinely feel like they're better sound-proofed. Based on what people have said so far I anticipate the 700s being similar in that regard, despite the open gangways.

 

[bengley]

That noise is entirely freshly ground rails - nothing to do with the train.

 

[D1009]

Will it be heading all the way up to Cambridge and Peterborough soon then?

Hertford Loop suggests to me ATO/ERTMS testing between Hertford North and Langley Jn.

 

[Class377/5]

Hertford Loop suggests to me ATO/ERTMS testing between Hertford North and Langley Jn.

Been confirmed as ETCS testing.

 

[Minstral25]

Just had my invite to Class 700 launch cancelled on May 10th due to the Strike! New date to be announced..............

 

[Class377/5]

Just had my invite to Class 700 launch cancelled on May 10th due to the Strike! New date to be announced..............

I did wonder if tha was going to happen. Was only a short trip on a 700.

 

[Minstral25]

I did wonder if tha was going to happen. Was only a short trip on a 700.

Yes but I've complained about the useless seats long enough I should try them and confirm even on a short journey. Guess they may enter service now before the launch!

 

[Class377/5]

Yes but I've complained about the useless seats long enough I should try them and confirm even on a short journey. Guess they may enter service now before the launch!

They may do actually! That however might not be a bad thing.

 

[AM9]

They may do actually! That however might not be a bad thing.

Let those who pay travel on them first, - surely not!

 

[trainmania100]

Path in for wednesdays move:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R01043/2016/05/04/advanced

 

[class387]

Does anyone know what this diagram is - could it be linked to the Class 700 introduction?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X48060/2016/05/10/advanced
If not, any updates on when it will happen?

 

[swt_passenger]

Does anyone know what this diagram is - could it be linked to the Class 700 introduction?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X48060/2016/05/10/advanced

Perhaps it's related to the news in posts #3011 and #3012. Right day anyway...

 

[tsr]

Perhaps it's related to the news in posts #3011 and #3012. Right day anyway...

How prestigious, a lunchtime tour of the beautifully-manicured back gardens of deepest South London.

 

[Class377/5]

Perhaps it's related to the news in posts #3011 and #3012. Right day anyway...

Correct and now cancelled.

EDIT:

700004 spotted heading this way.

 

[urpert]

As of today Class 700 stopping points have been installed at Ravensbourne (where they are brand new) and I also spotted them at Sevenoaks.

 

[class387]

Any news on service entry?

 

[MrB]

As of today Class 700 stopping points have been installed at Ravensbourne (where they are brand new) and I also spotted them at Sevenoaks.

I think they've been on all platforms at Sevenoaks for some time now.

 

[samuelmorris]

My first sighting of a 700 'in the flesh' at Blackfriars today, 700109 I believe. The fact that the unit wasn't covered in the muck that most TL stock is caked in probably helped, but I really think the gangway-less front end makes it look much more 21st century than the Electrostars, quite smart indeed. looking forward to travelling on one, but as I typically onlt really use Thameslink in the core I imagine I'll be waiting for a fair while yet...

 

[MML]

I agree the front end looks stylish. But I'm not keen on the inset doors.
I much prefer the plug doors of the Class 377/387 which give a smooth finish and must also help reduce drag. I'm sure someone mentioned they could not be used due to the need to reduced dwell-times.

 

[samuelmorris]

I'd like to see how much they actually managed to cut the dwell times with them, because I rarely see sliding pocket doors close any faster than the plug doors on Networkers. How reliable the latter are, of course, is another matter, but I am a little sceptical about it 'couldn't be done'.

One statistic I was also reminded of today - what sort of dwell times are the 700s specified to achieve when an AC/DC changeover is required? I noticed today a 319 I travelled on managed a sub-30s dwell at Farringdon including the changeover and a unit that was passing through out of service seemed stationary for less than 10 seconds. Comparing that to the Electrostars used on the route, I'm not sure I've seen a changeover done in less than a minute.

 

[Class377/5]

I'd like to see how much they actually managed to cut the dwell times with them, because I rarely see sliding pocket doors close any faster than the plug doors on Networkers. How reliable the latter are, of course, is another matter, but I am a little sceptical about it 'couldn't be done'.

One statistic I was also reminded of today - what sort of dwell times are the 700s specified to achieve when an AC/DC changeover is required? I noticed today a 319 I travelled on managed a sub-30s dwell at Farringdon including the changeover and a unit that was passing through out of service seemed stationary for less than 10 seconds. Comparing that to the Electrostars used on the route, I'm not sure I've seen a changeover done in less than a minute.

The doors are sliding as they fail less. Actual experience shows me that's very true.

As for the voltage changeover, well when the full service is in the ATO will be working and automatically do it as soon as it stops. Don't forget that a 377 has to lower/raise its pan and shoes to complete it's changeover. The 700s, like the 319, only need to do the pan part with shoes fixed.

Changeover dwell times on manual were similar to 319s when I rode through the Core on test trips.

 

[AM9]

The doors are sliding as they fail less. Actual experience shows me that's very true.

Also, if they do fail, sliding doors don't give the 'out of gauge' issues that dead plug doors do. What's more, I think that drag on a 100mph commuter train is not a consideration of door type at the expense of the gains the doors are designed to give.
The class 395s have sliding doors anyway and they are designed to run at 140mph. This plug door thing seems to be a fixation with some posters who compare 25+ year old MKIII stock with current Desiro/Electrostar operation.

 

[swt_passenger]

Also, if they do fail, sliding doors do give the 'out of gauge' issues ...

Did you mean to write "don't" there? Autocorrect strikes?

 

[asylumxl]

Also, if they do fail, sliding doors do give the 'out of gauge' issues that dead plug doors do. What's more, I think that drag on a 100mph commuter train is not a consideration of door type at the expense of the gains the doors are designed to give.
The class 395s have sliding doors anyway and they are designed to run at 140mph anyway. This plug door thing seems to be a fixation with some posters who compare 25+ year old MKIII stock with current Desiro/Electrostar operation.

You're right, the doors won't make much difference at all to drag, since the sides of a train are perpendicular to the direction of travel.